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Ok, I've worked with RB for a few weeks now and and getting a pretty good handle on how the program works and some of the amazing things it can do, and am in various stages of completing several songs using it.
Now I want to record some midi tracks using a midi controller attached to my computer via usb (using a Novation Remote 25SL Compact). Drivers are installed and show up in RB. When I load a pre-recorded midi song into RB and click on one of its midi tracks I'm assuming I should be able to "play" the midi instrument already assigned to that track with the external controller. But all I get is an accoustic piano voice no matter which track I highlight (each track is assigned a different DXi midi instrument, assigned to a different midi channel).
However, when I close RB, then open Sonar and load the same midi file, I can highlight an individual track in Sonar and hear the individual midi instruments when I play keys on the external controller.
The midi drivers in both RB and Sonar are set up as follows: Midi In: Remote SL Compact Midi Out: Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth (re-route to DXi VSTi synth for RB). Both programs are set to use MME for audio.
Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong?
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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RealBand
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Quote:
Any suggestions ?
Hi. Read up on "Midi Thru" and play with the settings. Also, since you're using a DXi (which one?), deselect that MS Wavetable - I think others have reported issues with it. BTW, the MME driver may cause latency. You didn't mention the sound card, but you might try ASIO if it has the driver. Incidentally, the midi monitor can be helpful for troubleshooting stuff like this.
Post back if none of this helps.
hth, Ron
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RealBand
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On my rig, the VSC DXi won't play in realtime in RB or PT unless:
1) I use ASIO drivers and not MME
2) The program is set to "ASIO Always On"
3) "Enable Input Monitoring" is set to True (checked)
All of the above are found in Preferences -> Audio
--Mac
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RealBand
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Yeah, Mac's probably nailed it. This FAQ should help. Read FAQ 128 as well. My comment was relevant to the MME driver, but I had it backwards. For a DXi synth, the thru setting should be disabled. If still no sound (with MME), check the DXi interface itself to make sure it's being triggered and channel volumes are not zeroed/muted. Post back if none of this stuff works. -Ron
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RealBand
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Mac and Ron, thanks for your replies. I am going to check everything out that both of you have suggested here because I really want to get this thing working right.
Ron you are correct in that MME seems to introduce unacceptable latency. But so far it's the only one that I've been able to use and still get sound out of RB. I've tried some ASIO drivers but have had trouble. When selecting/highlighting them, sometimes RB will just crash. Then I'll reopen the program and try again and they will "take", but none of the ASIO drivers allows me to get playback sound from RB, only with the MME driver. Here is what shows up in Audio Settings for ASIO selections:
ASIO DirectX Full Duplex
ASIO Multimedia
ASIO4ALL v2
input: (0,1) Realtek HD Audio output: (0,1) Realtek HDA SPDIF Out1 & ....
As for MIDI, I have the following output selections:
Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth
Microsoft Midi Mapper
(I have the "Reroute Midi Playback to Default DXi/VSTi Synth" checked, and the default = VSC DXi)
Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I was under the impression that you have to select/highlight one of the other output selections (Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth or Microsoft Midi Mapper) first so that midi data would get re-routed from there to the "checked" DXi/VSTI synth. Is this wrong? Anyway, I get no playback sound at all if I don't select one of the output choices such as the " Microsoft GS" one first. If I make no selections there and just check the "Reroute to DXi" option, I get no playback sound at all.
Anyway, I really appreciate the time you guys take to help newcomers such as myself. It really is a great program overall and will be very useful to me once I can get it operating correctly. Thanks so much.
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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Sounds like there is some kind of problem going on between your built in soundcard's drivers and the ASIO4ALL drivers, which work very well with these programs on the XP built in soundcards.
Maybe your solve will involve the purchase and installation of a good aftermarket soundcard that not only has ASIO drivers well written for Vista, but surely will have better hardware in the form of converters and analog sound circuitry. A win-win, actually.
--Mac
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Mac, do you have any recommendations for a good sound card suitable for laptop use?
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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Buddy of mine is now getting great results from his Vista driven Toshiba laptop and the M-Audio Fast Track USB I say, "now" because we had a few sessions over the long distance telephone before getting things to work well with the system and the laptop. He even called Toshiba support a couple of times at one point, but didn't get to the bottom of things until he called me. And that took time, several calls, with him doing tweaks and such and trying again to get it all up and running with BIAB and PT. But now its doing great, judging from some of the soundfiles he's sent. He's also using a Ketron SD2 Orchestral Wizard for his MIDI sounds, raves about it. --Mac
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Terry, First, my apologies for posting advice without fully testing it first, or for trusting my memory.  Second, I can confirm that Mac's three steps work for me - and you need them all - when there are no overriding issues. By "overriding issues" I mean the total mess I made of my RB configuration in trying to troubleshoot this. In changing ASIO drivers, something got screwed up, and all I could get was very distorted sound. Even after I fixed that (see below), I found this: on bringing up RB where ASIO4ALL is the driver, midi signals were not received from the external controller. When I switched to my other ASIO driver, they were, and when I switched back to ASIO4ALL, they were now received (as measured with the midi monitor and keyboard at top of main screen; ie. sequencer not running.) I have two ASIO drivers. ASIO4ALL I use with my orig (SB) soundcard and the Cakewalk TTS-1 for desktop noodling. For concentrated work, I use my MAudio 2496 card and its dedicated ASIO driver with a hardware synth/controller. So I don't normally use the DXi in real time, and hence was giving advice I hadn't tested. When I did try to test it, at some point in the process of switching between ASIO drivers, I really messed up the RB installation, and could get nothing but distorted sound. (Another indication of a problem was that in the MIDI devices window, the pulldown menu for the default DXi/VST device was empty.) Windows (XP) showed that there were several files that had been modified in the session, and after I replaced them from a backup, the sound was ok again. On switching ASIO drivers again later, I got an access violation followed by the blue screen of death. On restarting, RB gave me the option of restoring to defaults, which I accepted (more on this below), and it's been ok since. Quote:
Ron you are correct in that MME seems to introduce unacceptable latency. But so far it's the only one that I've been able to use and still get sound out of RB. I've tried some ASIO drivers but have had trouble. When selecting/highlighting them, sometimes RB will just crash. Then I'll reopen the program and try again and they will "take", but none of the ASIO drivers allows me to get playback sound from RB, only with the MME driver. Here is what shows up in Audio Settings for ASIO selections:
ASIO DirectX Full Duplex
ASIO Multimedia
ASIO4ALL v2
input: (0,1) Realtek HD Audio output: (0,1) Realtek HDA SPDIF Out1 & ....
Ok, the fact that you've got three ASIO drivers and had crashes, coupled with my own feeling that there's some ASIO-related instability in this build - especially when switching drivers, tempts me to postulate that you (as I did) may have a corrupted configuration file.
Here's a suggestion (which I've only indirectly tested by virtue of my own crash. This suggestion should not remove any of your data files, but make suitable backups to be safe.): Run RB and minimize it. Use WIN file explorer to locate in the RB directory a file called PT_Is_Running.Txt. Copy it to an out of the way directory. (It's a simple text file that apparently signals RB on startup that it had crashed on previous closure.) Close RB and copy that textfile back into the RB directory. Start RB. This should force it to give the option to restore to factory defaults (BB has a menu option for this). Accept the option. Now configure for the ASIO driver associated with that Realtek card, make sure Mac's items 2 and 3 are enabled - MIDI thru needs to be enabled also - and see if the original problem is solved.
Quote:
As for MIDI.... I was under the impression that you have to select/highlight one of the other output selections (Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth or Microsoft Midi Mapper) first so that midi data would get re-routed from there to the "checked" DXi/VSTI synth. Is this wrong?
Probably not. Again, my apologies for a misleading post.
I'd appreciate hearing if the above suggestion works.
Good luck, Ron
EDIT - This post crosses some stuff you guys just posted.
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RealBand
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There is no ASIO driver associated with the onboard Realtek audio. They are WDM only.
But the ASIO4ALL program serves as a "wrapper" that allows one to run ASIO on a soundcard like that one.
You don't have to go to all the trouble above to reset RB or PT to factory settings.
Simply close down the program completely first (Exit) and then locate the following two files in the PT or RB folder and delete them:
For RealBand:
rb.ini.
This file contains most of the global PowerTracks settings, especially the settings in the Options | Preferences and Options | MIDI Devices dialogs. It also has a list of the most recently accessed song files.
rb.cfg
This file contains information about your sound card
For PTW:
ptw.ini.
This file contains most of the global PowerTracks settings, especially the settings in the Options | Preferences and Options | MIDI Devices dialogs. It also has a list of the most recently accessed song files.
ptpa.cfg
This file contains information about your sound card
Then simply restart the programs. You should be greeted by the same MIDI/Soundcard Wizard you had when the program was first installed, it will guide you through the selection process. This may be all that need be done to get the ASIO running at that end, as sometimes all the ducks just aren't in a row in these volatile files.
Incidentally, I do the above as a matter of course whenever there is a crash or freeze or the like in the programs because if they do that, there isn't time for the program to write to these two critical files properly. The files become corrupted.
--Mac
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Quote:
For RealBand:
rb.ini.
...
rb.cfg
Yup, those are among the files I'd replaced manually after my first problem. (The .ini file is actually "RealBand.ini".) By storing that trigger text file and simply inserting it into the RB directory after a malfunction, I figure it's a simple "return to factory" procedure. But whatever works.
Quote:
Incidentally, I do the above as a matter of course whenever there is a crash or freeze or the like in the programs because if they do that, there isn't time for the program to write to these two critical files properly. The files become corrupted.
Good to know, Mac. (Here's where more robust error recovery in the RB code could help.) -Ron
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Ron and Mac, thanks for your replies. I'm making some progress. One of the things I was wondering about was how to get a reset to RB's original settings, and you've answered that for me. Also I tried Mac's 3 settings and I am now able to get both playback and realtime sound generation using ASIO, although only with the "ASIO DirectX Full Duplex" driver. I'm not even sure where this driver came from. The latency is still very bad with realtime input, however, and it certainly would not be adequate for serious realtime midi recording. The latency thing is new to me as I have not been involved in computer-based recording before, and it's frustrating. I thought that using a DXi synth, combined with an ASIO driver, would make it acceptable, but so far not. Any suggestions on the latency issue?
Seems I should be able to use ASIO4ALL, and I can get it to install, but I get no sound with it. After installed, when I click on the "ASIO Drivers Control Panel" in the Drivers window, I get a pop-up RB-generated message saying: "Audio and/or DXi Output will be silent - the ASIO4ALL driver is not connected; likely due to your using a soft-synth (like GS-Wavetable) for MIDI".
When I then try to play back a midi sequenced song, I can see by the VU meters that there is sound output happening, but I hear nothing. I get another pop-up RB-generated message saying: "Note: ASIO4ALL is not able to output sound - This usually means it can't do so at the same time as your MIDI driver, so you likely need to choose another MIDI driver to get ASIO4ALL working, and then reboot machine". So I try doing that, and still get no sound.
Maybe, as Mac says, I'll have to acquire a suitable usb sound card in order to get things working properly.
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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Quote:
Seems I should be able to use ASIO4ALL, and I can get it to install, but I get no sound with it. After installed, when I click on the "ASIO Drivers Control Panel" in the Drivers window, I get a pop-up RB-generated message saying: "Audio and/or DXi Output will be silent - the ASIO4ALL driver is not connected; likely due to your using a soft-synth (like GS-Wavetable) for MIDI".
Terry, when you click on that button, it should bring up a window that looks like the one shown on this page. It's a driver function, not generated by RB - also accessible from Start=>Programs=ASIO4ALL menu. If you're truly getting an RB generated error msg, try getting to that ASIO4ALL control panel with RB shut down. You should see your sound card in the left pane. It should be highlighted in green, indicating a running status. If not, select it to confer running status. Then hit the advanced button and you'll find some parameters to play with, including latency and buffer size adjustments. Once your card shows with the green highlight, try accessing the panel again from within RB and see if it works now. If you still get an error msg, all I can think is to reset RB to factory, then repeat the ASIO4ALL control panel dance *before* enabling the softsynth and without touching the other ASIO drivers (ie. don't give them a chance to corrupt a configuration file.) An even more drastic thing (short of new hardware ) might be to uninstall the other ASIO drivers, especially if you don't use them for anything else. My two coexist fine in XP, but maybe multiple installations confuse some apps in some environments.
BTW, a trivial thing, but when you see vu meters going but no sound, check to make sure the Windows midi synth volume control hasn't been zeroed. One or two apps have been reported to cause that.
HTH, -Ron
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Incidentally, this thread might help. And others available by googling Realtek and ASIO. -Ron
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Lurking the thread link provided above and found this: Quote:
I ran into the same issue, and here is what happens on my Vista machine: Whatever device is selected as your default device at the time you log in is always listed as unavailable in asio4all even if you switch it to a different default output device. So what I did was changed my default output device to something that I don't care to use with the ASIO for this session, log off (no need to reboot) and log back on. Voila, my Realtek HD primary output is available to ASIO. You can then even change the default output back, as asio4all still reports the other device as unavailable.
I don't know if this is a bug or just an eccentricity of trying to get it working with Vista, but finding this workaround let me use my new Behringer iAxe with Vista x64. Thanks so much for this utility!
Sound a bit familiar...
--Mac
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Wow, ok guys, this is all sounding logical and may get me where I need to go. I'm at work right now, but will try this stuff when I get home. Thank you.
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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Success! Sort of anyway. After reading some of the threads you guys pointed me to and fiddling around with the driver settings, I was able to get playback sound with ASIO4ALL for the first time. I was also able to record and play back realtime midi input from an external usb keyboard, and the best part is that the latency going in was almost non-existent - certainly very workable. Apparently the Realtek soundcard wants to default to spdif digital outputs. Disabling those forced the sound to the analog outputs.
It's still quite quirky, with occasional crashes and such, but now that I know how to reset RB by deleting the 2 files you pointed out, I'm able to redo the setup so that I can get it working again. Again after reading some of the threads, I think a more permanent solution would have been to get an updated version of the Realtek HD Audio driver, but I downloaded Vista versions from both the Realtek site and from Lenovo and even after following installation instructions both failed to install, so I had to revert back to the original driver to get sound back.
I'll keep playing with it to see if I can get consistent performance. Once again, a big thanks to Ron and Mac for helping me through a very frustrating process.
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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Good going, glad to hear it! One other thing - the latest ASIO4ALL version I think is up to 2.9. I haven't upgraded in several revisions, on the "ain't broke" principle. But as you're learning it now, and using Vista, you may want to try the latest. (Let us know if you find it works.)
Good luck, -Ron
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Quote:
I downloaded Vista versions from both the Realtek site and from Lenovo and even after following installation instructions both failed to install, so I had to revert back to the original driver to get sound back.
Something is wrong in there somehow.
*Are those driver updates .exe files?
*Did you completely close down any programs that would be using or capturing the sound card before attempting to update the driver?
IF all esle fails, try contacting Lenovo Support on that issue...
--Mac
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Yes, I think I'll try snagging the latest ASIO4ALL version and giving that a try.
As for attempting to install the Realtek updated driver, I believe I had the relevant programs closed, but maybe I'll try it again tonight. The Realtek driver update file was an .exe file - is that what it is supposed to be?
Thanks,
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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