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Hi all - I have been struggling with endless song generation times for simple songs in Logic Pro X. Some songs taking over ten minutes to generate. I am running the latest Apple Mac mini and latest versions of OS, Logic and BB.

Turns out that if you run Logic in "Rosetta" mode, rather than natively, the problem goes away. Not sure if anyone else has this issue, but to make Logic launch in Rosetta mode you have to get info on the app and set the checkbox "Open in Rosetta".

I hope that PG Music are working on a native version as all Macs will be running Apple Silicon soon.

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What Generate times do you get in the BBPlugin Standalone (not the main Biab app) ?
I wish I was up Noosa or Coolum.

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With stand-alone I think it’s generally in the 10-30 second range, depending on song complexity.
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Originally Posted By: Robert Wood
Hi all - I have been struggling with endless song generation times for simple songs in Logic Pro X. Some songs taking over ten minutes to generate. I am running the latest Apple Mac mini and latest versions of OS, Logic and BB.

Turns out that if you run Logic in "Rosetta" mode, rather than natively, the problem goes away. Not sure if anyone else has this issue, but to make Logic launch in Rosetta mode you have to get info on the app and set the checkbox "Open in Rosetta".

I hope that PG Music are working on a native version as all Macs will be running Apple Silicon soon.

Very interesting - I have not noticed any issues like this on my M1 Macbook. I just tested the latest AU plugin in the latest native ARM versions of GarageBand, Logic, and Reaper, as well as standalone, and the generation times for the same song ranged from 36 to 40 seconds.

What version of the DAW plugin are you using? It should say at the bottom of the plugin window.


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Simon - even without any of these M1 related bugs the generation times really are far too long.

To the point that one has to reconsider and adjust ones workflow to compensate - such as using the standalone to do all trialling out of different styles and arrangements - and then only using the plugin once one is sure of the style and song arrangement -

which defeats the whole point - because one might just as well then simply export and drag and drop all the tracks from BIAB standalone into the DAW and forget about the plugin.

PG really needs to focus on making generation times inside the plugin the same if not better than standalone.

Its all very well having thousands of real track style choices if one cannot try out a load of styles on one's chord progression before committing because of the huge waiting times involved with the plugin.

I've found the waiting times in BIAB standalone acceptable for many years now. Quicker always helps but the plugin times are just infuriating and for me unusable

Last edited by nonchai; 08/27/21 07:16 AM.

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nonchai,

I'm confident PG Music is working to reduce audio file generation times in the plug-ins. I've noticed that is a frequent topic discussion within the forum and has been mentioned in some of the release notes in past updates.

Do you mean the main Band-in-a-Box program when you use the term standalone? I ask because there is a standalone plug-in. The standalone plug-in is the same as the other, VST, AAX, AU, etc. versions of the plug-in with the major difference being the standalone plug-in does not require a host.

I understand the main program and the plug-ins differ in how they generate audio files.

The plug-in generates complete audio files prior to playback while the main program generates about eight bars of each audio file then starts playback.

As far as I can tell the main program can read ahead on the chord sheet so it can build audio tracks as a background task. The plug-in does have look ahead capability because it uses a helper file to look at the complete chord chart and then build complete audio files.


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I did post a better way in the Win BBPlugin forum
Instant Generate & Play of RealTracks/Drums in BiabVST
I can get instant generate of a RT/RD in Reaper playing direct from USB 3.0 hard drive.


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Originally Posted By: nonchai
Simon - even without any of these M1 related bugs the generation times really are far too long.

To the point that one has to reconsider and adjust ones workflow to compensate - such as using the standalone to do all trialling out of different styles and arrangements - and then only using the plugin once one is sure of the style and song arrangement -

which defeats the whole point - because one might just as well then simply export and drag and drop all the tracks from BIAB standalone into the DAW and forget about the plugin.

PG really needs to focus on making generation times inside the plugin the same if not better than standalone.

Its all very well having thousands of real track style choices if one cannot try out a load of styles on one's chord progression before committing because of the huge waiting times involved with the plugin.

I've found the waiting times in BIAB standalone acceptable for many years now. Quicker always helps but the plugin times are just infuriating and for me unusable

The main difference between the main BIAB app and the DAW plugin (either DAW Plugin Standalone, VST3, AU, and AAX) is that in the main BIAB app playback starts before rendering is complete - basically, the program waits until let's say 20 seconds of the song is generated, then starts playing while the rest of the song continues generating. The DAW plugin requires the song to be completely generated before it can play back.

You can tell the main BIAB app to generate everything in full before playback, for testing the speed of the plugin vs BIAB. To do this, open Realtrack Preferences and disable "Speed Up Generation of RealTracks". I've done this and tested the plugin on my Intel Mac compared to the BIAB app, and the difference is that the plugin is a bit slower than the main app, but not by a lot. I found no discernable difference between the AU plugin and the VST3 plugin.

The difference is much more pronounced on my M1 Mac thanks to Rosetta, but not as slow as you're experiencing.

Can you time the following for us?

Band-in-a-Box App (disable Speed Up, then use a stopwatch to time the first play of a song from when you press play to when the song starts playing)
BIAB DAW Plugin Standalone (you can open this from your BIAB folder under BBPlugin/Files)
BIAB DAW Plugin in DAW (native ARM)
BIAB DAW Plugin in DAW (Rosetta)

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
Speed up RT Generation.png (20.27 KB, 62 downloads)

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They are both the same app, it's just that the bbw4 does the extra step of writing the file from RAM to wav.

Flow chart:
Old Way Create file to RAM
New Way Play direct from hard drive





So on the bottom is the RT source file with all the chords that were played, Biab chooses the sections it wants to play from the source file and plays them back in linear order on it's timeline direct from hard drive.
FULL SCREEN


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hello there from Australia. I have the latest updates but when ni attempt to do a video, I get the spinning ball. it does not complete to video even after 30 minutes. if I use the old 32bit version. the video features works as expected. cheers. john.

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hello. same sentiments about the plugin's rendering time. it is virtually useless in my workflow. regards. john.

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I have a 2013 Macbook pro (Intel I7) and I have no issues with rendering times.
I use BIAB MAc (latest) outside of Logic. IOW, not the plugin
I find this separate approach no great inconvenience to my workflow but understand it may bother others

One thing I have noticed is that rendering time are orders of magnitude difference if you are saving to an Icloud drive vice a local drive. This may may not explain your particular problem, but it might.

This whole M chip Rosetta nonsense is a real throwback to the 80's. I feel for those who are slugging through it.

Personally I'm holding off on an M chip upgrade Till BIAB runs native on it.


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Originally Posted By: robbo
hello. same sentiments about the plugin's rendering time. it is virtually useless in my workflow. regards. john.

Hi Robbo, what are your computer specs - CPU, Ram, SSD?

In Band-in-a-Box, go to the Help menu, and click About Band-in-a-Box. Near the top of that window, it will have Version 20xx and a number in brackets - what is the number in brackets?


Originally Posted By: mrgeeze
I have a 2013 Macbook pro (Intel I7) and I have no issues with rendering times.
I use BIAB MAc (latest) outside of Logic. IOW, not the plugin
I find this separate approach no great inconvenience to my workflow but understand it may bother others

One thing I have noticed is that rendering time are orders of magnitude difference if you are saving to an Icloud drive vice a local drive. This may may not explain your particular problem, but it might.

This whole M chip Rosetta nonsense is a real throwback to the 80's. I feel for those who are slugging through it.

Personally I'm holding off on an M chip upgrade Till BIAB runs native on it.

I also have no issues with render time on either my i5 iMac or my M1 Macbook. The M1 is much faster of course, as any comparison between a 2015 and 2020 computer should be.

Good suggestion on the iCloud drive - if anyone here is saving songs to iCloud, can you try saving your songs to your Desktop instead?

To be honest, the M1 for me is very fast even using Rosetta. Yes, it's slower than native apps, or a similarly spec'd Intel machine, but for anyone upgrading from an older machine the M1 is light speed. For comparison, [u]using Rosetta[/i] my M1 benchmarks slightly less than double my 2015 i5 iMac, and using a native ARM benchmark the difference is about 2.5 times. Compared to your 2013 Macbook the difference is around 2.5 to 6 times the speed (depending on which Macbook you have).


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hi simon. build 511. Mac Pro mid 2010 5,1. 32Gb RAM. SSD for Boot Drive. Real Tracks and Real Drums are on a 2TB internal WD Black Caviar.
Some good news...... i checked/compared your USB drives contents against the content on the above partition. Quite a few Drum files hadn't been installed properly. Mainly drummers Shannon and Alex. well, it took a long time but all now seem to be present and there are no more N/A's best. john.

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Excellent, glad to hear you're up and running John! Please let us know if you require any further assistance.


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