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I have had a Yamaha P200 for over ten years and love it's "Graded Hammer" touch. I now need a keyboard for our winter home in Florida but it has to be 76 keys to fit in the trailer. I don't need a built-in synth - just a good piano sound and a piano feel - I have a sound module for BIAB. I have spotted the Kurzweil SP2 and SP4-7 which have "semi weighted" keys. I don't know what that really means and haven't been able to find one near Tampa to try.
Any suggestions for a 76 keyboard with weighted keys?
Thanks
Tony
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Tony,
I'm not a keyboard player, but I do have a Yamaha piano I bought for son that has "weighted" keys. There are 3 settings. The 1st setting is little to no resistance. The 2nd offers some resistance. The 3rd setting feels like a regular piano.
Hope this helps.
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Quote:
I have spotted the Kurzweil SP2 and SP4-7 which have "semi weighted" keys. I don't know what that really means and haven't been able to find one near Tampa to try.
"Semi-weighted" refers to a method that uses electronics to make the organ-style keyboard respond much like it would with truly weighted keys. There are typically several to many settings available in the menus of the instrument to allow you to select different weighting curves, which basically change the Velocity curve of the struck note. This method does not change the keybed itself, but is remarkably good at changing the way it "feels" when played.
The Kurzweil system is pretty darn good at what it does, I still use a rather long in the tooth SP-88, whioh has the same keybed as the ones mentioned, which are newer. I kind of like that method, actually, as even when the Keyboard Touch menu item is set to respond as a rather "hard" piano, the keys themselves are still light in response (although you do have to strike them harder to get a note) and that method allows for much less hand and wrist fatigue on the long sessions.
I've never quite understood what the fascination for having the MIDI keyboard's keys be physically weighted and mushy like the acoustic piano. I have always found it quite easy to adapt to these electronically weighted keyboards, matter of fact, I generally find them *easier* to play, actually, and have no problems with them sounding like a Piano when they are set to play a piano patch. Besides that, there is the other side to that coin, which is when you play instrument patches other than Piano - playing an organ or strings patch on a physically weighted keyboard bed can turn it into a chore that is not desirable IMO.
The Kurzweil keyboards are really good value IMHO.
--Mac
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Thanks Mac for your explanation of semi-weighted. I had naively assumed that it meant simply less physical weight is added to the keys than a fully weighted key.
I actually bought a Casio WK500 thinking that I could get used to the light touch. It has a "hard" setting which makes a small difference to the feel but I just cannot play the thing as a piano without sounding wrong notes. There also isn't much velocity difference between a light or heavy stroke. Am I right in assuming that the Kurzweil electronic key weighting system will be much better than the Casio?
Thanks
Tony
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That's really funny...!!!OMG...CSL!!
I've a PS-60, which is light....so light I let my Jack Russells lug it out to the truck!!
I've also got an 88-key G-1000 (Roland)...that's right, it weights 1,000 pounds!
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.
Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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Quote:
Thanks Mac for your explanation of semi-weighted. I had naively assumed that it meant simply less physical weight is added to the keys than a fully weighted key.
I actually bought a Casio WK500 thinking that I could get used to the light touch. It has a "hard" setting which makes a small difference to the feel but I just cannot play the thing as a piano without sounding wrong notes. There also isn't much velocity difference between a light or heavy stroke. Am I right in assuming that the Kurzweil electronic key weighting system will be much better than the Casio?
Thanks
Tony
First of all, I would have to say that the use of any key weighting of any kind as a crutch to prevent the playing of wrong notes isn't what the key weighting is supposed to be for in the first place. The real answer to that problem is to practice, practice, practice, until you have mastered NOT playing like that. The Hanon, Czerny, the Schmidt studies will build that, plus hand strength and understanding of the most widely used patterns, as well.
I've played the Casio W500 and do not find that I am any less accurate than I am on any piano, even the full on acoustic pianos. Of course, my goal has always been to be able to play as accurately as Oscar Peterson did, or Monty Alexander does. With me, some days are better than others *grin*.
But seriously, a player of *any* instrument should not be selecting the instrument based on a bad playing habit, looking for one particular machine that may mask that problem - chances are it won't and you will only be fooling yourself - and you would end up being quite the one trick pony. "I can play that, but not on THIS piano!"
It was not all that long ago when the Pianist did not portage their own particular instrument from gig to gig, but relied on the once ubiquitous "house piano" found in almost every venue. The first thing we would do upon entering a new house would be to sit down and get to know that piano. Each was a slightly different situation, some were worse than others, but your job is to be able to wring the most out of it regardless.
Anyway, a few weeks or months of practicing your scale fingerings, your block chord grabs, plus your repertoire should straighten out any problems such as you cite and the great thing about doing it that way is that once you concquer such, you will possess it FOR LIFE.
If it was me, I'd intentionally play only on that Casio W500 when practicing, or another keyboard that accentuated my problem, with the goal being to *eliminate* whatever was causing the problem.
One more thing: You should do whatever it takes to find an example of any keyboard you are thinking about buying and get there where it is set up and TRY IT OUT. Don't assume anything.
--Mac
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Mac, you are renowned for your your technical knowledge about BIAB and all things things musical but please don't preach at me.
I am 68 years old and play simply for my own amusement. I love playing my Yamaha P200 and struggle with the the Casio WK500. If that makes me a "one trick pony" then I guess I will have to live with it. I have more important things to do in my retirement than "practice, practice, practice" on an instrument that I don't like. I am no masocist and can afford a keyboard that suites my playing so thanks for you first reply where you answered my specific question.
Regards
Tony
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Not "preaching" - just tellin' it like I've found it to be in an effort to help.
Of course, many times is the case that the medium, the printed page, plus the forum platform, makes things appear to be different than intended by the poster. My intent was not to do anything other than help out, based on my own experiences.
I'm 60 this year.
One thing that I've been finding out is that this old dog can still learn the new trick, it just takes a longer time in the woodshed. Sometimes it is due to age, most times I think it is really due to the fact that certain bad habits I've picked up have been around for a long time and it simply takes more time for the brain and the muscle memory to drop a bad habit for a good one.
I hope this clarifies things a bit, as I really don't like contension such as that.
--Mac
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Hi Mac!
I have a Yam DGX kbdd that I really like. It is non-weighted. I find that I have difficulty giving different touches to different notes. If the melody is in the right and the chords in the left I can play lighter with my whole left hand, but if the right has melody and other notes, they all get the same volume and the melody does not stand out so much. When I play a box piano it is much easier to give different weights to different notes.
Am I copping out? Leaning on my crutch? Making excuses?
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>>>....practicing your scale fingerings, your block chord grabs, plus...>>>
Hi Mac!
Whats a good method for practicing chord grabs?
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You might look into adjusting the touch sensitivity. I don't know about the dgx but I have a yamaha psr 740 and it has adjustable touch sensitivity and that can really help toward being able to make certain notes stand out or hide etc.....Hope that helps:)
...........Jeff......
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Quote:
Whats a good method for practicing chord grabs?
Doing it over and over ...
I like to write random chord progressions down before practice, then sit down and find the inversions of those chords, and practice them. Keep them for the next day, and add a new set each day. May end up with the added bonus of stumbling onto a song .. which happens often here. I'll be practicing and realize if I change a chord or two I'm on to something.
But I'm still practicing. Doing it over and over.
Last edited by rharv; 03/19/11 09:47 AM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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First, I've never met a Yamaha electric keyboard where I liked the default touch sensitivity setting. Usually I find that I have to notch it up at least one level, making it LEss sensitive than stock.
As for practicing the LH/RH in order to get one to play with a softer or harder attack than the other, I have found that practicing the Hanon and intentionally placing my own dynamics during practice sessions can work wonders along that front. For example, I will try to play the LH softer than the RH throughout, or vice verse. For starters.
One thing about practice that I swear by - the art of practicing is best done when you SLOW TEMPOS DOWN. To the speed where you can handle the excercise without generting mistakes. Also, play evenly at that lowered tempo, even if you must use the metronome to do so. The secret to playing something at tempo lies in beng able to play it perfectly at lower tempo. The speed will take care of itself.
As for the block chord practice, BiaB accompaniment parts, as generated, can represent some great things to do with the LH in various different genres and styles, at first try playing only the LH parts there, again with the lowered tempo and BB is a dream come true for playing and practicing in meter as the program itself is a wonderful metronome. And don't overlook the fact that we can invoke the metronome at playback as well, great for making good and sure you know where every beat lies in those practice sessions.
Finally, practicing Boogie piano stuff can really build the LH and is fun as well. The PGMusic Blues Pianist has some great stuff in it for LH practice along these lines.
--Mac
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Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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May I suggest that its more than the physical function of the piano here, and more than the velocity curves, its also about the quality of the sampling and layering.
Have you considered buying a keyboard and piano software seperately?
Layering means how many sounds are mapped to each single key - i.e. ppp,pp. p. mp. f,ff,fff etc. There are 128 posdsible mappings in MIDI but many pianos dont use them all. Each sound must be accurately recorded, it must accurately represent the dynamic notes intended (i.e. pp) it must have a pleasing and consistent degree of ambience
The "feel" of a keyboard is also about the dynamic range of the keyboard
I have had a lot of piano software and the one that beats all for me hands down is TruePianos Diamond - which is on a free download for 40 days. Because the TruePiano is NOT a sampled Piano it has several advantages, firstly it is a lot smaller in mgbyte terms and does not hog RAM, secondly it is more flexible in terms of settings. Its very realistic - check it out.
Another piano is Ivory. This is a sampled piano and is highly rated by pianists - I dont own this one.
IMO (only in IMO) Yamaha pianos, especially the PSR type pianos are not really fit to play as they come out of the box their pro range is probably a lot better of course. A good semiweighted keyboard is the Axiom - its as good as my NORD.
So, by all means get a good keyboard, get the right velocity set up too, but dont forget the piano sampling.
Zero
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Yep...you get whacha pay for.... Love my PA-60 when it "hides" in the same keyboard rack with my Motif ES-8... of course i've also got my Yamaho CS6X down there too. Two 76ers and a beaut of an 88 Keyer.... As beautiful as that desktop background of the classy blond-on-the-black-leather-couch the one that "greets" my "wondering eyes" each time I flip on the my Windoze! 
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.
Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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