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On my oldest ThinkPad, if I press the N key (either upper or lower case) it types a W.

All the other keys work OK.

I suspect the keyboard is kaput but I thought I'd check here for any ideas before I replace it.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Notes ♫

PS Fortwnately I dow't use it ow the Iwterwet or I'd sigw my wame Wotes Wortow laugh

Last edited by Notes Norton; 12/13/21 12:31 PM.

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If you have a wireless keyboard you should try it to see if it works correctly. If I hate the keyboard on my laptop and use a wireless keyboard and a mouse all the time.

The only keyboard I like less is my iPhone...lol God only knows what it will type...lol

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Have you checked to make sure the keyboard locale settings (language) haven't changed?
I've seen the 'N' type other wrong characters, but not 'W' ..
Could also be a keyboard driver issue


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Bring up an On-Screen Keyboard, and see if the problem persists. If so, yes, it could be a Locale setting. If not, it's probably the keyboard.

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Nice idea VT


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There are free key press utilities that will report the ASCII code for each key when pressed. But from your description, I don’t hold out much hope.


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Here's a quick and dirty one I wrote in a hurry about 20 years ago. It still works.

Download KeyPress Detect from this link

Run the downloaded file

Pressing N should show 78 N (78 is the ASCII value for N)

Pressing W should show 87 W (87 is the ASCII value for W)

(It is safe to run, in case you get an A/V or Defender alert.)


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Thanks!

I tried the on-screen keyboard. Of course, I couldn't type on-screen as it came out ow-screew, but keyboard was enough.

Unfortunately, the n on the on-screen keyboard types the proper letter.

I have a USB keyboard somewhere, the problem is finding which "safe place until I need it" I stored it in.

I've downloaded the keyboard check, need to move it to the other computer.

A lot of good ideas. You guys are a great help.

I've used ThinkPad computers for about 20 years, and if this turns out to be a keyboard issue, it will be the first time. When I bought the USB keyboard, it was for a Dell desktop computer.

So I'll try the other suggestions, then decide if this 5 year old computer is worth saving (cost of parts and time involved).

Thanks again,

Notes ♫


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If a USB keyboard works I'd contemplate keeping the computer and just using the USB keyboard, or even better get a wireless keyboard so it can be anywhere during a show or rehearsal (yeah still uses a USB slot most likely).

Heck, back in the day Mac and I both had extra keyboards laying on the floor with most of the keys ripped out so we could use the Space bar with our foot to stop/start Biab or RB/PT.
Extra keyboards are cheap, especially when you know they are laying around in the house somewhere.


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I'd advise having a USB keyboard as a wired fall-back.

There's a place I gig occasionally that has some strong radio signal nearby, that jams WiFi, Bluetooth and even my car keys. I'd expected to use my Ui24R mixer via WiFi from a tablet, but it simply wouldn't play ball. Fortunately I did have a notepad PC and a network cable and at least one of the devices was hermaphrodite.


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Interesting N and W ASCII codes/values are 78 and 87, may be a clue.


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Originally Posted By: etcjoe
Interesting N and W ASCII codes/values are 78 and 87, may be a clue.


My computer is dyslexic, just like its owner!!!

I didn't know dyslexia was contagious.

I haven't found the USB keyboard yet, outdoor my gig got cancelled yesterday due to rain, so Mrs. Notes and I took the day off for some fun.

Every now and then a day of fun is good.

Today I resume the search for the USB keyboard.

I'm not fond of wireless things when I don't need wireless. Batteries are not good for the environment. I use rechargeable cells when I require them, but still, I figure it's better not to consume them at all, unless there is a need.

I've been a musician all my life, and wires are something I'm used to putting up with.

Insights, incites and some lame humor by Notes ♫


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OK, I found the wired keyboard. It was where I looked for it first, but it had fallen behind some of the other things on the shelf.

It's a ThinkPad keyboard, it works perfectly and even the 'eraser head' works (which will keep me from reaching the mouse).

I didn't install any new drivers, just plugged it in and used.

So I think the evidence is that my 'built in' keyboard is probably failing.

It's an old ThinkPad computer that used to run Windows 8 and I upgraded as soon as Win10 offered the free upgrade. I use it basically as a recording device. I do MIDI work on my main computer, send the MIDI to 7 synth modules. The audio outputs go through a mixer to the old computer.

I find using two computers a lot easier than playing and recording on the same computer. I can have the play and the record controls and screens up, visible, and working at the same time.

So, I'm thinking of just using the wired keyboard rather than spending time on repairing the old computer. Lenovo doesn't seem to have a replacement on their site, Amazon has a compatible one by Autens for $42 (perhaps shipping?) and it might take the better part of a day to replace the keyboard. If I find using the wired keyboard to be too much of a hassle, I'll take that route.

Thanks again for your generous help and advice.

Notes ♫


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I'm assuming as well that the keyboard itself is borked, but one final thing you can test is to load into the BIOS and see if there's a place you can type (stay away from the Password section, in case you enter an untypeable password), basically just to try and bypass the operating system. Alternatively, if the computer is old enough, boot into DOS and try the keyboard there, or a bootable Linux CD or something.

But yeah, it's probably dead. It is interesting that the ASCII codes are 78 and 87, but unlikely since once you convert them into binary they're 01001110 and 01010111, so they're more than a couple flipped bits.


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Thanks. That sounds like a good idea to bypass the OS.

It's a Windows 8 computer that was upgraded to Win10 so I don't know how to boot in DOS or even if I can, but I think if I hit Enter as the ThinkPad screen pops up I can get somewhere.

This is the very first time a ThinkPad gave me any trouble. And it's an old, former Win8 upgraded to win10 so even if it's not cost/time effective to fix it, it has served me well.

Notes ♫


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I've been following this. First, yes, Thinkpads are tanks; very solid. If they survive as many gigs as you play, IBM should get a testimonial from you. Second, I think if you boot to the BIOS, there might be a place where you are required to type a few letters and I think that's the kind of test Simon is suggesting.


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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
I don't know how to boot in DOS or even if I can, but I think if I hit Enter as the ThinkPad screen pops up I can get somewhere.

You should be able to repeatedly hit the F2 key when you turn on the laptop to boot into BIOS.




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F2, F12, or Del. Maybe others. Depends on the BIOS maker.


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Originally Posted By: etcjoe
Interesting N and W ASCII codes/values are 78 and 87, may be a clue.

Well, probably not.
The bit pattern for N is 01001110
The bit pattern for W is 01010111
So the processor would see those as two totally dissimilar values.


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Thanks again!

I'll let you know the result.

We got a new, weekly gig, and we're learning a couple of new songs first. They were suggested by the waitress, who knows her customers.

Since I do my own backing tracks, that means if BiaB doesn't have compatible styles, I need to learn and then record the drum track, bass track, and all the comp tracks (except for what we will play live).

It's time-consuming, but IMO it makes us sound better than the competition who mostly use karaoke tracks. They can be in our key, I can do a custom arrangement, and I can mix minor things that make it sound more live like louder backbeats on the snare, advance or retard the bass a couple of tics to either bring out the bass note or the thump of the kick drum, and so on.

It may be a lot of work, but it's fun work, and if lucky I'll get to play each song thousands of times, and having it sound better to me increases my enjoyment of my job.

I'll let you know the result.

In the meantime, if you have any new ideas, I'll add them to the mix when I get these songs done.

Our old weekly gig is coming to an end. The owner of the venue is also a musician and wants the day. He likes what we did for him, and to show his appreciation has recommended us to his competition, who was happy to have us.

This is a weird business. We're building a crowd, so the owner wants the date, but because he likes us is happy to encourage us to go to his competitor, which will diminish the crowd we built up at his venue.

Ah, but stranger things have happened in this biz. I'm glad we're not losing a week-day, in public gig.

Notes ♫


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Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
Originally Posted By: etcjoe
Interesting N and W ASCII codes/values are 78 and 87, may be a clue.

Well, probably not.
The bit pattern for N is 01001110
The bit pattern for W is 01010111
So the processor would see those as two totally dissimilar values.

I realize that, it was just interesting to me that they just happen to be mirrors of each other non binary speaking.


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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton


Our old weekly gig is coming to an end. The owner of the venue is also a musician and wants the day. He likes what we did for him, and to show his appreciation has recommended us to his competition, who was happy to have us.

This is a weird business. We're building a crowd, so the owner wants the date, but because he likes us is happy to encourage us to go to his competitor, which will diminish the crowd we built up at his venue.

Ah, but stranger things have happened in this biz. I'm glad we're not losing a week-day, in public gig.

Notes ♫



Got the email notice about this. It is weird that he would not just take another day and keep you where you were bringing in customers. Unless he wants to play every day? Anyway, hope it works out. My job may be taking me towards St. Lucie, so that would be good for me. Of course you are working/playing while I am working during those hours.


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Originally Posted By: etcjoe
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton


Our old weekly gig is coming to an end. The owner of the venue is also a musician and wants the day. He likes what we did for him, and to show his appreciation has recommended us to his competition, who was happy to have us.

This is a weird business. We're building a crowd, so the owner wants the date, but because he likes us is happy to encourage us to go to his competitor, which will diminish the crowd we built up at his venue.

Ah, but stranger things have happened in this biz. I'm glad we're not losing a week-day, in public gig.

Notes ♫



Got the email notice about this. It is weird that he would not just take another day and keep you where you were bringing in customers. Unless he wants to play every day? Anyway, hope it works out. My job may be taking me towards St. Lucie, so that would be good for me. Of course you are working/playing while I am working during those hours.


He has 7 nights of entertainment, his wife does 4 nights, and the others are covered by people who have been with him much longer than we have, so it's proper that they get loyalty.

I suspect he has been running the business end of the venue and is just missing performing. I can't say as I blame him, and I appreciate the extra effort he made to make sure we were still gigging somewhere else. Nobody has ever done that for us before.

We had a 12 year running gig at another competitor. COVID came, new owners bought the old place, and they don't know what kind of money we brought in because the old owners used a 'simplified accounting method' (we got cash, which I of course reported to the IRS as this is what I do for a living).

The new owners decided to hire single acts that do sonic wallpaper. I wish them luck, I hope it works for them, and I hold no ill feelings.

I've been in this biz long enough to know gigs come and go, and it isn't a big deal when someone wants a change. 12 years, once per week, in the same venue was a good ride.

Covid was the 13th year, so I guess in this case 13 was unlucky. Now we are working on #14 with the same afternoon party, but at a new venue, and the manager seems excited to host us.

We also did 20 years at a particular Yacht Club, two evenings per month. A new manager comes in and the first thing he did was change all the entertainers. I don't think too much about losing the gig, I found replacements, I do think fondly of the 20-year run and the friends we made with the club members.

Thanks to lingering COVID variants, we are still only doing outdoor gigs. I've refused a couple of indoor gigs which I think were risky to my health. I'd rather err on the safe side.

We have an RV resort that we gig at twice a month, and have been doing that for quite a few years. It has 900 pads and in the winter 600 are filled by Canadians, mostly from Quebec. They are just starting to trickle in. Nice people. We missed them and hope that they don't get called back to Canada due to omicron.

I'm glad to be gigging after 1.5 years off due to the plague. I'm not gigging as much as I am used to, but at least I'm getting my ya-yas out and making a few bucks.

Life is the perfect way to pass the time of day, and gigging is Mrs.Notes and my second favorite thing to do.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫


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I got a chance to reboot the other computer in the non-Windows mode. It's the keyboard.

I haven't decided if I am just going to use the USB keyboard or try to fix it with a 40-some dollar aftermarket replacement. It depends on how much hassle the USB keyboard turns out to be.

It's my first ThinkPad hardware failure. And so far I've gotten excellent use out of it.

Notes ♫


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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
I got a chance to reboot the other computer in the non-Windows mode. It's the keyboard.

I haven't decided if I am just going to use the USB keyboard or try to fix it with a 40-some dollar aftermarket replacement. It depends on how much hassle the USB keyboard turns out to be.

It's my first ThinkPad hardware failure. And so far I've gotten excellent use out of it.

Notes ♫

Well I can't say I didn't expect that, but it was worth a shot.

Keyboard replacement on most Thinkpads is usually straightforward - My old X220 only required 2 screws to swap it. Of course, depending on how old said Thinkpad is, buying a cheap used replacement might be the cost of the keyboard itself. What model of Thinkpad is it?


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Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music
<...snip...> What model of Thinkpad is it?

L540. I usually get the T series, but when I needed one, they had this big sale on the L series, so I got it.

It has served me well for 9 years running, so I can't complain.

I see replacement keyboards on Amazon from about $35 to $50, and I suspect taking one out and putting the other in wouldn't be too difficult.

I'm sure there is a YouTube video that shows how laugh

Notes ♫


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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton


I'm sure there is a YouTube video that shows how laugh

Notes ♫


I'm sure there are several to show you how not to as well!!!

Joe


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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music
<...snip...> What model of Thinkpad is it?

L540. I usually get the T series, but when I needed one, they had this big sale on the L series, so I got it.

It has served me well for 9 years running, so I can't complain.

I see replacement keyboards on Amazon from about $35 to $50, and I suspect taking one out and putting the other in wouldn't be too difficult.

I'm sure there is a YouTube video that shows how laugh

Notes ♫

If $35-50 is worth keeping the machine, it might be worth a try. On my previous Thinkpads it was VERY easy to change.

Here's the hardware maintenance manual for that machine: https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/l440_l540_hmm_en_sp40a26004.pdf

It seems to be 6 screws and 1 ribbon connector to replace the keyboard, so assuming it is in fact the keyboard itself (which seems very likely) then that should do it for you.


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Thanks!

I'm over 90% sure it's the keyboard as the on-screen keyboard works, an external USB keyboard works, and in the DOS-Like non-Windows mode the same problem arises.

The computer itself probably has years of service left for the function I'm using it for now.

Decembers are busy, the first two weeks of January are usually slower, so it seems like the time to put one of those aftermarket keyboards in.

I suspect the more expensive ones would be better, but I'll investigate reviews first. One nice thing about ThinkPad keyboards is they feel nice under my fingers.

Notes ♫


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Yeah I'm pretty certain it's the keyboard as well - my only thought being if it happens to be a problem with the PS/2 bus as that's how Thinkpads connect the keyboard and mouse. I'd say chances of that are slim to none though.

I agree, Thinkpads are usually among the best keyboards going, and is a large part of why I buy them.


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It's always great to hear how other Band-in-a-Box® users create their songs, especially when they explain in detail what they're doing. Like Henry Clarke's YouTube Channel, Henry Clarke - Senior Musicians Unite! There you'll find his ALL Band-in-a-Box Tutorials playlist with over 50 videos! His top-three most watched videos include "How to Get Started with Band-in-a-Box," "How I use the Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box," and "How to Create An Effective Solo Using Band-in-a-Box" - however he touches on many other topics and also demonstrates his own Band-in-a-Box® songs in the Band-in-a-Box Created Songs playlist!

You're guaranteed to find some helpful videos when you visit Henry Clarke's channel!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Italian for Windows is Here!

Ci siamo dati da fare e abbiamo aggiunto oltre 50 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria raccolta di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 222 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 3, Playable RealDrums Set 2, due nuovi set di "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 e altro ancora!

Tutti Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 French for Windows is Here!


Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 et bien plus encore!

Tous Packages | Nouvelles Fonctionnalités

Video: Making a Song with Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V

Take your Band-in-a-Box® project to a whole new level when you incorporate ChatGPT and Synth V to add lyrics and vocals to your song!

We wanted to demonstrate how this is done with our video, where we show you how to go from nothing to a finished "radio ready" modern pop song by combining the features of Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V!

Listen to the finished song, so you get a listen to the finished product: https://demos.pgmusic.com/misc/behindthefame.m4a

If you like it, watch the video. Either way, let's hear your comments!

Henry Clarke: Revolutionize Your Band-in-Box® Tracks with Regenerating Function

One of the new features added with Band-in-Box® 2024 is the Tracks Window, which will look familiar if you've worked with other DAWs.

Henry Clarke explains why he loves the Re-generation function within the Tracks Window in their video Revolutionize Your Band-in-Box® Tracks with Regenerating Function.

Watch video.

Learn even more about what the Tracks Window can do with our video Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Tracks Window.

User Video: Convert MIDI Chords into AI Vocal Harmonies with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®

The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!

His latest video, Convert MIDI Chords into AI Vocal Harmonies with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!

Watch: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box


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