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Quote:
Quote:
Getting a record deal is nearly impossible.
Scott is absolutely right. The only sort of record deal worth signing is one where the record company is offering you a non-returnable advance against royalties. Because the record companies don't like losing money, they only offer these contracts to people who they know are certain to be a big success.
Statistically, you're more likely to get struck by lightning than to get one of these deals. (A surprisingly large number of golfers get struck by lightning every year.)
ROG.
In my line of work, I get exposed to a wide spectrum of people that are all up and down the 'making it' in the music business that use our products. Some are no-names, some are at the absolute top of the charts in their genres. I can tell you that happiness as well as abject sadness exists at all points in the spectrum.
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jcspro40,
I do/did appreciate your recommendation, very happy with them.
Thanx
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WSS mentioned festivals and that reminded me of another story. There are several big festivals around here every year, the Hermosa Arts one, the Manhattan Beach one, the really big one out in Pomona and others. We were down at the beach to the Hermosa one and there were two booths set up at opposite ends selling nothing but CD's. They had nice sound systems playing the music they were selling. One was pretty good contemporary jazz and the other was soothing aroma therapy background type stuff. I talked to the guy running the jazz booth and he wasn't the musician, that guy lives in San Francisco. He hires people to run these booths so he must be selling enough to be worth that I would assume although he could be losing his butt too. I don't know any details but you have to pay for those spaces plus the cost of the booth itself, traveling expenses, etc.
This is a business with all the risks and costs of any other business. I have a full time job, no way do I have the time to do that but still I'm drawn to it like lemmings to the sea because music has always been my first love. I keep going to these different places and keep gravitating to musicians trying to make it and talking to them. I suspect that playing down at the Santa Monica 3rd Street Promenade can work for some people too. Some of them are very good and I can see them selling CD's down there because I've bought a few, plus tips plus the exposure to get gigs from people just walking around. That is a very expensive area to live, house party gigs usually pay decently. I researched playing at the Promenade a bit too, you have to get a license from the city to do that and they will assign you an area to play and your time slot. It's up to you to find parking and schlep your equipment and that's not easy either. Naturally the best areas and time slots are difficult to get and I think it's first come first served so people are waiting in line for that. Again this is a business and it takes some investment and work. Lots of work.
Bob
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I'll take a look at Kunaki, but I've been selling pretty well over the past several years between my own site, Bandcamp, CD Baby, and at gigs. They each have their own advantages: My own site, I get the largest share of money; Bandcamp, I can earn free download codes (which can be either promotional or turned into download cards -- instant merch!); CD Baby distributes to iTunes so I don't have to; and gigs get me strike-while-the-iron-is-hot sales that can't be beat.
I should get more of my stuff onto YouTube -- not to sell it, but to make it known. Which, with links in the description, will sell it.
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Maybe I need to state my definition of "released". When I see that word I think of "not on a label that nobody has ever heard of, like 'Mustard Yellow Records', in the hands of every radio station on the planet so they have the opportunity to play it, and available in Walmart, K-Mart, Sears, Best Buy......" . Making CDs in the home studio to sell at gigs or on CD Baby is not what I am talking about, given my definition of "released". That was the original question, if you should release a CD yourself. If you are connected enough in the 6 Degrees of Separation game where you can do that, great. Most people can't do it without the machine behind them.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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@ Eddie, sorry mate but you are living in the distant past! I'm a gigging musician (its my job)& the main way of earning a living nowadays is by gigging & (more importantly) selling CD's at the venue, THAT is where the money is, big record lables are no longer BIG record lables in the sense of yesterday. They no longer are in a position to rip off the public as before & don't have the margins they once have so are no longer in a porition to trade as they once did. The power has been given back to the musician if, & only if, they want to take the bull by the horns. The example earlier was selling 25 cd's at a gig, now a cd can be produced for around $2 & sold for $15! imagine $13 dollars profit x 25 = $325 for 1 concert on top of the gig fee. Now if for a gigging musician you play just twice a week, thats 104 gigs a year (say 100 to round things out) that is $32,500 a year just by selling cd's. Not bad by any standards & that is without talking about online distribution.......... Think about it, gigs are where the money is nowadays!
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Quote:
As far as this website for manufactured CDs assume those are CDRs right?
That's a good price for 100 but not a very good price for 1000 sense the real places will manufacture 1000 for you at a lower price.
The real places?
Yes, they are CDR's, but so are Disc Makers & Oasis short runs.....
And Kunaki are GREAT for short, quick runs, not 1000's. For a band that only needs 40 to get them thru you can not beat Kunaki prices or service. Even after S&H you could not create the product at home for the same price, at least not at today's supplies cost...
And as a side note, all printing is done direct to disk, no labels on the CD-DVD's...
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Quote:
Think about it, gigs are where the money is nowadays!
I will give you that, but I offer this.
Your formula looks nice if you have gigs in 104 different places over that year and you dazzle 25 people at each of those gigs and they buy a CD. Where I live is a circuit of about a dozen rooms. Of those dozen rooms, you are at least "strongly discouraged", if not flat out forbidden, to play original music. The places where original acts are welcomed don't typically seat a lot of people, and those artists typically play to the same 30 faces every gig. Who will buy those 25 CDs? How many copies of that same CD do you think that group of 30 followers are going to buy? Unless you are going to waste weeks making a CD of other people's music and paying THEM royalties for your time.....
I don't know where you are, but "mate" makes me think Australia or England. The scene may be different there. Where I live, most of the bands who work a lot are players who play in 3-4 bands at a time, playing 100% cover, never with the same people twice in a row, and never really in a "band" in the definition of "players who work together toward a common goal". The handful of people who play original music are mostly solo artists, and again, they develop a following and see the same faces every gig, and once you have "the CD".... again, how many copies are they going to buy of the same CD? Unless you have a new CD ready every gig.....
The numbers are fine in theory, but unless you have product available for sale to the masses, that theory is theory only. "Bob" in Milwaukee or Detroit or Cleveland or Pittsburgh may sell a handful of CDs at his gigs, but nobody in Oregon or New Mexico knows who "Bob" is, and until he starts selling in Oregon and New Mexico.... you get what I am saying? Unless your CD is "released" (there is that semantics thing coming into play again - how do you define "released?") 50 states minus your home area don't know who you are.
Keep in mind also that "happening" varies from town to town. The northeast Ohio area used to be AWESOME. It is 20% of what it used to be. People don't have money to go out. I have a large number of friends who still play from back in the years that I did. I rarely go see them. Why? They are playing the same music they played then. I am not about to pay $5 at the door to visit with someone who I bowled with or played golf with for years. I'd rather visit them at home for free and there is no "gotta get back on stage" involved. I won't pay a cover charge to see ANY copy band.
But on topic, if you really don't have the avenues to be national (or even international) by all means sell your CDs and get paid for your hard work writing and recording. My only point is that selling CDs you made yourself in your basement is not, in my personal definition, my opinion, "releasing" anything.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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I'm an irishman living in France Eddie. I have a few differnt strings to my bow & I do solo gigs, in duo, trio & group. Also doing trad irish but also my own stuff & the selling of cd's, although only supplementary income, (I earn my living from being paid to do the gigs) adds up to a substantial addition to my earnings.
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"Barking Pumpkin Records"
Frank Zappa did it.
You can, too.
IF your product is worthy.
--Mac
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For making physical media, I have been very happy with Kunaki. Good prices and I don't have to waste time doing the work, other making the master and creating the artwork. You get shrink-wrapped CDs, with UPC (or not) and they have arrangements with Amazon and CDBaby to be the source. Six or less costs like $1 each plus shipping; otherwise, it's $1.75 per CD. You'll wasted that in color ink in no time, and their labels look fantastic.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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With the music world being 180% different than the music world I made my living in, I don't think anyone nowadays ties "Release" with "Record Company", at least from what I have seen with the 1000's of band's trying to get my money for a CD or download. Today it is Facebook-Bandcamp-yada-yada-yada markiting & digital downloads most of the time, but a CD is still the calling card of choice for a lot of people, clubs, & radio. And being old fashion, I say that a CD release is a must, because I KNOW that I am NOT the only one that feels paying $15 for a 10 song MP3 download & artwork that I have to print out to be a rip off! Just like manuals in PDF & ePub books, I feel cheated unless I have a physical item I can hold in my hand for the $$ I pay....if I don't (like a lot of software I buy) I feel like I have not got my moneys worth.  
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Quote:
With the music world being 180% different than the music world I made my living in, I don't think anyone nowadays ties "Release" with "Record Company", at least from what I have seen with the 1000's of band's trying to get my money for a CD or download.
I've gotta give a great big +1 on that one. If you've made CD's of your own music and you're offering them for sale to the public, you've "released" a CD. There doesn't need to be a record company or publishing company involved to make it a "release".
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Explain Kunaki's model a little bit if you would - those that use it.
Cost to manufacture look like $1, but shipping is $4.20, correct? Do they keep your CD on file for future orders? That is, let's say I sell 1 CD per week from my website, do you simply order another qty of 1 per week, and provide the ship to address?
I'm a little confused as to how their system works.
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Email me and I will send you some detaily goodies. Think it would violate rules on this forum. fb.seeker@gmail.comShort version: play will pricing page. Also thoroughly study the FAQ page.
Last edited by seeker; 09/22/12 08:26 PM.
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Quote:
"Barking Pumpkin Records"
Frank Zappa did it.
So did Sting. And Todd Rundgren. And Janis Ian. And many others who got tired of record company red tape.
However, does my name fit into that sentence anywhere?
This is the same concept as all the Little Mary Sunshine people who delight in telling me "Oh, you're not too old to play. Look at the Rolling Stones."
My reply? "Yes look at them. They have been a major 'somebody' for 50 years. Veteran acts hanging in is a little different than starting over again at 61."
You guys are taking my comments all wrong. Make your CDs. Sell them to everybody at every Joe's Bar gig you play. Let me know the first time you sell a substantial amount to anybody 2000 miles away from where you live.
This discussion isn't even about making your music. It's about marketing your music.
There is a guy who was the local hero here in Cleveland. I won't mention his name because we hate each other and he would sue me. Leave it to say that everybody loves him in that blind following way where he sells out shows even though he is WAY past his prime and now just writes to write. He was huge here in the 70s and early 80s though.
I was in Dallas Texas for a month in the early 90s. With weekends off and a rental car, I hit a bunch of record stores. I found one of his albums (this was when there was more vinyl than CD) and took it to the front and asked the clerk if they have ever sold one. She looked it up. They had never sold one of this guy's albums. None of them. They were VERY good albums, full of very good songs. But nobody in Texas had ever heard of the guy and who is going to buy an album by a guy you never heard of?
Here was a guy who DID have the machine behind him. He was on a fairly major label, and he DID play Dallas. Yet he had never sold an album in Dallas.
I am not saying don't sell your CDs. The topic of the thread was "To release a CD yourself or not". If you CAN get "the machine" behind you and make you available in 50 United States and 10 provinces in Canada, as well as the rest of the world, chances are you may sell more units. Maybe even get some radio play and pick up some mechanicals. A former bandmate has a song that somehow got some play in Australia. Every now and then he gets a royalty check for a few bucks. He still doesn't know how it got on the air, but BMI is BMI and he got his mechanical royalties.
So make your own copies, come up with a cute name for your "label", put funny artwork on the labels you make on your printer to stick on them, crank them out with a bulk duplication device, whatever. IF... I had the talent, the quality product, the funds to lawyer up to protect myself, I would be trying to go the label route. It's all a moot point because I don't have any of the above, but to answer the original topic, I would take the traditional route of trying to get on a major label and have their power available to me to move units.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Eddie, Quote:
It's all a moot point because I don't have any of the above, but to answer the original topic, I would take the traditional route of trying to get on a major label and have their power available to me to move units.
I think you're missing the point here. You're not gonna get on a major label. I'm not gonna get on a major label. Neither is anyone else on the forum. None of us are gonna be famous!
You talk about selling 1 million CD's, whenever most folks here would be happy to sell 100 CD's. You make it sound like someone's a failure if they can't reach that 1 million mark.
I've always been under the impression that most folks on the forum play music because they love it. Not because they had delusions of grandeur.
Take a reality check and realize that some people just want to share their music, even if it's only with a few people. Very few are looking to get their CD's into WalMart.
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Quote:
To release a CD yourself or not.
I think it all depends on your expectations. If you're hoping to sell a lot of product and by that I mean about 5000 units per week, you're going to need -
a} A good product, well recorded, produced and mastered.
b) A professional video, which can cost more than a small house.
c] Radio pluggers and social media manipulation.
d] An accountant, lawyer and an admin office.
For most people, this means a contract with a major player and I think this is what Eddie is saying, but as we've already established, for most people it's not an available option.
If, on the other hand, you're talking about a few CDs to sell at gigs, do-it-yourself is your only option. Just don't expect to become rich and famous.
ROG.
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Everything about Band in a Box and Realband and Powertracks, plus all the other great softwares, hardwares and etc. that we discuss on this very forum is basically geared towards INDIE production.
And INDIE production has been and still is the "revolution" that hss changed the old "you must sign with a recording company" model.
It is not enough to simply ask for "change" -- when change does indeed come along, it is necessary to embrace same.
Improvise, Adapt and Overcome.
--Mac
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I am planning on releasing a CD this year (actually I have dogged it for the last 9 months and it should be done and out by now!). I plan to go the Kunaki, Bandcamp and CD-Baby route (need to also look into that micro-payment setup with paypal).
Will I sell any CD's at all? Probably not (unless I buy one myself -- ha, ha), but I am going to do it anyway. As far as marketing, I will just list that I have done a CD on the 50/90, FAWM, RPM, and the songwriting sites I belong to. I don't see any use in trying to market anywhere else that I would have to pay for.
Edit: Oh yea, I will probably join BMI or ASCAP at that time and register with soundscan. Why not?
Last edited by Kemmrich; 09/23/12 05:03 AM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
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