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Have been using a stand-alone digital recorder (Boss BR-8) for a number of years, but am now looking to do some recording on my computer. Was wondering if it was a good idea to get a USB interface or just run analog out of my (analog) mixer into the sound input on my laptop. Planning to use Sonar X3 for recording audio. I played with it the other day using the mixer, but was having issues with gain and latency.
Which option would give me the best sound and least amount of latency?
Thoughts?
Thanks
Rich
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Without a doubt.... get the USB interface. You will not regret it.
Be sure to get one that has the features you need and want.
Be sure it:
runs ASIO drivers and not codecs and wrappers.
has nice clean preamps for audio (check out Focusrite)
has phantom power for condenser mics
has sufficient outputs for studio monitors and what ever else you want to use like headphone amp, etc...
has a sufficient number of inputs to match the DAW ...at least 2 is normal.
It's the heart of the studio so invest in a nice one.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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If the goal is multitrack MUSIC recording, it is good practice to ignore the internal sound device and select and use a good quality aftermarket sound device that is purpose designed for recording music.
--Mac
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I've been through this now 4 times over the past 20 years of doing home recording.
In my opinion, it's always best to write out what you like about your current way of working, and what you would like to gain access to.
Then that starts out a feature list of what you need to look for.
It could end up that you don't gain anything with purchasing a different piece of gear.
Laptop mic inputs are not really well suited for connection to line outs from mixers.
I would start a list that handles what you want to do from an audio and possibly midi standpoint.
Work from that list. Sweetwater music's catalog makes a great cross-reference table of available interfaces and their capabilities.
Number of channels of microphone pre-amps is often a primary driver for external interfaces. You may not really need any.
I've had great luck with my most recent interface, a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8. I've used every input type it has available now, without any hitches - including it's sample rate re-conversion from SPDIF input. My previous interfaces required that I reset the interfaces sample rate to match the incoming SPDIF input. I run my Bass V-Amp Pro SPDIF out to interface SPDIF in. There was not even a dialog box that I had to look at for this with my Focusrite - it just plain worked.
I was avoiding Focusrite due to their rather 'flexible' mixing applet - but I've not really needed to use it at all. Things are just working as expected (very nice change compared to my TASCAM US-800).
I've used the Pre-amps, the line ins, midi input and SPDIF inputs, along with the main monitoring and heaphone monitoring - all working without a hitch.
But start your own list. What is it that you can't do now that you think will be better on a computer?
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Thanks for the replies. I'm currently creating my tracks on my laptop using BIAB and MIDI. To record on my stand-alone digital recorder, I have to record those tracks to the recorder before adding any vocals. Once I record the instrument tracks, I'm no longer able to make any edits to the tracks (at least not easily). It's also only 8 tracks. I usually use 2 for vocals and save 2 for mastering, so that only leaves me with 4 usable tracks for instruments.
My Boss unit has preformed great, but it's also getting a little long in the tooth and I'm not sure how much I want to have to rely on it.
I'm kind of leaning toward the PreSonus Audiobox interface. I'm fine with only 2 inputs and it sounds like a nice unit.
Feel free to tell me if I'm looking at this wrong.
Thanks
Rich
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Presonus is a good choice IMHO.
--Mac
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Presonus is good however, I'm biased towards the Focusrite line since I have one and it is impressive. Especially the preamps. The world famous Focusrite preamps are known for being clean and sweet.
I first started back into digital recording by using a Korg D-1600 hard disk recorder. I didn't like how it treated the drums. So I went to a computer based DAW and thought I would use the Korg as an input mixer but soon realized that all I really needed to do is to go straight into the Saffire interface inputs and the results were crystal.
I've had the Saffire now for 6+ years and it's worked on a laptop and now my custom build DAW. 2 inputs is all I need.
If you have Band In A Box, you should also have Real Band. Real Band is a multitrack DAW. Rather than using the BR-8, try working on recording a project totally "in the box" using RB as the multitrack DAW.
For the entire time I have been back into digital recording, I have been working 100% "in the box". When I found out the Saffire would give me crystal input to the DAW, I sold the D-1600 immediately on Ebay and never looked back. For one thing in a DAW, the tracks are laid out in front of you on the screen, so editing and punches and more, are simple procedures to do.
I would stop recording if I had to go back to a standalone digital recorder like the Korg. Period.... done.... find something else to do. There's that much of a difference to me.
It's when you start getting into the multitrack stuff, and especially when using the midi softsynths that the interface will shine. The ASIO drivers along with the "engineered for music" circuitry will make things run like they are supposed to run.
Essentially, the interface and the hardware should be transparent to you.....it should not get in the way of the creative process. I turn my studio on, and it's ready to go. Hit record and I'm recording and everything else is perfectly synched up as it should be. All 16 to 20 or more channels of audio and the synths.
my 2 cents
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Takamine,
I have been using the PreSonus AudioBox USB for close to two years. You can't beat it for a compact, inexpensive, and rugged unit. It also comes with a bundled version of Presonus Studio One, an interesting piece of recording software.
It has everything I need unless and until I start making money at this: Two Hi- or Lo-Z inputs with level controls and peak indicators, separate volume controls for headphones and speakers, MIDI I/O, speaker outs, and a "Mixer" control which I have never used.
It has one quirk: It always wants to see the same USB port. If you unplug it and connect to a different port you may need to uninstall and reinstall the driver. Pretty minor, but I mention it for the sake of completeness.
The only thing I wish it had, but doesn't, is a S/PDIF output, which would allow me to use the Focusrite VRM, a device that provides virtual room/speaker combinations which let you accurately mix on headphones.
If you need more, all of the forum members' recommendations above are solid.
HTH,
Richard
Last edited by Ryszard; 02/21/14 01:18 PM. Reason: Corrected VRM mfr
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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One issue I've seen about the PreSonus unit is it doesn't have line level inputs. I have a Takamine guitar and Korg N364 keyboard that both output a line level signal. Have you had any issues not having the line level inputs?
Rich
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Use the combo inputs no issue. VRMis from Focusrite btw. Los of audio box units for sale on guitar sinner used site and in local craigslist.
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Rich,
I can't answer your question directly. I have way more than two instruments and mics, so I use a mixer which I then plug into the AudioBox, just for convenience in patching. Your keyboard would probably be okay, but you might need or want a preamp for the guitar.
R.
BTW, I stand corrected on the VRM's provenance.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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One issue I've seen about the PreSonus unit is it doesn't have line level inputs. That's just noise from people who either don't understand how the 1/4" jack input in the center of the XLR plugs is designed electronically. Specifications list that Input as having a nominal impedance of 0.5 Megohms. Therefore the single input represents a good tradeoff in that it won't load down the impedance of guitar pickups yet can still easily handle the input from say a Keyboard Line Output with ease and audio cleanliness. Just adjust keyboard's output volume to suit what the VU meters in your software tell you is not going to clip and be assured that it will work just fine, because it will. --Mac
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Combo inputs on nearly any interface will handle instrument or line level inputs. Check the specs. Most of them are designed to work this way. It should be very clear in the marketing info and spec sheets from the manufacturer.
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Not all are designed alike.
For example, there are some in which the 1/4" input has an impedance that is too low for the magnetic electric guitar pickup. Loads it down and changes the sound.
The EMU 1818 Audiodock is one such example, input impedance of around 10K ohms is fine for Line Level, but even though it has enough gain for a guitar pickup, that loading is a bit much.
A guy with a forumname of Takamine, though, shouldn't have any problem at all, for the Taks would have preamps in them for their piezo pickups. If he also owns a guitar with electromagnetic pickup and no preamp, could be problematic though.
The Presonus, as I already mentioned, should have no problems with any guitar or keyboard.
--Mac
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Not all are designed alike.
For example, there are some in which the 1/4" input has an impedance that is too low for the magnetic electric guitar pickup. Loads it down and changes the sound.
The EMU 1818 Audiodock is one such example, input impedance of around 10K ohms is fine for Line Level, but even though it has enough gain for a guitar pickup, that loading is a bit much.
Perhaps I should have clarified - modern/new interfaces with combo inputs - There are about 25 different USB offerings at www.sweetwater.com in the under 200$ price range. Every single one of them that has a combo XLR-1/4" input lists some way to connect hi impedance "Instrument" inputs, which to my understanding by proxy also means that they will handle line level driven at the appropriate amount. I haven't seen in the last 5 years or so, that hasn't offered at least one of it's 'combo' inputs on an external audio interface that wasn't designed to handle high impedance instrument inputs. Some of them will not have hi-z capability for all of the combo inputs, but I've not seen one where it wasn't designed for at least one and more commonly 2 of the combo jacks for hi-z. From what the lay of the land looks like to me, all of the manufacturers have figured out that what many of us forum participants do, and what Takamine is suggesting, is that we plug-in whatever we brung that particular instance, into the front of the unit, record our tracks, swap it out for the next instrument/mic, record those, and keep going. If they offer one or two combo jacks, they make them hi-z/instrument capable. My Scarlett 18i8 has 4 combo jacks, two of which handle hi-z and all 4 with a software selectable pad for hot line levels. But in the lower channel count world, it appears to me that the manufacturers have listened.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 02/21/14 04:59 PM. Reason: clarity
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Thanks all for your input, it's greatly appreciated. The reason I mentioned the line level thing is the PreSonus user manual says the 1/4" inputs are instrument level inputs and plugging in a line level device could damage the unit. My guess is it'll work, they're just trying to cover themselves.
Thanks
Rich
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The average consumer user when confronted with not hearing an input often makes the dumb mistake of turning the gain up ALL THE WAY in an attempt to troubleshoot the "missing" audio...
Just plain dumb, and asking for damage to one piece of equipment or another.
You can't fix stupid.
--Mac
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Thanks all for your input, it's greatly appreciated. The reason I mentioned the line level thing is the PreSonus user manual says the 1/4" inputs are instrument level inputs and plugging in a line level device could damage the unit. My guess is it'll work, they're just trying to cover themselves.
Thanks Always turn the volume down to zero* before plugging in and unplugging anything. That solves that issue with line level devices possibly causing damage to circuits and speakers. (* do not confuse this with 0db.... they are entirely different levels)
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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(* do not confuse this with 0db.... they are entirely different levels) Also do not confuse this with 90 db. He won't like that. 
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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(* do not confuse this with 0db.... they are entirely different levels) Also do not confuse this with 90 db. He won't like that. Nah. I'm fine with that.
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