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#235349 01/15/14 08:49 PM
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Hey PG Style makers,
I have hit the wall when trying to use the thousands of styles provided in the Ultra Plus Pak for 2013. True there are many styles available. However, when you take into consideration the quality of the arrangement of many of them, you are in reality left with a handful of quality Jazz, Country, and Rock styles. All the others do not offer any real quality accompaniment. When I bought this Pak I had the high expectation of at least finding several hundred within the thousands of styles offered being I like almost every genre of music style. Instead, I am back to using the same dozen or so styles I had from the prior version.

After hours of tinkering with everything in the style list, I find myself growing weary over the wasted time with no outcome. Plus, I am having trouble within the styles I choose where an example would be in measure 1 is set to the "A" phrase of the chorus. The "B" is slated for measure 12. The drum comes in strong on the intro, completely changes upon measure one. Then, by measure 3, he has changed again to a completely different pattern. It is as if the drummer is suffering from schizophrenia.

The other problem is found in the MIDI styles. The arrangements are so out of date, they really should be removed where your advertisement can be more truer to the actual number of useable styles. After listening to many of the songs on the board, I don't hear any of them played by your other customers as well. It does not seem fair that we are given the expectation that there are thousands of styles available where in reality, only a small handful are within the acceptable listening style in their arrangement. I don't mind the MIDI as I can transfer them to virtual instruments to provide the sonic properties I am after. But, when it comes to the arrangement themselves, there is nothing I can do with that. The whole purpose of your program is to supply accompaniment; in other words arrangements that make it enjoyable to play with. If I have to change the sound in my VST, AND have to rearrange the parts, then what purpose does your style serve?

Thanks for reading. I hope this will encourage two things to be considered in future product releases: 1, an honest count of the actual usable styles as this is intended to be an accompaniment tool and should be able to withstand the test of providing quality arrangements in all the tracks advertised and provided.
2. If you wish to advertise the offer of thousands of styles, that you make each style usable to where a performer would not be laughed off the stage while playing the BIAB accompaniment.

For those who are considering purchasing this product. BIAB does offer some excellent Classic Rock, Traditional Jazz, and Country styles. If you fall into any of these styles and don't mind using the same styles over and over again, then BIAB can be very resourceful. However, the thousands of styles advertised in reality works out to be about a handful within each of the genres mentioned. tired

As for me, if I had known that I was going to net about a dozen more styles after having upgraded to 2013, I would have spent my money elsewhere. I feel I did not get what I paid for. Sorry gang. Very disappointed.

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Ricke,

If you're as disappointed as you sound, you can always ask for a refund. PG Music offer a 30 day money back guarantee.

For the record, I don't have the same views as you. I've found 2014 amazing to work with and I think it's well worth every penny. At the end of the day, though, it's each to his own.

All the best,
Noel


MY SONGS...
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I am sorry Noel. I was referring to BIAB 2013. I am behind the times. smile I have been trying to use it beyond the scope of the normal styles I default to and have been not having any luck or inspiration from any of the additional styles.

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Hey gang, I don't mean to make this thread into a bash. It is really intended to communicate to the style designers that they need to do something about their end of the product to either fix up all the styles to something that is usable. Or, remove those that have no use and count just those that are usable. A good idea would be to see what styles are being used in BIAB's music forum. Then ask themselves, are these all we offer? Or, is it that the thousands we claim to offer do not appeal to our audience.

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+1 here Noel...

I greatly enjoy taking BIAB's Real Styles/Real Tracks and rearranging/rebuilding them into the exact final musical product I'm seeking.

In fact I think I'd get bored with BIAB quickly if everything I wanted existed in a perfect format just waiting for my click. I see the Real Tracks/Real styles as wonderful starting points to create new styles and further embellish upon.

It's challenging and greatly rewarding when I drop my custom-built core of BIAB Real Tracks/Styles into my DAW and get busy replacing/adding drumbeats, and maybe adding bass, synth and guitar lines as I seek to create exactly what I'm looking for...

Some nights are a mega-flop... but more often than not, I'm super happy with the results.

Tonight I just couldn't find the exact drum "feel" that I wanted in Real Drums - I found some that were very close, but nothing exactly matched what I wanted... I set a tempo, found some rhythm guitar tracks and piano lines that worked for me; I set the chord pattern, generated the tracks and dropped them into my DAW. Then I created and added the exact drum line that I couldn't find in BIAB tonight with Superior Drummer 2 - along with adding the bass line that was just what I wanted... So, what initially wasn't available in BIAB tonight now exists in my DAW project with a lot of help from BIAB...

I define this evening's activity as great fun... probably not everyone would. I'm a producer and engineer type who happens to be proficient on several instruments, but I'm not a performer. (the guys in the bands I worked with over the years referred to me as a "shoe gazer..." A pretty accurate term I guess!)

My personal approach to BIAB is like my old boss used to say (way too often) "make it happen!"

And I agree with you - "To each their own!"


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Originally Posted By: RickeG
Hey PG Style makers,
I have hit the wall when trying to use the thousands of styles provided in the Ultra Plus Pak for 2013. True there are many styles available. However, when you take into consideration the quality of the arrangement of many of them, you are in reality left with a handful of quality Jazz, Country, and Rock styles. All the others do not offer any real quality accompaniment. When I bought this Pak I had the high expectation of at least finding several hundred within the thousands of styles offered being I like almost every genre of music style. Instead, I am back to using the same dozen or so styles I had from the prior version.

After hours of tinkering with everything in the style list, I find myself growing weary over the wasted time with no outcome. Plus, I am having trouble within the styles I choose where an example would be in measure 1 is set to the "A" phrase of the chorus. The "B" is slated for measure 12. The drum comes in strong on the intro, completely changes upon measure one. Then, by measure 3, he has changed again to a completely different pattern. It is as if the drummer is suffering from schizophrenia.

The other problem is found in the MIDI styles. The arrangements are so out of date, they really should be removed where your advertisement can be more truer to the actual number of useable styles. After listening to many of the songs on the board, I don't hear any of them played by your other customers as well. It does not seem fair that we are given the expectation that there are thousands of styles available where in reality, only a small handful are within the acceptable listening style in their arrangement. I don't mind the MIDI as I can transfer them to virtual instruments to provide the sonic properties I am after. But, when it comes to the arrangement themselves, there is nothing I can do with that. The whole purpose of your program is to supply accompaniment; in other words arrangements that make it enjoyable to play with. If I have to change the sound in my VST, AND have to rearrange the parts, then what purpose does your style serve?

Thanks for reading. I hope this will encourage two things to be considered in future product releases: 1, an honest count of the actual usable styles as this is intended to be an accompaniment tool and should be able to withstand the test of providing quality arrangements in all the tracks advertised and provided.
2. If you wish to advertise the offer of thousands of styles, that you make each style usable to where a performer would not be laughed off the stage while playing the BIAB accompaniment.

For those who are considering purchasing this product. BIAB does offer some excellent Classic Rock, Traditional Jazz, and Country styles. If you fall into any of these styles and don't mind using the same styles over and over again, then BIAB can be very resourceful. However, the thousands of styles advertised in reality works out to be about a handful within each of the genres mentioned. tired

As for me, if I had known that I was going to net about a dozen more styles after having upgraded to 2013, I would have spent my money elsewhere. I feel I did not get what I paid for. Sorry gang. Very disappointed.

BIAB is an amazing tool but I do get what you are saying. based on the pre-defined styles and the songs being created in the user forum, I get the strong impression that if your musical tastes get very far outside the standard genres you mentioned (classic rock, trad. jazz and country) you may be challenged to achieve what you want with BIAB. or maybe it is achievable but I do not know how to get there yet. I am still a rank newbie having only used the product for a year. plus, my tastes tend to fall somewhere inside the country and classic rock genres so I can usually find what I want. but I have begun to notice my searches tend to end up with the same handful of styles. I guess that is why folks are always excited about new RealTracks!

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BIAB; some times i get indeed annoyed by the time it takes to find something useful as i use it mainly for trying out new songs etc without too much doing overdubs playing guitars, fiddles, piano, accordion etc my self. I am not a modern jazzer, although i like pro 40-ies types of "jazz" and western swing a lot. You could say the modern jazz influences are pretty well done and represented (Peters' an Olivers' influence ??) and if you're into that BIAB is especially very good.

- I use it a lot for creating lead sheets and chord printing, BIAB's very useful and fast at that for simple style note printing.

- I agree that some styles are "outdated" maybe, but MIDI stuff is fast to work with in BIAB, and as such useful for me. Too many relics from the old Atari days maybe?. The division of the only 6 tracks and tracknames in drums, piano etc maybe could be revised? Only one audio track?

- Oft the soft synth used is really determinates the results you get with MIDI stuff, and Hypersonic 2 was a long time my favorite GM helper with BIAB for fast tryouts of songs, but has been abandoned (again) by Steinberg in regards 64 platforms. I don't like Sampletank that much, especially the hassles with the licenses etc. and a try out stint with the full version was just too time consuming for me creating a quick tryout for a song. Great with BIAB: you can save preferred styles etc pretty easy, and 2014 is very stable to work with in windows 7. I don't have that much worked with realband, a sequencer like Cubase or Cakewalk offers so much more possibilities. Coyote is alas abit out dated, but still sounds good, especially the old 1.6 non-wavetable version IMO was better.

- I would like to see more if BIABs' capabilities within Realtracks, or a smooth integration of both; the track limitations of BIAB and the fact that you still can not slave it to MTC or Midiclock to other soft or hardware audio stuff makes BIAB less useful for me.

- All in all the recent BIAB 2014 stuff is a great weapon, and don't forget that as a songwriting or demoing tool you don't have to pay musicians for time spent, hiring a studio, and as bonus can use all BIABs generated audiotracks for your own copyrighted material. With all complicated music soft and hardware you'll have to spend a lot of time to get the hang of possibilities and work arounds to achieve what you want. Need more bonuses?: PG music's support is OUTSTANDING, compliments there ....

- PS, a tip for PG music, buy the Hypersonic v2 VSTi stuff from Steinberg maybe? ... - F


Last edited by fiddler2007; 01/16/14 12:58 AM. Reason: correction
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RickeG: Out of curiosity, what styles do you do or are trying to do? I read through your posts and couldn't tell.

Richard


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RickeG has made a few valid points. It would be nice if BIAB "cleaned up" all those styles. I find myself going through a lot of styles that don't so much for me. New and better styles from songs that are playing on today's radio (country, pop, rock, indie) would be great.

But "today" is always a moving target.


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Originally Posted By: Ryszard
RickeG: Out of curiosity, what styles do you do or are trying to do? I read through your posts and couldn't tell.

Richard


+1


Without that key bit of information...



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I agree that a lot of the "midi" styles are useless to me. Although, I can say that I haven't used many of them to render real tracks from that style.

I have found, that for the most part, I do favor the real styles in BB since while I'm writing and composing, I want to hear something that is going to sound more like the finished project.

Having said that, I do believe you are only limited by your imagination and how much effort you wish to put into doing something to accomplish that goal.

For example, I have done this very thing. First create the song with a style. Next render the tracks in RB. Now go back to BB and change the key or the style. Render again in RB for new tracks.

Now, edit those tracks into one song.... a song with style changes in parts or as was the case for me, a key change.

There has never been a time, while composing, that I thought, hey, I can't write this song because I can't find anything in the 3000+ style close enough to make it work.


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Hello All,

Ditto on RickeG having some very valid points.

In BB, if you click on 'Styles' at the top of the main screen, at the bottom of the list is the 'Choose from 24 built-in styles' option. This list of midis has been around for decades. They are very outdated, so why keep them?

When working on new tunes, I first lay out the song structure, decide the key, etc. So if I go with the Lite Rock style from this list, the parts are all midi and no waiting for RTs or RDs. When I start on the vocals, all I need is the final arrangement with repeats, ending, etc. till it's time to move up to RT styles.

When working on a dozen or more songs at a time, this can be a great time saver.

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Styles can be mixed and customized. Parts of a bib creation used, and other parts altered. Two or three can be combined. Other options explored, drum tracks from loops,
vstis like jamstix created. No limit. But as said Rickie's question will remain unanswered till we know what he needs.

Let us know bud, there is a lot of collective knowledge here.


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Originally Posted By: Robh
Styles can be mixed and customized. Parts of a bib creation used, and other parts altered. Two or three can be combined. Other options explored, drum tracks from loops,
vstis like jamstix created. No limit. But as said Rickie's question will remain unanswered till we know what he needs.

Let us know bud, there is a lot of collective knowledge here.


+1 on that!
I often use a midi style if close to what I,m after, however plinky plonky,and sub the tracks for RTs and RDs to get what I want.
2014 is awesome compared from where I came - BIAB2008.5.
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Originally Posted By: Kemmrich
New and better styles from songs that are playing on today's radio (country, pop, rock, indie) would be great.


+1

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IMO, There are a lot of great styles there, it can sometimes be hard to find them.
The poster is using version 2013. We added an important new feature in version 2014 which is instant audition of styles. You just double click on a style name, and you hear what it is supposed to sound like. This speed up audition of styles by about 10x.

So, for example, if you are looking for "rock" styles, you cold just the user the word rock as a filter, and could also filter for Realtracks only (no MIDI). Then you get a a list of Rock Realtracks styles. And now with 2014, you just double click on the, to instantly hea what they sound like. Please let me know if there is a better way to search for styles that you are looking for.


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If I remember correctly, there's a way to audition most or maybe even all of the styles, online, on the PGMusic website. If I was a new buyer or an "upgrader", I would certainly have taken the time to check to make sure there were styles available that I wanted.

Then if there were, so what if there are thousands of other styles? I doubt that anyone here uses more than a few hundred styles. You can imagine how difficult it is for PGMusic to try to please the broad spectrum of users wanting the latest styles.

I don't agree that ANY of the styles should be dropped, including the "built in" ones. I use them when I'm showing BIAB to someone for the first time. It gives them an idea of what to expect for a basic purchase (and then "wow" them with a RealStyle!).

I also sometimes use those styles as a starting point for a down-and-dirty quick look at a new song.

As someone mentioned, you can always get your money back. If you're happy with BIAB and don't find a particular style you want, put it on the Styles Wishlist.

I say leave what we have alone. They don't need "cleaning up". If you don't like a style, ignore it. There's plenty of ways of "filtering" if you're having to go through too many styles.

Just my 2 cents (CDN) <grin>.
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Cleaning up is always a good thing to do.

Is there an archive function in BIAB? It would be nice to move 90% of the styles into an inactive status that you could always peruse at a later time.

Style creation should be an ongoing activity. It be nice if I could say, hey (ho), I would like a lumineers' style tune with acoustic guitar, cello, kick drum and tambourine. ... and yes I am lazy, I don't feel like doing it myself (ha, ha).


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Just use the Style Picker filter to show the kinds of styles you may use. You'll never have to look at the other thousands again. For example, I filter by Real Tracks only. I don't have to look at tracks I don't need. Later, Ray


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Good One Ray. All the tools are actually already there. See as much or as little as you need.


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