PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Creating chord progression based on a melody?

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"If you take a look around you'll find us a pretty helpful and friendly bunch . . . "

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I use Finale (notation software) to write scores. To test this feature in Biab, I opened a session in Finale, created a piano track (non transposing instrument), and wrote a simple melody. I picked the Gm key. It was only one track. No double notes, no harmony...just one voice. When I imported that melody in Biab, I saw exactly the same notation. It was not transposed. I tried different styles, different settings..etc, but still it would spit out more wrong chords...Again, it's not a problem, may be this feature will be enhanced in the near future. At this point, I don't think if I'll consider suggesting Biab, for people who strictly need auto harmonization and such...

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You're talking a single note line, right? No bass note, no harmony? How in the world could any person much less a computer program come up with meaningful chords based on that? I guarantee you if you gave that line to me, Mac, my friend who literally escaped the communists and is a graduate of the Warsaw Conservatory, another friend who's out of Berkelee and lets say a killer bluegrass player and anybody else you might want to add would come up with wildly different chords if all we had to work with is a single note line and a key sig. If we're all blues players we might come up with different blues tunes but if everybody is from different musical backgrounds we're going to be all over the place.
Seriously, think about it for a minute. A single note in the key of Gm? I know you can pick a style and you are thinking that Biab should at least pick some chords that follow the form of that style. Are we to assume no accidentals or is the line strictly out of the Gm scale? If there's an E note somewhere in bar 5 is that supposed to be a Gm6, Bb-5, Am or a quick passing note over a Cm? That E note could be out of a Gbm7 too. You could easily have those chords in lots of tunes in Gm because there's no way to know if the single note in the melody is an accidental passing tone or a root. How many basic 3 chord rock and roll or country tunes have all kinds of accidentals in the melody? Tons. If the melody of a basic country song has a very common augmented fifth happening, usually the chord is still written as a simple major triad, maybe a dom 7th but a computer program is going to try to put the #5 in there every time but how can it know it's a #5 without the bass? Now what about a moving bass line? Maybe that part of the song could have the passing #5 in the melody and a third in the bass, what's the program supposed to do with that note then?
Experienced players can certainly come up with more or less interesting chords from an original single note line and key signature but man, would they be anything like what you think they should or could be? Who knows.

Bob

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"If you take a look around you'll find us a pretty helpful and friendly bunch . . . "

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And collectively, awesomely knowledgeable. Mac being first among equals.

R.

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"If you take a look around you'll find us a pretty helpful and friendly bunch . . . "

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And collectively, awesomely knowledgeable. Mac being first among equals.

R.

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how can anyone be first among equals?

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First, it's a figure of speech. It's also an opinion. If you are going to be rigidly literal and legalistic in your interpretation of the phrase, we prolly don't have much to say to one another. I tend to stick with the "pretty friendly" bunch. I've got better things to do than engage in petty arguments.

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We are equals in the sense that we almost all own and use PG Music products, and that we all have a right to share knowledge and express opinions here. I mention Mac specifically because he was personally addressed by the OP, and to whom I was mostly speaking.

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As far as he (Mac) is concerned, I am unaware of anyone on this site who is more knowledgeable and forthcoming about PG Music products, music in general, computer recording, and any number of other subjects to do with music or otherwise, or who is more active in all forums. In general, he is more likely to post a correct answer sooner than anyone else, including PG personnel.

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I have also had the privilege of speaking with him personally. Everything in the conversation reinforced all my impressions from the fora. I'm pretty sure that not everyone would want to take a long car trip with the man, but that's a matter of taste, innit? Has nothing to do with the many positive attributes he shares with us in abundance. In my few years here, I have had one difference in fact with the man. In very other matter I have agreed with or deferred to his knowledge and experience. There are not many others of whom I can say that.

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one thing for sure, this is not a pleasant forum to stick around. I don't care how long ago someone started using Biab, or when he escaped the communist. You've got to be able to understand, people have reasons to ask questions, and if you can't answer it, that's totally fine, but to attack a new member with attitude is not figure of speech, it's just foolish.

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Tritonkorg, welcome to the forum, this is a great place, and i am kinda confused as to why you think mac was attacking. I read the post carefully and it seemed to me several folks were trying to help, but you were dissatisfied with the answers. While we all understand what you want, the answers were right, at least as right as technology is today with this product. If you use a single note melody the chord possibilities are very vast. Sometimes when we are trying to get something done, or get an answer to a problem, it is frustrating when we do not get what we though we would.

As far as the advertising you mentioned above, the program did exactly what it said it generated a chord progression, you just happened not like it, but still it did it. Others suggested things to help, using other styles, adding a third, you did not want this. That is your choice, but to label anyone who attempted to help as "attacking" or any other name is kind of silly don't you think? I have know mac for a long time, and while he can be a bit salty at times, he is a true and honest guy. He has help just about everyone here. One thing i have come to know about him is that he has a ton of knowledge, and he acquired it through years of research, hard work, and effort. So if he gives it to you straight then it would behove you to listen and take the advice. If you don't like it fine, that is your choice.

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I have to say, this discussion has resulted in one of the worst collective failures in communication I have ever seen. Everyone meant well; no one is going away happy. Weird.

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I have to say, this discussion has resulted in one of the worst collective failures in communication I have ever seen. Everyone meant well; no one is going away happy. Weird. R.

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Spoken like a modal jazz guy!

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I sat orchestral classical Trumpet sections for years, man.

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Modal jazzers tend to think of minor as DORIAN minor, hence Am rather than A dim or half-dim seventh! Mac, you'd get a red "incorrect" check mark for that in music theory class (unless it was a jazz school)!

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I also took and passed all the classical music theory classes, university level, while still in high school. I know the differences. That was not my point at all.

This one

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yes, i'm talking about a single note line!!!

one thing for sure, this is not a pleasant forum to stick around. I don't care how long ago someone started using Biab, or when he escaped the communist. You've got to be able to understand, people have reasons to ask questions, and if you can't answer it, that's totally fine, but to attack a new member with attitude is not figure of speech, it's just foolish.

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I have to say, this discussion has resulted in one of the worst collective failures in communication I have ever seen. Everyone meant well; no one is going away happy. Weird. R.

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Indeed. I'm glad I didn't get involved. Well until now . I think it might be a good idea if the reharmonist feature (and indeed all the melody and soloist features) allowed you to specify modes rather than simply major or minor keys.
Meanwhile can you trick it into thinking specifically melodic minor? Hmm i don't think so somehow. But let me work on it.

Regards


Alan

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A true pro might not mention he has a masters for years if ever. A true pro knows who he is and could care less if everybody knows or not. If you were at a party and someone whispered in your ear the room was full of PhD's you might not be so quick to brag about your masters. There's some pro's on this forum who are better educated than you and are quite well known to the public and I'm being serious here. You can read their bio's on their company websites. You would be amazed at who is using Biab in their studios. There's also complete amateur hobbyists who are just messing around and a bunch like me who are somewhere in the middle.

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Ok, this is not a win win situation, but I've got to get back to you ….

Look, I completely disagree with you on this. At best, it could've convinced me when I was 7 years old . Your definition of a "True Pro" was a failure. That whole paragraph was a classic fallacy. You are contradicting yourself. Company website??? Why go that far? I just looked around on this forum little bit, and found a lot of information about accomplished musicians. According to you, they should not have posted those information on here right? They should not have shared their music? In fact someone on this thread just said that he sat in the trumpet section for years. Is that bragging? It'd be totally impossible and something totally meaningless to do if everybody kept to themselves about their accomplishments and passion. We get a lot of new users on duc, and other forums on regular basis. They usually start their first post, with a problem that they have. When I know what their background is, and who I'm talking to, it makes it so much easier to target the problem, and have a conversation with them based on the level of their knowledge. If they wanted to keep it a secret "forever" we would have no idea where to start from. You can't jump to a conclusion like that based on some lousy definitions. You just accused me of bragging. I gotta say you're being too insecure! Although, i'm %100 sure, that's not the case, and you might just be a nice guy, but you asked for it. If I were you, I wouldn't even try using that definition again. It's a bit childish and out of this world. You’re not gonna be able to use this definition at all, if you want to have an intelligent conversation with pro musicians.

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I would like you to start a thread about Melodyne. I've read about it, seen the demos and I think you're the only one who's posted here who actually has it. I think it sells for around $500 or so right?

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oh, no, I’m already responsible for creating the worst thread ever in this forum. I better not risk starting a second one. As far as the price goes, I bought it about 4 years ago. I bought the one that had all the features (I think it‘s called Studio or something), but I don’t think if it was that expensive. I got it through the school though. Oops I bragged again. lol

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You have to take into account the fact that the basic Biab and Real Band is like half that not counting all the Real Tracks so when one function or other doesn't measure up to another product, you have to take that into consideration. This creating chords function is a complete minor sideshow compared to what Biab really is. That creates a totally new song from scratch in whatever style complete with melody, chords, a bridge and a title that you can copywrite. I totally agree with your comment about the advertising btw. It's technically correct, it will give you some chords but reading the ad, it implies it would do it a bit better than it does but that's commerce.

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Amen to that.I never said anything against it. Let me quote myself. I clearly said at the very beginning that Biab was a great software. And it was not a problem if it couldn’t do that one thing. And I left it there, but that didn’t go very well with some of you. You wanted to prove me wrong at any cost , no matter what I said. Some even found it so shocking that I was asking about generating a chord progression based on a single melody. As if I broke a religious taboo or something. Just take it easy. There’s so much information in a melody that a software could use to make more educated guesses. Those information are there, but at this point, Biab doesn’t know exactly what to do with them, so it just spits out some random chords that are somehow related to the key or not. That’ll eventually change. I would not recommand Biab for a student who’s only interested in this feature. But i would certainly recommand it for a lot of other things that it CAN do.That’s all I was trying to say. If you add a bass line, or harmony, you’re actually telling Biab what chords to pick. That’s more like filling in the blank. That’s not generating chords based on a melody. I never said Biab is useless. If you can’t accept that,it’s up to you. I wasn’t asking for my money back or something like that. You’ve got to make some room in this forum for something that could show imperfections little bit. That’s the only way to improve products. Ganging up, and trying to make someone look bad with weak arguments won’t get you far. Had I known that simple question was going to turn into this…so much time got wasted. Oh well, life is hard when you’re not a “True pro”. Feel free to delete this whole thread if you like. I gotta thank people who tried to help though.