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Joined: Apr 2004
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 161 |
Hi, I'm a big fan of band in a box and recently showed the program to another musician when she visited me. I thought that she would be really impressed but I ended up sorry that I mentioned it to her at all. It came across that she thought she was far too professional to consider using the program and that band in a box is for lesser capable musicians than herself, amateur musicians like me in fact  I know everyone’s opinion is different and she is perfectly entitled to hers, just wondering has anyone else has this reaction to band in a box too? Regards Jan
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Absolutely. I've had that reaction several times from good friends who are superb musicians. One deigned to jam with me one evening using the jukebox. He did like the lead sheets, but felt like it was too "cookie cutter." I thought that out of all my acquaintances, he'd see the possibilities.
I showed it to one friend who is partially handicapped; he only has limited use of his right hand. He claimed to be impressed, but said he'd keep doing it his way--step programming in Reason. (Can't argue with his results; look up "Dream Level 7" or "DL7" on Facebook and myspace.)
Now when I play one of my pieces and one of them asks, "Who did the drums?" I just smile . . .
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
... just wondering has anyone else has this reaction to band in a box too?
Definitely.
Professional music is very much between the lines and dots on sheetmusic. While RealTracks do make considerable progress towards 'real music', there seems to be a whole universe between what the program may provide and what real musicians do hear and strive for. As much as I value BiaB as an amateur aficionado, I did have pros look askance at BiaB ...
Martin
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Yeah, I get that a lot. I often don't tell people that I use BiaB. I just let them hear the results and be impressed.
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Isn't it amazing how if they don't know, they love the results, but as soon as they find out, it's like, "Oh!, that's not music!" or "that's cheating", and all of a sudden what they loved a minute ago becomes crap.
No bias there, huh?
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 708 |
I think it is inevitable that BIAB will not appeal to many professional muscians who will find it too constricting and they may not be heavily into electronics.
I also believe that PG are making a mistake in not trying harder to appeal more to beginner and amatuer muscians, like myself. The average BIAB enthusiast, at least on this forum, is a musical geek who revels in the technical side of electronic music and embraces every BIAB technical improvement. This means that BIAB gets more and more complex every year and looks terrifying to the average beginner/amatuer.
Most wanna-be musicians are amazed at what BIAB can do when I demonstrate the basic accompanyment feature while playing the melody one-finger on my keyboard. When I show what else the program can do their eyes glaze over. I think there is a strong case for a MIDI-only BIAB-Lite version that is specifically marketed towards beginners. It's not enough to simply say that you can ignore the features you don't want.
Tony
Last edited by Tony Wright; 09/08/11 06:47 AM.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 973 |
Well I have to agree with Tony.
I lost track of BIAB when Real Band was introduced.
I have no problem using Sonar X1C as my DAW,and I even have Pro Tools
on my computer which is excellent but,when it comes to BIAB I must admit I don't know
where to start.
The learning curve is so steep now that sometimes it's easier to give up
and go back to the other way of doing things,like playing it all myself.
Don't get me wrong,the programme is excellent,but for me it's just a bit
overwhelming,and that equals frustrating.
Alan
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I have noticed that the first impression of BiaB is almost always as described by the OP when the program is presented to working musicians.
Musicians are a funny lot.
First they proclaim they are liberal-minded and open to ideas that the rest of humanity will not accept.
Then, they use that standpoint to grant themselves license to be some of the most close-minded folks on the planet.
That said, I think that the first look at BiaB is met with resistance simply because of the way we are built as human beings, which is that we have a tendency to be hardwired to resist change.
On the brighter side, time heals all wounds. I have lived to see the same musicians who panned BiaB at one time come to me and pay me money to make backing tracks for them to play a certain performance, and I often do that with BiaB as the basis. Particularly true of musicians hired to play at trade shows and the like. Once the ice was broken ("Hey man, where did you get those dynamite backing tracks?"), their once loudly proclaimed antagony towards the program diminishes. Slightly. Many do not wish to become BiaB operators or users in their own right, but have at least succumbed to the new paradigm - when it means mo' money in their pockets. Me own wee liddle brudder is an example of what I'm talkin' about here *grin*. He is now endorsing Yanagisawa(Selmer) saxes. I'm certain that his NAMM show presentations for a lesser firm, using my backing racks made in BiaB, had some input towards making that move upwards. Not that his playing abilities could not have done so on their own, for they certainly can. I'm talking enhancement, though.
--Mac
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I use both BiaB, and RB, i also use Sonar X1c Essentials as a polisher. I find that some of my friends, frown on it, but others are amazed. I know they think i cheat, but wow none of them are churning out any music. I had a younger friend over the the other day, and he was amazed at how fast i could knock out a solid drum and bass backing track. He played all the guitars, and while he did okay, it was a bit rough around the edges for what i could have done in RB. I played him a couple of my current projects and he was suprised. Still he and his younger peers like to pound out a song on a paltop with live drums and all live instruments, but i have to say they end result is not as good as mine.
They go for far more of a "now" sound, and RTs don't really give that.
I think if one is a absolute recording pro, they can get very good results with all live instruments, and if they have the latest and greatest equipment they can get a solid clean and polished song out of it. I remember a few years back i was reading an article about a recording artist from the 60s who was starting a new solo Cd project, as he had not released one for a while. He was already into the project somewhere near $10,000, and only had two songs partially done. He stopped by a music store, and picked up a DAW package, and a interface, went home and installed on his laptop, and knocked out the rest of the project in his small studio.
Most folks do not play every instrument, and therefore need others artist to handle the ones they are not solid on. Maybe they do not need BiaB/RB, but hey i play guitar, and bass, and i can add a lot to the song with RB. I could go back to step sequencing on my DAW, or using Reason, or Fruity loops, but that is not live either, and how is that any better, or less cheating tham BiaB? It is just another tool.
If folks turn up their noses at it, fine, let them do it the hard way. If someone does not want to dig in and learn the new ways, the industry will slowly leave them behind. We live in a tech world, we either join it or watch it. I don't think BiaB needs to be aimed lower and beginners, but maybe better tutorials, and lessons would help. The basics are really easy.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Quote:
Isn't it amazing how if they don't know, they love the results, but as soon as they find out, it's like, "Oh!, that's not music!" or "that's cheating", and all of a sudden what they loved a minute ago becomes crap.
No bias there, huh?
BINGO! . . . . also remember there are snobs in all walks of life.
Later,
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Well, I have it on good authority that many pros who are way up there in the music biz may USE Band in a Box, etc. for whatever purposes, like as an aid to demos, composing, arranging, -- but they never tell anyone about it...
--Mac
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It isn't just BIAB ... the same people seem to disdain audio loops, MIDI, Garage Band, ACID, backing tracks, Karaoke.... anything related to music that isn't being played by a person
Although I HAVE gotten a negative response from SOME creative people about automated music, I have gottem some very positive reactions too. My conclusion is that the deciding factor of whether or not somebody is going to like BIAB is :
POSERS don't like stuff like this. To them, creativity and music (or art or literature bla bla woof woof) are means to an end, and the end is having a certain image.
On the other hand, I've noticed that people who are comfortable with who they are, and who aren't looking to impress anybody, and who just LOVE being totally immersed in the music-making process... these people pretty much always get excited when they are exposed to creative tools like BIAB.
I think its why this forum's participants are so noticeably lacking in pretense and full of sincere helpfulness. (That ain't the case in MOST forums!... but it's characteristic of the personality that is attracted to innovative tools)
So, next time you introduce someone to BIAB and they turn their nose up and then insult you, remember that's what happens when you cast pearls before swine. They trample the pearls underfoot, then turn on the person who cast the pearls.
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I have had that same response. I once told a clerk at a Nashville music store that I used Band in A Box and you would have thought I was contagious. I make no apologies for using biab, to me Band in a Box is a tool, like any other tool. It is simple to go from idea to full out orchestration in just minutes. I have heard some amazing music come from it. Someone I know had the #1 song at a local gospel radio station, beating out such songs as I Believe by Brooks and Dunn, Carrie Underwoods Jesus Take The Wheel, as well as several gospel performers. Guess what, it was Biab. That pesky program, ha, ha.
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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We'll all have our personal flavor of "our" story, and here is my take on it.
I had this burst of creativity hit me about March this year. A girl I was really quite stuck on had told me in mid February that her life was just too busy with her 2 bands and her kids and still fighting off her ex in court and she just didn't have time to give me. (I thought it should be MY decision that mattered about how much time is enough, but that isn't really relevant to this discussion.)
So when that all unfolded, I had all these lyrics come out, all these melodies to put them with, and BIAB, now RB. I now have 10 songs for a CD, 6 of which I think are "recordable" quality right now, 4 more to redo in RB as time allows. They are 95% RB, 5% me adding addition piano, guitar, synth, whatever, and the vocals.
And if anybody asks about it, I tell them "It's all me." which is not a lie. It is me composing, conceiving, putting theory to work while programming the chord charts, piecing those solo snippets together into acceptable solos, playing supporting parts and singing. So it's not a lie. It's just not all of the truth.
Most of the people I would play these for understand the time factor involved with teaching a band these songs, and those same people care more about the writing than the performance. I paid for the program one time. It has not asked me for a raise. It has never talked back or have an attitude when I didn't like the solo. It's never pate for rehearsal, doesn't drink too much at gigs, never wastes time at practice restringing a guitar, noodling between songs to impress themselves with guitar licks that don't fit this music, never whines about the music I select to play.... it's the perfect band member.
I would suspect those who turn their nose up at BIAB/RB are probably protesting too loudly and they are just too cheap to buy it, or lack the basic computer skills to run it.
My reply to anyone who would take me to task that my iPod band is Real Band would be something that the auto censor would cut of of this reply. I will go as far as to say that the first word of that reply rhymes with truck....
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Quote:
[BIAB/RB] has not asked me for a raise. It has never talked back or had an attitude when I didn't like the solo. It's never late for rehearsal, doesn't drink too much at gigs, never wastes time at practice restringing a guitar, noodling between songs to impress themselves with guitar licks that don't fit this music, never whines about the music I select to play.... it's the perfect band member.
So far it hasn't hit on my girlfriend, either! 
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
So far it hasn't hit on my girlfriend, either!
But I suspect it has taken time away from your girlfriend.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Actually, I've been unfaithful to BIAB. I warned GF that that is about to change . . .
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Quote:
[BIAB/RB] has not asked me for a raise. It has never talked back or had an attitude when I didn't like the solo. It's never late for rehearsal, doesn't drink too much at gigs, never wastes time at practice restringing a guitar, noodling between songs to impress themselves with guitar licks that don't fit this music, never whines about the music I select to play.... it's the perfect band member.
Not to mention the fact that BiaB never lets the tempo wander around needlessly and for no apparent reason...
She also never argues with me if I want to change something in an arrangement. At least, not in the sense of just plain not wanting to accept change.
Sitting at home, practicing along with BiaB has certainly forced me to analyze certain things, bad habits in playing, fingering, phrasing, etc. a lot closer than ever before.
And using BiaB also makes one much more aware of the bad things that are taken for granted with a lot of live musicians. In that regard, using BiaB is a lot like having your own sensei master onhand to critique your martial art...
--Mac
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Grasshopper, when you can play that solo riff without stopping, it will be time to leave!
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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My BIAB bassist and drummer are never late, always play the right notes and have great time. Most people who hear my "trio" are very surprised at the sound of the Real Tracks. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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