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Understood in the first place, my friend.
Its just that so many seem to read posts and take away, well, I'm not sure.
psst -- It's "utmost"
--Mac Thanx my friend. That'll teach me not to be in a hurry!
Last edited by MarioD; 12/04/13 01:14 PM.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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...I want BiaB to be better NOT to turn into a DAW... Absolutely! It's not supposed to replace my Cubase. However, it could definitely do with a 64 bit rewrite. 64 Bit has been around in Windows since 2001(Windows XP 64-Bit Edition), so we're not talking about " some newfangled thing". So, even though most would probably agree, it is a tool for composing/learning/practice, it still utilizes VST, so (IMHO) it has to be compatible with the future of that environment. It had to move from Atari to PC, it will have to move from 32 Bit to 64 Bit. I think it's just a matter of when not if. Col
WIN 10, BIAB WIN2022, Studio One 5, Audient iD4
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I am disappointed there is no 64 bit version for 2014. That is enough to make me not purchase the new 2014 upgrade
peter gannon - it was revealing for you to ask here what additional advantages are there for 64 bit other than access to RAM? You are in the software business so you knew before you posted - "absolutely none". It teaches how far away we are from 64 bit BIAB - but you also know how problematic are wrappers which are at best a compromise.
Mat - your comment in another thread that no-one had noticed a memory warning during testing of BIAB 2014 beta also teaches us the system specs and requirements of the beta team - again so far away from 64 bit.
Jazzmammal - you have a Kurzweil PC3 with probably 128mb RAM for sample memory. Basic - but enough for you to run 32 bit BIAB and you are happy with this performance. That is ok -it is unfair of you to comment on "stinking VSTi's" and that a 64 bit BIAB version is unnecessary for those who would wish for an alternative solution. If you understood the VSTi suite Mal wishes to use you would understand its fabulous sound which cannot be realised with a 32 bit BIAB- PG Music so far refuses to provide Mal with his desired option.
Jazzmammal - I notice you rubbish any comment from Mal or others about the size of 64 bit BIAB interest yet you deluge us with your own unsubstantiated market size for 32 bit BIAB.
I have several DAWs and many VSTs and VSTis. In no instance can I remember forum traffic asking for a change to 64 bit. It evolved naturally and promptly and in each instance the 64 bit solution was offered as a free upgrade.
I have the choice to use 32 or 64 bit versions of all my music software I continue to purchase upgrades except BIAB.
I choose not to move ahead with BIAB until it moves forward. There are other intelligent music software solutions in the market.
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I choose not to move ahead with BIAB until it moves forward. There are other intelligent music software solutions in the market. No, there isn't. Name one. As to my contention that the number of people who care about 64 bit is small, that cuts both ways. I asked Mal for anything to support his contention that the need for this is "overwhelming". I'll ask you the same thing. But for me here's the biggest issue. Are you satisfied with six or seven instrument tracks? Is that the normal size of your projects? If so fine, I have nothing more to say but, IF you regularly wind up working with 10, 15, 30 tracks then you're not finishing up your project in Biab anyway, you MUST nove it to a regular DAW so it's there that you can use all the VST's you want with all the 64 bit stuff you want. Biab is NOT A DAW it's an AUTOGENERATION PROGRAM to create backing tracks. And, you never heard of the movie Treasure Of The Sierra Madre? The classic line used by a bandit leader about to kill everyone and steal their gold is "Badges, we don't need no stinkin badges!" My line using VST's for badges was a joke that obviously flew right over your head. I completely understand why you and others really want 64 bit. I get that, I really do, I have a pretty nice home studio with tons of software but still most of the time I use hardware but that's just me I also have Studio One, Acid Pro 7, Kontakt, Sampletank and Garritan. The sampling size in my Kurzweil has squat to do with anything, it's the factory patches that are outstanding plus all the onboard controllers on the keyboard itself I can use to shape the sound in real time. I know what you're talking about, all I'm saying strictly from the pov of PGM is it may not be worth it to them to rewrite the code just for that. If they lose a few people like yourself, so be it. Oth, I could be completely full of it and 64 bit is scheduled for the next release. Who knows, I'm just another user like you. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Slow down, Bob, the guy's entitled to his choices.
--Mac
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Guess I need to watch some more classic films. I totally missed that the "badges" reference wasn't from Blazing Saddles. Maybe we do need some steenkin' badges.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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They don't have no badges in Geeeoorgia!
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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It was never my intention to create any friction with my original question.
I rather hoped that it would be a logical and natural progression that the software would be compiled as 64 bit.
Please don't present arguments for or against guys & gals.
I know there is a FOR and AGAINST ..... Peter may or may not go down the 64 bit road. If it happens it would be great. Maybe Real Band only, both would be fantastic.
If the software is as good as I know it is .... and it is, then maybe there are some programmers that would assist with ideas as to how to achieve it.
Mal
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Mal that is a fair statement for sure. I guess in the long run we will just have to wait and see. One thing for sure the new stuff is fun.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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jazzmammal I did mention to you here in 2012 you have a very basic system for testing and you still have so how you could have a useful point of view on Biab 64 bit baffles me!
Re alternatives to BIAB: you must be dumb; just google "Intelligent Music Software" and be prepared to spend a week looking at the alternatives - there are so many. Sure they approach the situation from different perspectives but they are valid
MAC THANK YOU FOR TRYING TO REIGN IN THE ROTTWEILER - BUT IF YOU FAIL I WILL GO HEAD TO HEAD
Mal I apologize - I thought your recruitment of elves, pixies, Santa and reindeer to code 64 bit BIAB 2014 was just great and to get a rebuff that you complained when the 64 bit software we need did not appear was too much for me.
Neil
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Hi neil
I was interested in your point so I googled (I copied and pasted your suggestion). The results were for software that either concentrated on on one instrument...or relied on something like cakewalk etc. Are there others that do the complete job?
I have no axe to grind here. I am only asking the question to find out more.
Den
'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are NOT after you........'
Win 10 , BIAB 2017, and that's all folks !!!
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Hi,
I to have no axe to grind.
Re BIAB - it is the best tool I know for doing "beginning, middle and end" in a millisecond. It is the discipline we need to get the song done. I think 95% of the styles are not the best but that is a personal view. Just committing the song with BIAB is enough. To move forward music skill is needed. However, I need great sound quality even at the exploration stage. I cannot get this with 32 bit BIAB.
Now I mentioned I don't like hanging the software on the end of a hardware synth. In my view, again personal, the sound quality is not great. PG music has provided software alternatives for getting sound out of the program but again, in my opinion these are not great. I don't want lots and lots of Realtracks I would like lots more supermidi. In my part of the World most of the Realtracks would be of no value - you cant give away "Country" -and "Gospel"here. How can this program be so poor at "EDM?"
Now for some years Windows and mac software (I am not an expert in the latter) have evolved to allow larger memory allocation eg from 4Gb to say 64GB but within these domains 32bit BIAB restricts us to 4 GB max.
In my earlier email which included Peter Gannon he responded what does 64 bit do other than extend memory. I replied "absolutely nothing". The real question which he refrained from asking was was "what can you do with BIAB and access to 24, 32 or 64 GB RAM". The answer is almost anything.
I got cross with jazzmammal for his slagging off and rubbishing anything to do with BIAB 64. I was unfair - his music system would work with 32 bit BIAB forever so he has no driver to move towards 64 bit.
However, nowadays there are a lot of us with 64 bit DAWs and large sample libraries - we have been allowed to realise sound quality we could only have dreamed off in the past. Sadly BIAB is 32 bit, which means I have access to 4 GB RAM. 64 bit software allows me to access much larger libraries. I am not asking to change the structure of BIAB just let me access my 5 VSTi slots with 8 - 16 GB of sounds I want to use.i.e don't make it a DAW - just give me 8 - 16GB access
The info we got from Peter and Mat showed 64 bit BIAB is a long way off.
With this in mind I look for an alternative because I look forward to having access to my much higher quality sound libraries that need to be driven in 64 bit.
So I like very much Synfire - I think it is more intelligent musically than BIAB but you cannot press a button and get an instant 5 part song. It does have a way of coping with an 8 part Kontakt sampler as a single instrument rather than launching the same 5 times and it will talk within a 64 bit environment. It costs about the same as BIAB audiophile for download.
Within Cubase 7 and its Chord tracker this ability of Synfire to work in the 64 bit domain using drones is most useful. Like BIAB having Rewire. Notice Steinberg recently hired the complete UK "Finale" team after they were let go by Avid. We can expect major chord/music push button stuff to come within Cubase aka BIAB- all within 64 bit. Actually, even a lower quality BIAB midi file going into Cubase 7.5 is not so bad - but you have to know what you are doing to make it better.
I have been with BIAB since the beginning of time (but quiet on the forum) - I worry that BIAB becomes "Blackberry" and whereas they saw no future for the touchscreen BIAB underestimates that many have moved their sound quality forward.
Sorry this is a book and I planned not to revisit until next December 2014 to see if the program moves forward,
Neil
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Hi I just tried this with 2014 and it still works fine. http://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htmvsthost/slave Then load the 32bit LegreeI.dll into BIAB 32bit BIAB controlling 64bit vsti You can do routing in VSTHost, or you can run multiple instances of it, one for each instrument in BIAB Works here, YMMV. There are other good reasons to use VSTHost, it is a good lightweight DAW that seems to work with just about any vsti. I may care more about 64bit BIAB when Sampletank 64bit is released and PGMusic includes a free version 
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I don't think BIAB is in any danger of falling by the wayside. I'm fairly certain that thousands of us still use BIAB for what we got it for in the first place; Auto-Accompaniment on gigs. I've been using BIAB since 1995 on live gigs. It made solo gigs less boring. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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jazzmammal I did mention to you here in 2012 you have a very basic system for testing and you still have so how you could have a useful point of view on Biab 64 bit baffles me! Dude, now I know. You're running your mouth off and have no clue at all. I'm running Win 7 64 bit using a black box AMD Phenom six core processor. My Geekbench score is 7450. Not as high as a hotrodded i7 but it's sure as hell not a basic system. I knew you were full of it when you said my PC3 only has 128mb of memory and now this confirms it. First of all I didn't say I had a PC3K did I? You're an idiot. The K has the sampling mine doesn't and I don't need it. Oh and now you want Biab to concentrate on EDM? I think Ableton Live has that market pretty well locked up, but still they did come out with some decent Euro dance Real Tracks last year but for real EDM they won't compete with Abelton. EDM is all about you as the DJ creating beatz, rhythms, dubstep warbles and synth lines live in front of a crowd at a dance party. Abelton Live is perfect for that and Biab definitely isn't. That's why Abelton is called, ummm...LIVE. If you've had Biab for years then you already know how it works and that isn't it. Buy Ableton along with their new Push controller and live long and prosper. Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 12/18/13 12:46 AM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Now I mentioned I don't like hanging the software on the end of a hardware synth. In my view, again personal, the sound quality is not great. PG music has provided software alternatives for getting sound out of the program but again, in my opinion these are not great. I don't want lots and lots of Realtracks I would like lots more supermidi. In my part of the World most of the Realtracks would be of no value - you cant give away "Country" -and "Gospel"here. How can this program be so poor at "EDM?"
Neil1000, It's great to hear from you as we have some points of view in common. I agree that BIAB is heavily slanted towards jazz and pop music. I dispute that BIAB is poor at EDM (electronic dance music, for those who don't know). In fact, I would say that it could be superb for this; there just isn't much programming (read: Styles) for it. Listen to some of the so-called "Electro" Styles and see whether you agree. Even through a basic GM synth some of these sound pretty amazing. There isn't much here for us electronic types--but there could be. I have asked for years for more New Age, Ambient, and Electro Styles. The great news for us MIDI-philes is that the old sorcery of BIAB, the Stylemaker, is still there and still works great. For anyone willing to invest time in learning and programming the rewards could be great. Of course, I would rather have some or most of it done for me by the collective genius of PG Music. The whole idea of BIAB, for me anyway, was to not have to do that programming. Nevertheless, I think of BIAB as a giant multitrack sequencer. Alas, the site where I used to post my music no longer hosts it, or I would point you to a few examples of what I have done with BIAB GM files ported into Propellerhead Reason, which serves as a massive soft synth (and is now a complete DAW). Neil, I hope you read this and respond. Perhaps we should start a new discussion so as not to get buried in this ongoing 64-bit thread. At the very least I hope you will make your wants known in the Styles MIDI Wishlist. Carry on, Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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...Notice Steinberg recently hired the complete UK "Finale" team after they were let go by Avid....We can expect major chord/music push button stuff to come within Cubase aka BIAB- all within 64 bit... Actually, Steinberg hired core Sibelius designers and programmers when Avid down sized; and Cubase users that need robust scoring capabilities are likely to see better scoring features in future releases. And for those folks that want to leverage BiaB to frame a song, then continue exploration accessing VST2 x64 softsynth plug-ins(not VST3 as far as I know), buying Finale is a good option to consider. The Finale team has integrated the BiaB harmonization technology into the Finale package. Easy enough to drag-and-drop a BB/RB MIDI file into Finale.
Cheers, Mike.
BiaB 2022 UltraPak, Cubase Pro 11, Ableton Live 11, NI Komplete 13 Ultimate.
Yamaha P515, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Tyros 5, Komplete Kontrol S49 MKII, Maschine MKII.
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. . . The Finale team has integrated the BiaB harmonization technology into the Finale package. Easy enough to drag-and-drop a BB/RB MIDI file into Finale. ???? Please say more. R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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. . . The Finale team has integrated the BiaB harmonization technology into the Finale package. Easy enough to drag-and-drop a BB/RB MIDI file into Finale. ???? Please say more. R. Hi Ryszard. Here are a few links you might want to scan 1. Finale Features2. Band in a Box Auto Harmonizing Plug_in3. Other Scoring and Arranging Plug-ins 4. Finale 30 day free trial My take: Finale may be a good choice for a composer /arranger who likes working in "notation mode", wants to see the full page of the arrangement, wants to use x64 VST2 sounds and would find generating initial harmonies based on a given melody line and chords during composition useful. Note that I had identified Finale as a possible "phase two" tool when putting together my kit. However, now that I'm into six months of working with the MOX, BB/RB, Cubase and Reason (after over 30 years hiatus from composing and gigging) - find I don't need Finale as my workflow suits my wants. Happy Holidays.
Last edited by MotleyFool; 12/21/13 10:25 AM.
Cheers, Mike.
BiaB 2022 UltraPak, Cubase Pro 11, Ableton Live 11, NI Komplete 13 Ultimate.
Yamaha P515, Yamaha MODX6, Yamaha Tyros 5, Komplete Kontrol S49 MKII, Maschine MKII.
Windows 10 Pro, i7, 32GB RAM, 3TB SSD.
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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