PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Could You Live From Making Music?

OK Bob . . . I think this is my second "Well Said" to you on this thread.

Well Said (again)!

Sorry to interrupt, but for some reason I am seeing "me thinks" everywhere these days. It is actually "methinks". The only reason I know that is that a moronic sports writer used it frequently in a really dumb recent column and someone pointed that discrepancy out (I had to look it up to confirm). It is OK for you and I, Bob, to not know that -- but a journalist should not get that wrong.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Eddie you wrote: "I want to write MY book."

Well, then you have to write it. Same with music. If you don't want to play "Freebird" and whatever other songs are on your list that you can't stand then don't. Write some songs that people want to hear.

I see a paradox in your earlier posts in this thread and some other recent threads and these most recent posts. You talked about your Motown band. Originals or covers? Covers = you are editing and presenting someone else's book; you've changed the characters slightly, the ending has a twist, etc. - but it's still someone else's book that you are reading with a different voice than what they originally wrote in.

What I read you saying now is that you want to do original music. If not, then I can completely understand when the audience or even other band members want to hear the song in it's most popular rendition. Unless it's the artist recognized as either the author of the song, or the artist that made it popular.

If I was a smooth vocalist and I decided to sing 'Moon River', the audience is gonna want to hear me at least ape part of Andy Williams (RIP), even if he wasn't the first to sing it.

Here's Andy Williams singing it in the early 60's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK4pmJQ6zgM

And then in 1970: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi0UUP7g-0M

Dang - if that's not nearly the same I don't know what is. Even he would have caused a ruckus if he got all jazzy with HIS version of the song, to 'make it his own' as is spoken of by covers of songs these days. And it wasn't his song, but his version is what is best loved. 8 years passed between those videos and you hear Andy copying his own inflections, slides, grace notes and what not 8 years passing. How many times do you think he performed that song in those 8 years? I wouldn't be surprised if it was 10,000 times. Don't you think he wanted to bust out of that mold a little more during that time? He couldn't. His high paying, making a living JOB was to sing that song the way the buying public wanted it to be sung. His job was to be his own tribute singer to try to nail his popular version for as long as he could do it to whatever paying listener was in the audience.

So, I am confused as to your protests about having to follow a popular rendition of popular songs, as a performing artist. I understand about the nit-picky comments of whether it's a single cymbal crash vs. splash and so forth.

When I listen to Comfortably Numb, I want to hear David Gilmour's solos - not some 'artistic' rendition. I want to hear those huge string bends and the smooth cool-ness of the perfectly placed long triplet runs over 4/4 time rhythm. If it's David Gilmour playing it or someone else, it doesn't matter - the note choices were ace in the original recording and will forever be ace. One of the few guitar solos that to me cannot be messed with because I will miss the goosebumps that I get EVERY time I hear Gilmour's original recorded version and people that can ape it well with similar tone.

There are some exceptions, I think I prefer Seal's version of "Fly Like An Eagle" over Steve Miller bands original. But I like both versions. However, that's not a solo-centric song like Comfortably Numb, or like a solo performer iconic performance like Andy Williams' Moon River (which is originally Mancini/Mercer, correct?)

Maybe that's where your protest breaks down. What caused a song to be iconic? If it's a particular solo, then you have to nail the solo. It's the voice of the song. If it's a solo artist, and not a full-on band performance, then I would say that there's probably much less room for improvisation and creative room than with a band-centric performance where even the famous band took their own liberties with the songs.

It's one of the reasons I usually avoid 'Live' CDs, let alone going to hear a local band play cover tunes. The 'Live' CD is often a disappointment to me, not due to any ineptitude by the band/artist, but often they go off on a different tangent than where the original recording takes me emotionally.

Does that make sense?

Eddie,

I don’t make a living playing music and neither do you, but there are a few people on this forum who do.

Whether you realize it or not, your incessant rants against performers who are playing what people want to hear is insulting those musicians big time. The topic is “Could You Live From Making Music?”

Some folks have answered very affirmatively by going out and doing it. There’s not a good reason in the world for you to put them down for doing so.

I was composing my response immediately above while Eddie answered.

No, Bob, I am not putting anybody down. The question is whether you can make a living in music. You can, and many do. My point is that there are different paths to follow. I played in nothing BUT copy bands. I never had the skills to go beyond regional. I, me, myself, personally..... I prefer to see, when spending my entertainment dollars, a local band playing original music over one that plays covers. You guys who are telling me about how the entertainment giants do other people's music are mixing apples and nectarines. Major, viable performers tour to sell albums. Taylor Swift is maybe the hottest act right now, and she will tour again soon to promote her next album (whenever that is). When she does that tour, she will perform her hits from her older albums so her fan base gets to sing along. But do you think she won't do 6-7 cuts from the album the tour supports? And to say that her doing her older material makes her a "cover" act... c'mon guys.

The point is, it's a different game at that level.

As to Scott's example, it comes down to this. Do you want to be Andy Williams singing Moon River or Henry Mancini writing it? I would rather write a song once and make money every time Andy sings is than Andy having to sing it 250 nights in 250 cities every year. It hasn't happened for me, and won't if it hasn't by now.

I am pretty much going to duck out of this debate. You guys are taking simple, general comments and using ridiculous examples to try and make your point. Whether Sinatra sang songs written by other people or not is not the issue. It's about "The Booze Hounds" playing Joe's Bar. That is reality. If The Booze Hounds are happy and make a living playing 3 hours of Beatles and Stones covers, god bless them. That kind of thing isn't for me. It would not make me happy, so I don't do it. That doesn't mean I am right and they are wrong. How is saying that playing covers for a living wouldn't be enjoyable for me putting YOU down if it is?

Since the topic has obviously changed from “Could You Live From Making Music?” to cover songs, I’ll weigh in on that.

I enjoy hearing someone take a classic song and then make it their own by playing their own rendition of it. I don’t want to hear them perfectly mimic the original artist’s version. I want them to put a new twist on it. If it’s a good song, it’s ripe for new interpretations.

The perfect example would be “Cold, Cold Heart” by Hank Williams. …From Wiki:

Quote:

---

"Cold, Cold Heart" has since been recorded by many other artists, including Louis Armstrong, Tony Bennett, Donald Peers, Petula Clark, Johnny Cash, Nat King Cole, Aretha Franklin, Bill Haley & His Comets, Rosemary Clooney, Dinah Washington, Norah Jones, Lucinda Williams, Ronnie Hawkins, Raul Malo, George Jones, David Allan Coe, Guy Mitchell, Teresa Brewer, Jerry Lee Lewis, Cowboy Junkies, Frankie Laine, and Jo Stafford.

---

That’s a pretty impressive list of people who recorded a “cover”. I haven’t heard them all, but I feel safe in saying that NONE of them tried to mimic Hank Williams version.

I’ve always liked the song, but I grew to love it after hearing Norah Jones do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g35zS1tVO...ture=plpp_video

I suspect that Hank would be proud. So play your “covers” and don’t be afraid to put your own spin on it.

This discussion got way off course, veering into "doing A cover tune" vs "doing 3 hours of copy tunes".

Once again, FOR MY TASTES, I would prefer 50 minutes of mediocre originals to 3 hours of perfectly executed covers because the writing is what stretches the player into another level. I know of great players everywhere that have yet to have even one original thought, be it writing a poem, a limerick, telling a story with lyrics.... FOR ME, that is the side of this I am most interested in and impressed with.

I have a friend here who has the best voice I have heard since Emmylou Harris. She plays in 2 bands. When I go see her, when they do the old country classics, the old folkie classics... yes it is entertaining to hear sing. But my ears perk up when they do songs she wrote. Those are emotional things coming out of her. The first day of music classes in college, the prof will ask "What is music?" and the correct answer is "Music is expressed emotion". I am sure when Hank Williams wrote "Cold Cold Heart", it meant something personal to him. It doesn't to me. My song "Do It All Again" means something to me. It wouldn't to Hank. (Particulary since he has been dea for a long time.) A GOOD original takes your emotions and reaches out and grabs someone elses emotions. That girl I mentioned writes that way. When she sings about some event in her life, it makes you feel like it happened to you, and in a sense, in our own way, it has. We have likely experienced something similar and there's a connection.

And again, for me, my opinion, what I prefer, what I would pay to see.... is THAT kind of performer. For the same reason you may like slasher movies and I hate them.... I don't go to bars at all and never see cover bands. I DO go to concerts, like Mary Chapin Carpenter, Bonnie Raitt, etc.... and yes they played older songs, but they were older songs they wrote. Of course you play songs teh crowd knows, but they also played a sample from the new album they were on tour with, and sales in both cases were quite good. (I am cheap so I didn't buy one, but I'm just sayin'...)

On topic, those 2 artists make a living touring and selling CDs. Others make a living hosting jam night. Whatever fills your sails.

Interesting discussion and comments. The usual "cover/original" debate, "that list", "bar bands", etc. always surfaces in these discussions. As for that, Notes said it best when he stated that nobody wants to hear original music. He's dead right. People want to sing along and dance to familiar songs. "That list" is "that list" for a reason. To imply that playing "that list" is some form of musical prostitution is disingenuous.
Can you make a "living" playing music? Sure. Notes is doing it. Are you going to get rich playing music? Nope. Anyone who has tried knows that it's long hours for short money. Club owners will stiff you. Agents will stiff you. People will steal your stuff. You'll be loading out and driving home at 3:30 AM dodging the drunks on the highway. Having fun yet?
Yes. Entertaining people, taking away their cares and making them relive their best memories is more fulfilling than most anything I can think of. It's a privilege to entertain people, even if you have to play "that list" to do it.

Good post 90 dB. Did you know that 90 dB is the OSHA mandated limit for occupational noise exposure for an 8 hour workday?

NIOSH says it should be 85 dB.

Sorry, I let my daily work nerd talk creep into the discussion.......

I don't think it is the content at all.

It is all about the PERFORMANCE of said content, be it cover or original.

Bad Performance is bad performance, no matter if it is a cover song or an original.

Perhaps there is good reason for all the stereotyping going on concerning such in this thread, but at the end of the day it is still nothing more than stereotyping.

There are good cover bands, there are bad cover bands.

There are good original acts, there are bad original acts.

As with anything else, perhaps the bad outnumber the good.

Or perhaps it says more about where some people go to hear the acts than anything else.

Defense of the mediocre never made any sense to me.

As for whether it is better or not to play your own improvised solo or attempt to nail the wellknown solo from a target recording in a cover song, my view on that is that there are certain songs that contain solos that are actually musical hooks and in those cases the journeyman musician must both be able to determine if that is the case plus be able to learn and play that certain solo convincingly enough to pull it off and that seems to work better in those instances, judging from audience approval.

Cover or original, I'll go with Duke Ellington's famous remark, "IF IT SOUNDS GOOD, IT IS GOOD!"


--Mac