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I have BIAB 2013. I have not upgraded as of yet. In the past few months I created many different songs, for some of this songs I would like to use the harmonizer with audio but can't seem to get that human sound. I need to learn how to use this any tips would be very appricated thanks.
Bob...
Music is an expression that is a universal language, Never criticize anybody to harshly. They need time to grow but when they do, they do. Always be kind in what you say and do because the man upstairs is watching.
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Hi Bob, Good to see you. Hope all is well. Here's a link that PG Music have on their Youtube site that explains a bit about TC Helicon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3J6xqUEOTgThis is a great starting place. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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I watched that video, and yeah, while it's a cool and easy thing to use, it really sounds artificial. The average person nails it immediately that somethings fake. The best way to do harmony is to actually sing and record the harmony parts as unique tracks. Using some sort of pitch correction/altering software generally doesn't work well. Even with the best of the best, like Melodyne Editor. Having said that, I have used Melodyne Editor to create a harmony part which did work fairly well but I had to use some other studio tricks to get it sounding decent. It wasn't as simple as create the part and waa laa, studio perfect harmony. This song >>> http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12024980 is a prime example. I could not get the singer to record harmony tracks for several reasons.... so my only option was to use ME to create one. Soloed, they sound artificial. Not as good as a real one since the harmony was several steps musically from the original pitch. The further you move a note, the more artificial it sounds due to formants and artifacts from the process. When I moved the notes to create the harmony tracks, the trick I used was to keep the harmonies well down in the mix. The barber shop quartet thing, where all the voices are the same volume will show the artificial aspects and the artifacts plainly. Listen to the example I linked to and you will hear the harmony in the background just enough to add that full harmony feel, but picking out the individual harmony notes is not that easy. This is a common studio technique used to fatten vocals for a solo singer. It's used on many of the songs you hear on the radio. So.... use the TC to create the harmony tracks, then try keeping them low in the mix and see what that sounds like.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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It would be much better for you to ue the TC to "get" those harmony parts first, then use those resulting tracks to learn each harmony part in turn - and record your own voice or another's actually singing those parts, one at a time.
Avoid the idea that if something sounds not quite right that the way around that is to turn it down in the mix. My experience is that a bad sound is still bad, no matter the amplitude of it. It is still in there contributing the wrong things to the mix.
So at that point, a good production decision may be the better answer to the problem. Consider just eliminating those tracks entirely rather than trying to keep them in there.
Sometimes a decision such as that one may change the direction of the project, sure, but the chances of such a decision changing the direction for the better are worth pursuing.
Nobody will know that the harmonies are missing in action unless you tell them that piece of information. And the wise recordist never reveals that sort of thing. Just put it out there.
--Mac
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I will add when using a harmonizer be sure that your original vocal track is totally dry. That is have no effects on the original track as effects can confuse a harmonizer.
Also the fewer slurs you have the better the harmonization. Plus the further away from the original note the more cheesy the sound will get.
The Melodyne Editor is the best I have heard for harmonization as far as software goes. I have no experience with hardware harmonizers. But Melodye Editor is quite expensive when purchased when no sale is on.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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It would be much better for you to ue the TC to "get" those harmony parts first, then use those resulting tracks to learn each harmony part in turn - and record your own voice or another's actually singing those parts, one at a time.
Avoid the idea that if something sounds not quite right that the way around that is to turn it down in the mix. My experience is that a bad sound is still bad, no matter the amplitude of it. It is still in there contributing the wrong things to the mix.
So at that point, a good production decision may be the better answer to the problem. Consider just eliminating those tracks entirely rather than trying to keep them in there.
--Mac Yes, I agree mostly. I have been mixing all my BGV & BGVH tracks low in the mix regardless of their origins. Unless it's a Statler Bros sound I'm going for, which I never do, the vocals are all down in the mix except the one lead. And yeah, if the harmonies sounded "that bad" I would not include them and have done that very thing....opting not to have BGV at all. THis very situation occurred on my last song since the same situation occurred. In A World Without You Not able to get the singer to redo the track or record a harmony. ME wasn't able to get the BGVH tracks right so the tracks were deleted and a solo vox was used. No doubling, no nothing.... just one track of lead.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I just played with this a little. I tried to use it and it sounded very diffeent, not natural. I have read a few things that I will try thanks for the tip on what you do. I listened to the song that you provided and I see what you mean. Your song reminded me of a a female friend that I have that can sing like this. I posted this link on her facebook page. Here is what she sounds like.... just click on the picture on the payer until you hit Gina Alto Gina Alto On Airplay Direct
Music is an expression that is a universal language, Never criticize anybody to harshly. They need time to grow but when they do, they do. Always be kind in what you say and do because the man upstairs is watching.
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Thank you very much for this. This is now on my to do, to get list. Thanks...
Music is an expression that is a universal language, Never criticize anybody to harshly. They need time to grow but when they do, they do. Always be kind in what you say and do because the man upstairs is watching.
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I've been down this road...I'm on this road. I'm using Melodyne and Sonar's V-Vocal to fix my vocals. I tried using Helicon to find a harmony part like Mac mentioned too. Just didn't like that method.
Now I did use Nectar for harmony on a recent recording. It was okay, but I pulled those harmony parts way down like Herb said. I was listening to some current pro stuff on the radio and often the harmony is very subtle.
But, for me the best way is to 'discover' the harmony part I want and then learn it and sing it. I am doing that by plunking out the melody line on a cheap keyboard I have. Then I try a harmony a third above, let's say. I can manage to play a couple of notes at a time on the keys, and I know enough about music theory to get started. Then I drop the melody and just play and sing the harmony part over and over and over. Then I sing along with the melody recording over and over and over.
I sing in choirs...a part is a part. I don't know what the altos are singing, I'm singing my bass part, that's all I know, that's all I learned, in that situation the bass part is the melody. But, when the lead to your own song is locked in your brain and you are trying to now sing harmony instead, that's a little harder.
Keep at it. Good luck.
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If singing a harmony line doesn't come natural for you, the best way is to play the parts on a piano keyboard. Work it out a section at a time if need be. You have all the time in the world in a home studio.
I worked with a good singer who sang the lead parts just fine but could not, for the life of her, find and sing a harmony on her own. She was in the chorus at school so I asked her how she learned her parts and she described it to me.... So I played the harmony part I wanted her to sing on the piano..... we took it one short section at a time and used the auto punch feature on the DAW working through the tracks a section at a time. The result was good.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Yes, the repetitive practicing (redundant there...) of the particular harmony part until the singer knows the harmony in the same way that they know a melody is the way to do it.
If you are blessed with singers who have lots of experience at it, there may come a day when you can enjoy the streamlining of just saying something like, "let's try it 'one up and one down' or 'two down' etc. and everybody has the ears to know how to do that. Rare, but it exists.
--Mac
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Yes, I have 2 home studios. 1, 24 track, and one 16 track. but over the years I guess I have just gotten kind of lax in things. Practice does make perfect. I have a keyboard and could do this. I guess to learn how to do it is a very good thing. I have been singing since I was 10 but for some reason just never did put the practice into learning harmony. If I put the practice into the harmony, as much as I put the practice into writeing songs I will need no assistance. But, I am also going to look into a vocal harmonizer. Thanks for the tips and I am going to practice. Thanks for the comment.
Music is an expression that is a universal language, Never criticize anybody to harshly. They need time to grow but when they do, they do. Always be kind in what you say and do because the man upstairs is watching.
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I just sing the harmonies the best I can and then use melodyne to tweak them (ha, ha). On this example, I couldn't get melodyne to work in the DAW (it kept switching to rhythmic). I should have rebooted and tried again, but I just used the standalone melodyne and slammed them. It sounds a little fakey to me in parts. I might re-do some of them since I have changed the lyrics in bridge and need to adjust the ending. Say A Prayer For Me Tonight
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Backup harmonies can often get away with artifacts much easier than lead vox, and sometimes may even want to accentuate it.
Normally with a few B/U vocal harmony tracks running it becomes much less noticeable.
When Guitarhacker mentioned playing the piano part it reminded me of another way to fix backup vox; record that piano part as MIDI and use it to tune the audio track via either The TC Helicon Harmonizer or one of the other free tools. If you have a recent PG product you'll have the Harmonizer .. how to implement it depends on whether you are using BiaB, RB, or PT.
Latest RB requires right-click, select Generate Audio Harmony (using BB or PT),
at this point a window opens where you can set some parameters like how many bars, which track to use for for MIDI (that piano part you played and recorded), target track to write to, etc.
Then once you click OK from that screen you finally get to the TC Helicon Harmonizer.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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