Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#704647 02/14/22 06:30 AM
User Showcase
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
The Devil's Staircase

An adaptation of a Disklavier piano recording of György Ligeti’s Étude No. 13: L'escalier du diable / The Devil’s Staircase. The piece is noteworthy for, among other things, including possibly the most extreme dynamic marking ever intended to be taken seriously, an octuple forte, ffffffff

This is Experiment #2 in using BIAB to create new solo tracks for weird classical music. This violin solo is, I think, a lot more user-friendly than #1's electric slide guitar solo was.

Of course, it’s still life in Hell.

I took the MIDI performance and BIABerized it to create a chord sheet, then generated a band backing and a violin solo, keeping only the solo. But it didn’t hang together very well, so I had Logic make a MIDI track from the solo, then quantized piano and violin to a fixed rhythm and to Logic’s “Japanese” scale (C – Db – F – G – Ab). This completely violates the score of the original piece, of course, and I am well aware of what happened when Stanley Kubrick tried similar funny business with Mr. Ligeti’s music, but it works for this kind of crazy material and allows me to engage BIAB.

I added a few hot licks on Logic’s Heavy Metal Organ and Medieval Recorder, and made some manual tweaks to the solo, derived from RealTrack "Fid,Sol,CltReelAndy,Ev16,110 (3856)".

Running time: 4:53

Original performance files by Aaron Kurz:
https://www.yamahaden.com/midi-files/advanced-search/18037

YouTube video by Pierre-Laurent Aimard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoLam2O3gtY

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
aaaaaaa.jpg (322.55 KB, 155 downloads)
Last edited by Mark Hayes; 02/15/22 04:21 PM.
User Showcase
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,312
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,312
I love most of this... I'm also a huge fan of M.C. Escher's art...
The middle of your piece was again, OMH... but then, so much of everything is.


Bandcamp
Soundcloud
Win-11; BiaB-2024-latest Beta;
Cakewalk; Melodyne-5; Scaler 2; NI Komplete:
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20



User Showcase
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Originally Posted By: bloc-head
I love most of this... I'm also a huge fan of M.C. Escher's art...
The middle of your piece was again, OMH... but then, so much of everything is.

Thanks. If I understand you, the part you didn't like was the "bells", which has the pianist chilling a bit and is (apart from instrumentation) the only part that's really true to the score/performance. Rhythm quantization added nothing, and I didn't need the scale quantization to glue it to the solo, so I hoped to provide some relief from the nail-gun-to-the-head effect and break the piece up. If you aren't a fan of the dissonance, you can blame that on György. =8^)

Last edited by Mark Hayes; 02/14/22 08:36 AM.
User Showcase
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,322
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,322
That's pretty interesting. Reading your description of how you created this.... you put a lot of work and thought into it. Kudos on that.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
User Showcase
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 769
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 769
Very interesting, Mark.
Your description shows the extent of your exertions in construction and arrangement. Accolades for your imagination, tenacity and verve! That said, it's not the sort of melody I could readily put on a loop while I'm writing my novel.
It would, I feel, work well as background (or even foreground) music for a documentary or a film about a lunatic asylum.
I am glad it was the first piece of music I listened to upon waking, rather than the last piece before bedtime. wink

Kind regards,

Ghostgum


My music may not set the world on fire but if it causes a glow in just one person's heart, it has all been worthwhile smile
User Showcase
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,554
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,554
Very interesting piece of music. The first thing I thought of a start was chaos and panic. When imagining it with the art work it fit perfectly. Very well done.


Scott Collingwood
https://soundcloud.com/scottt709
https://soundcloud.com/spiritlevel-ca
https://www.youtube.com/@SpiritLevel-ge3hm/
User Showcase
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Guitarhacker, Ghostgum, Scott C,

Thank you, gentlemen, for your comments!

This certainly was a labor of crazy love.

Hopefully I've been clear enough about who did what here. I know I did something, though I can't claim authorship, OTOH I'm sure György's Ghost would not appreciate having this attributed to him, what with changing the notes and all. (I guess I could tag it something like "A Devil's Staircase, after György Ligeti", and not specify any author, whatever that would mean...)

Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in)
30003.3.1.gif (2.43 KB, 96 downloads)
Last edited by Mark Hayes; 02/14/22 03:37 PM.
User Showcase
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,629
Veteran
Online Content
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,629
Hi, Mark.

Interesting bit of frenetic music. ffffff is a bit tiring to listen to after a while, but fortunately MIDI doesn't really go that high.

With the violin on top, I didn't really notice the "climbing" effect that's in the original music. Weird.

The middle section was so different, it didn't seem to fit at all.

Cool experiment, nonetheless. laugh


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
User Showcase
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,248
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,248
I wonder what Beck would've done with it...
Frenetic it is and it'd be hard yakka to perform.
I enjoyed the "bell" section - particularly the "fall" into it.
Those percussive parts of the piano in the last minute or so are cool.
I think a piano would need a holiday after a pounding like that.
Good fun Mark, another cross training session for the brain.


Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
User Showcase
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Originally Posted By: dcuny
ffffff is a bit tiring to listen to after a while, but fortunately MIDI doesn't really go that high.

Ligeti must have been smiling when he wrote that. I imagine him saying, "This one goes to eleven!"

Quote:
With the violin on top, I didn't really notice the "climbing" effect that's in the original music. Weird.

I can explain, I think.

1) BIAB doesn't know its bass from its treble, in terms of which end of a piano is being played and what the soloist should do. I didn't want to transpose the violin to follow the piano range (I tried, yuck) so it doesn't climb the way the piano does. My conceptual solution: the piano is the staircase, the fiddle is the feet flying up it.

2) I couldn't find where (if anywhere) Apple says what Logic's "Japanese" scale is, so I experimented and found it to be, for the key of C:

C – Db – F – G – Ab

Some pretty big holes in there, considering we're coming from a chromatic composition, so this quantization makes for some jumpy jumping vs. smooth ascending.

Quote:
The middle section was so different, it didn't seem to fit at all.

That's fair. I think perhaps I will try not dropping the pitch quantization, for that part, just the rhythm.

Quote:
Cool experiment, nonetheless. laugh

Thanks for listen + comment, always much appreciated.

Last edited by Mark Hayes; 02/15/22 07:07 AM.
User Showcase
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Originally Posted By: rayc
I wonder what Beck would've done with it...
Frenetic it is and it'd be hard yakka to perform.

Beck's "Colors" is available as a Logic demo file. Lots of tracks, many audio but many MIDI, too. Could be a fun playground for plunderphonics.

I had to look this up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Yakka

Quote:
I enjoyed the "bell" section - particularly the "fall" into it.
Those percussive parts of the piano in the last minute or so are cool.
I think a piano would need a holiday after a pounding like that.

Mixed feedback about the bell section, I think I'll make another pass without the excessive attempt to restore authenticity.

Indeed, about the pounding. I feel guilty thinking that a real person actually played this, and here I am opening a MIDI file and giving it to a computer. =8^(

Quote:
Good fun Mark, another cross training session for the brain.

Thanks. It did help me get started this morning.

Last edited by Mark Hayes; 02/15/22 07:22 AM.
User Showcase
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
OK, based on YOUR COMMENTS I have made the following significant change:

I applied the same pitch quantization to the "bell" section as to the rest of the piece, constraining it to the pentatonic scale described, while still sparing it rhythmic quantization.

This makes the listening a whole lot less difficult. I have decided to go for the easy listening and tolerate the guilt feelings.

The link up top is now to the revised piece. The changed part is from 2:43 – 3:28.

Thanks again! =8^)

Last edited by Mark Hayes; 02/15/22 08:09 AM.
User Showcase
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,698
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,698
I don't quote understand all that you did to create this, but I like the results, nonetheless. The middle part that starts at 2:46 flowed well from the preceding movement and provided relief, a bit of catharsis, from the frenzied mayhem. I found your piece a bit of a treat.

User Showcase
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel's Storm
I found your piece a bit of a treat.

Well, now, THAT is more than I would even hope for! Thank you, sir, and glad to hear you enjoyed.

User Showcase
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,749
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,749
OH MY!

That's high powered exhilaration

My BP is off the charts.

moto

User Showcase
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Originally Posted By: CaptainMoto
OH MY! That's high powered exhilaration
My BP is off the charts.

=8^D

Bear in mind, this is a chromatic piano piece pitch-quantized to a pentatonic scale, so that’s less than half the different notes that poor pianist originally had to play.

User Showcase
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,738
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,738
Wow, listening to your score is always a refreshing break from all the country songs that try to sound as much as country songs as possible. Although I don't much care about the theoretical things, the feeling is more important and in my ears your works try to stretch all possible rules, almost breaking them and going beyond impossible smile And that's what true art is all about. BIABerizing is a very imaginative concept and the picture describes it very well.

Janne


Hear My Music:

Soundcloud
YouTube

User Showcase
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,688
Originally Posted By: jannesan
Wow, listening to your score is always a refreshing break from all the country songs that try to sound as much as country songs as possible. Although I don't much care about the theoretical things, the feeling is more important and in my ears your works try to stretch all possible rules, almost breaking them and going beyond impossible smile And that's what true art is all about. BIABerizing is a very imaginative concept and the picture describes it very well.

Thank you thank you thank you for these kind words, and in particular for noticing my invention of the term "BIABerize" to describe the process of justinization. =8^)

Much could be said about rules and rule breaking and the nature of art. I think of what I do in something like this as more experimental rule combining, mixing related and unrelated forms in such ways as technology invites. And of course BIAB is all about mixing forms, so it's just a playground for this sort of thing.

By the way, if you haven't listened to it, Ligeti's un-messed-with piano piece is way more out there than my unauthorized distortion of it here! I have made his totally dissonant piece much simpler and more accessible, both rhythmically and harmonically, turning it into kind of a pop, "lite" version (and for this I do accept I will burn in Hell...)

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!

Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!

Learn more about this free update for PowerTracks Pro Audio & download it at www.pgmusic.com/support_windows_pt.htm#2024_5

The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!

The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!

Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.

This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245

The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option

Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!

Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!

For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.

Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.

Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!

Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.

Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!

With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!

Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,572
Posts734,528
Members38,494
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
Matthew Hilbers, trustedmedications, MAJORKEY, Fender601, VIPBET사설토토
38,494 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 199
DC Ron 111
dcuny 99
Today's Birthdays
Beagle, Jase Rogers, MisterZ, paxon
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5