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Going to the audiophile or omnipak version

I've been eyeing a desktop with a ryzen 5 and 12gb of ram I mainly want Biab to make jazz backing tracks and record myself over them without a lot tracks

I already have a audio interface and I've had some jbl 305p's studio monitors that I really didn't like to play backing tracks with they sounded really weak

My budget is $2200ish for Biab a pc and speakers

Mainly want to jam over them with my twin reverb set around 2.5 or it might be 4.0 had to send it for repair so not sure

Looking forward to recommendations!

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I'm currently using a trio+ pedal hooked up to a Princeton and a fender rumble 8 inch

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If it's US$2,200 then you should definitely be able to deliver something reasonable.

I just purchased something different (different for me anyway, as I always build my own systems).

It's a Lenovo IdeaCentre AIO 3 All-In-One. It has an optical drive, plenty of USB ports, wireless keyboard and mouse, 16Gb RAM, Ryzen 7 5700U processor, Bluetooth, WiFi, both Wireless and Wired LAN, 512Gb SSD. 24" monitor, Windows 11. I'm more impressed with it than I thought I would be.

Computer: ~US$850.

Audiophile: US$669

Leaves around US$680 to play with.

I have Pioneer Active Monitors and get a sensational result with them.

Hope this helps somewhat.


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I already have a a gaming monitor just need the actual desktop but good to know the U processor handles Biab well

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Nica.
with a budget that nice i would contact companies that specialise in building turnkey computers for recording studios before making a final decision.. they even install the audio interface.and see what they can do for you.
(go on gearspace.com << lots of builders names)
eg....

https://www.studiocat.com/en-ca

or adk pro audio.

to name 2. see users recommends on gearspace.

i recommend at least 2 ssd's starting out.
i highly recommend not recording onto the drive that win resides on. use a seperate one for recording/playback//daw.

alternative i'm a big fan of cheap under 600 buk off lease pc desktops.

eg google >> "refurb ssd hp z workstation" or lenovo or dell workstation...get a 1 yr warranty.
lots of people use refurbs as recording rigs.
once again if you dont believe moi start a thread on gesarspace "recommended pc refurbs for music production'.

just some ideas.
om


Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/19/22 12:33 PM.

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Sounds like you have the PC side set up.
I am an instrumental guitar player.
I make backing tracks for jazz and popular (at least to me) music.
I play in my studio, living room and sometimes in the backyard
I also gig in restaurants and bars.

I have a set of jbl 305's. They are not enough to get a band like sound while playing guitar and amp.

A twin reverb is a lot of gas. Better keep it on 2.

Anyway, one of the rigs I use for tracks amplification is a Turbosound Inspire 300
Its a line array PA that has enough bass to handle the drums and bass in the arrangements.
It costs $450+-. Hard to beat. Much better than the Bose S1Pro.
If you ever plan to gig out its a great small room rig.
Sometime I practice and/or gig with it as my only amplification. I run tracks and my guitar with a direct box (Quilter Superblock,FlyRig,Pod, etc) on it.
Its got direct connects and bluetooth. Check it out.


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5" woofers will sound anaemic in the bottom end though JBLs are voiced to be pleasing rather than neutral and neutral is the aim for mixing.
I've been researching for a monitor upgrade and in the 7 - 8" woofer range there're some contenders...the ADAMS TV7s are good value & sound the TV8s are even better for AUS$200 a pair extra. The Yamaha 8s are nice, the JBLs 8s are, to my ears, voiced/hyped a little in the mids and are popular as speakers for TVs and book shelf sound systems. There're a lot out there and the prices are reasobnable - yet the quality of sound is quite good even at the prices.
Be cautious about front ported monitors as they can cause a narrow cancellation effect.


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I personally have a Ryzen 5 (6 core 12 thread) and 16 gig RAM for home use .. runs my stuff fine and doesn't show any signs of stress even with large files (20+ tracks with FX). In the studio we doubled the RAM, not sure it was needed.
12 gig RAM seems an odd choice .. I'd likely opt for 16 gig and two matching sticks if needed. Probably minimal cost difference.

For monitors I think the 8" does make a difference as noted above.
Monitors are one of those things that until you hear it in your target room, you are guessing.
My BX8a's sounded dull in the next room over, but are MUCH more accurate in this room.
(sadly, I do not think you can find these monitors anymore)
It wasn't because they weren't loud enough for the other room, just that they didn't match the room.
Monitors are hard to recommend for this reason.





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Originally Posted By: mrgeeze
Sounds like you have the PC side set up.
I am an instrumental guitar player.
I make backing tracks for jazz and popular (at least to me) music.
I play in my studio, living room and sometimes in the backyard
I also gig in restaurants and bars.

I have a set of jbl 305's. They are not enough to get a band like sound while playing guitar and amp.

A twin reverb is a lot of gas. Better keep it on 2.

Anyway, one of the rigs I use for tracks amplification is a Turbosound Inspire 300
Its a line array PA that has enough bass to handle the drums and bass in the arrangements.
It costs $450+-. Hard to beat. Much better than the Bose S1Pro.
If you ever plan to gig out its a great small room rig.
Sometime I practice and/or gig with it as my only amplification. I run tracks and my guitar with a direct box (Quilter Superblock,FlyRig,Pod, etc) on it.
Its got direct connects and bluetooth. Check it out.


I've always wondered about those array speakers do they sound mono-is? If you only have one of them and it's a GB twin and channel 1 isn't as hot as 2 probably why I have it on 4 my dB meter measures around 70

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And I'm eyeing the adam t7s too they look cool and the price seems fair

As for 12gb I'm looking at stock PCs I'm not a technical guy so I have to pay extra lol and some come with some weird configs

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Thanks for the help

But to be clear do I need anything else?

PC
Audio interface
Speakers
Biab
Mics
Cables
Monitor

I think I'm set I just have to deal with the Biab interface from the 90's O_0 lol

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Quote:
5" woofers will sound anaemic in the bottom end

Actually, one might be surprised how well they do sound. They're not just speakers, they are Active Powered Monitors, and have plenty of drive and a great sound throughout their entire range. I play an 88-key grand piano VSTi through them (Synthogy Ivory - certainly not an 'entry-level' product) and the drive is brilliant, especially at the bottom end. Anaemic? No way.


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To add, my choice of the powered speaker system I chose had evolved over a serious practical evaluation of many different monitor speaker systems, which included brand names, sizes, varying music styles and more. It involved hours of listening, comparisons and discussions with knowledgeable experts.

It's important that you undertake your own practical evaluation in your decision process, and don't just rely on comments made in this forum.


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Also, I can mix with my Yamaha NS40M Monitors, which are still up there as reference monitors. They are unbelievably realistic, with absolutely no added color, variation, emphasis or added dynamics. Just perfect clean sound.

If the mix sounds good on NS40M's, then it's going to sound great on just about everything else you can put in front of it.

That's not what you need, but I make the reference because this is why the big studios studios regularly include these types of monitors in their mixing line-up.


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I'm using a home built computer.... with a Focusrite Saffire interface and a pair of Mackie MR-5 speakers. For my guitar rig, I have a Spark 40 modeling amp that is run directly into the audio input on the Saffire coming off the Spark headphone jack. This is one amazing sounding rig. Well, let me say this.... it works well for me. I've had a few other guitar players here in my studio who were also very impressed with the sound quality.

The speakers you have look to be similar. If they are trying to keep up with the volume of the amp, well, they probably will have a difficult time doing that. However, if you can get that signal to a line level and input it into the interface, that whole picture changes. The only way I could run my Mesa boogie along with the music projects I was working on was to use noise isolation cans and mike the guitar to put it into the mix and even then, I had to run the cans a bit louder than I really wanted to stay above the room volume of the amp. Getting that signal into the DAW is the best way.... that way you can monitor the guitar in the mix at a very respectable level.

Your budget is a nice starting point for doing it RIGHT.

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/20/22 04:23 AM.

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Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
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I totally agree Herb, there's certainly nothing wrong with the Mackie MR5 speakers. Another great sounding and highly respected 5" Studio Monitor. Great accuracy and excellent clarity. Definitely worthy of consideration.

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As in my signature, I'm using 5" Adam monitors and an Adam subwoofer in my small production studio. For playing along, though, I use two KRK 8" monitors in a bigger room. No subwoofer needed.


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PC yep
Audio interface yep
Speakers yep ones that won't be drowned by your amp and won't strain to be heard.
Isolation pads for the speakers?
Biab yep yep
Mics...but which? A condenser for vocals and a 57 or e609 for guitar amp?
Cables...to & from the computer interface wise from interface to speakers TRS or? with graphite bead shielding? Mic cables - length, shielding?
Monitor...yep...though I use an old TV screen so I can read it from a distance when tracking & following the chord sheet.
Good seat for extended sitting - reduce DVT exposure.
Pop filter if recording vocals.Mic stand for vocals & another for the amp...I use two on an amp a 57 & an e609 - then blend to taste so two short stands.
A latency setting that works for you.
Power strip that's surge protected and reasonably "clean".
Wireless mouse n keyboard maybe to allow you to sit back n play yet still manipulate the comp. I use an old R16 as a control surface with a long USB cable so I can work away from the comp.
Oh, if you'll be using pedals look at a discrete power supply and maybe something to break a ground loop if it occurs.



Last edited by rayc; 07/20/22 11:30 PM.

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Nice list Ray. The one thing that I would change would be to use an uninterrupted power supply (UPS) in place of a surge protector. Brown outs can cause a lot of damage and a UPS can protect against them as well as being a surge protector. YMMV

https://www.lifewire.com/best-uninterrupted-power-supplies-4142625


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Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Going with the adam t8v or yamaha hs8s
Already have a Toma 1st chair xl super sweet

No singing lol getting a sm57 already have at2020 condenser mic might get a ribbon mic later on

Any tips on how to place the speakers and amp to not capture too much bleed really hate hearing my amp through headphones

Should I place the amp in front of the speakers

() ()monitors

()amp
Mic

Or

()amp
Mic

(). () monitors

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Quote:
really hate hearing my amp through headphones


How do you hear the amp through the headphones?
Is the mic picking it up?
If so face the mic away from the amp, or move them farther apart.

I record with headphones, as using monitors while recording is just asking for trouble.
Record with headphones, then listen back to it through the monitors after (with the mic off or turned down).

Knowing how things are routed when you have this issue would help us answer.


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Originally Posted By: rharv
Quote:
really hate hearing my amp through headphones


How do you hear the amp through the headphones?
Is the mic picking it up?
If so face the mic away from the amp, or move them farther apart.

I record with headphones, as using monitors while recording is just asking for trouble.
Record with headphones, then listen back to it through the monitors after (with the mic off or turned down).

Knowing how things are routed when you have this issue would help us answer.
asking for trouble I don't like wearing headphones while playing

What is the best way to reduce it?

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Originally Posted By: Nicasdream
Going with the adam t8v or yamaha hs8s
Already have a Toma 1st chair xl super sweet

No singing lol getting a sm57 already have at2020 condenser mic might get a ribbon mic later on

Any tips on how to place the speakers and amp to not capture too much bleed really hate hearing my amp through headphones

Should I place the amp in front of the speakers

() ()monitors

()amp
Mic

Or

()amp
Mic

(). () monitors


You need to get used to headphones; you're only asking for trouble.


Byron Dickens

BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.

https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Placement of the amp would depend a lot on the amp.
What amp are you using/planning to use?
What volume level?
If you plan to play along with BIAB & have the lot coming through your monitor speakers you'll need to set up your interface for direct monitoring so that latency won't become a problem.
Describe, as clearly as you can, what you aim to achieve in your room.


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rayc
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Originally Posted By: Nicasdream
... I don't like wearing headphones while playing ...

Just a thought ...
If you're using closed back headphones and don't like the isolation, you might try open-backed. I find them much more acoustically comfortable. I use AKGs which are also fairly light. Cables are a nuisance and BlueTooth will add some latency.


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
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BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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And a whole different route; does your amp have a direct out on it?
In other words a line level signal that could be sent directly to the interface.

That might eliminate the need for a mic in the first place.
I prefer recording guitar/bass this way sometimes, unless the sound of the amp's speaker is absolutely necessary.
Even then it can sometimes be emulated.
Just another route to consider.

One other thing to try is putting the mic *right in front of the amp facing the amp (with the monitors well behind the mic).
Put an SM-57 right in front of the cone (a little off center of course) and about 8" away from the speakers and any background monitor issue may become much more manageable.
In other words your second solution, monitors behind the mic and a ways away, and with the mic right up to the amp speaker.

Watch your volume levels so as to not damage anything, but this method can be used successfully if done carefully.


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The recordings would be to mainly critique myself and act like a bottom line like a sound check of sorts

And then I would put open back headphones for recording if it's really serious or have Biab really low to minimize bleed

And probably a Gb twin reverb around 3 or 4

But I also like the sound of live jazz recordings more than the studio stuff everything sounds mo better than the really isolated jazz studio recordings the sounds seem to resonate and decay in a more erratic but definent way if that makes sense

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Before I take too much of your guys time with my journey

Would it be best to

Have the the audio interface next to the speakers with a 20 foot USB cable run

Or

The audio interface next to the pc with a 20 foot xlr cable run

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XLR is much better shielded. I would go that route and keep the interface near the PC.




Steve

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Correct, the XLR can be much longer than that. The maximum length of a USB cable is 15’ but I’ve seen manuals that limit it to 8’.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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How you place equipment is dependent on the limits of the technical specifications of the equipment.

I tend to record one track at a time here at home. If there was ever a question of bleed from the guitar amp, for example, I would place it in another room. In my case downstairs with the doors closed. I am using software, BIAB, or others to create drum lines. Digital piano, and software bass most of the time which does not create bleed issues.

My preference is to play guitar and sing at the same time but that gets to be difficult in my home studio. If I am serious I move the vocal mic to the next room and have my wife press the record button...lol

You will find the SM57 to be a very useful mic. The ribbon mics of the type that are actually useful are pretty pricy. They really need their own mic pre.

If you are using a tube amp that requires a mic, the SM57 will work well. You will have to experiment with mic placement so you get a sound you like.

The RAM issue with a computer is a simple install that you can actually do yourself. Many here to guide you through that.

Billy


New location, new environment, new music coming soon

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Originally Posted By: Nicasdream
asking for trouble I don't like wearing headphones while playing

What is the best way to reduce it?



I prefer to run my amp direct into the interface. My interface echos the audio input to the monitors so I can hear the amp in my studio speakers. If a mic is plugged in.... it will feedback so I shut off the speakers and monitor with cans.

I too, prefer to not wear cans while playing the guitar. So the echo input works well for me. The only reason I would mic an amp would be if I needed to use an amp that has no line out or I'm lacking a DI box.

That's my solution. Put the guitar amp directly into the interface and monitor it live. When I hit play or record.... I hear the tracks and the guitar and I'm able to record the guitar in that manner without cans.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
Originally Posted By: Nicasdream
asking for trouble I don't like wearing headphones while playing

What is the best way to reduce it?



I prefer to run my amp direct into the interface. My interface echos the audio input to the monitors so I can hear the amp in my studio speakers. If a mic is plugged in.... it will feedback so I shut off the speakers and monitor with cans.
...

Quote:
rharv 2 days ago-
And a whole different route; does your amp have a direct out on it?
In other words a line level signal that could be sent directly to the interface.

That might eliminate the need for a mic in the first place.
I prefer recording guitar/bass this way sometimes, unless the sound of the amp's speaker is absolutely necessary.
Even then it can sometimes be emulated.
Just another route to consider.


guess that makes two of us


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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
Originally Posted By: Nicasdream
asking for trouble I don't like wearing headphones while playing

What is the best way to reduce it?



I prefer to run my amp direct into the interface. My interface echos the audio input to the monitors so I can hear the amp in my studio speakers. If a mic is plugged in.... it will feedback so I shut off the speakers and monitor with cans.

I too, prefer to not wear cans while playing the guitar. So the echo input works well for me. The only reason I would mic an amp would be if I needed to use an amp that has no line out or I'm lacking a DI box.

That's my solution. Put the guitar amp directly into the interface and monitor it live. When I hit play or record.... I hear the tracks and the guitar and I'm able to record the guitar in that manner without cans.


Line outs sound like crap.


Byron Dickens

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Maybe you're doing it wrong


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Originally Posted By: rharv
Maybe you're doing it wrong
+1. Line Out is the correct level signal for a powered speaker or the next stage of audio equipment.


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Doing it wrong, huh?

Tell me which professional engineers in professional studios take a line out from a guitar amp into the console instead of miking the speaker.


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Originally Posted By: Byron Dickens
Doing it wrong, huh?

Tell me which professional engineers in professional studios take a line out from a guitar amp into the console instead of miking the speaker.


OK, I give up
If the OP had a 'Professional Studio' and a 'Professional Engineer' they wouldn't have asked the original question

I was just trying to help
/Three of us (all with a lot of experience) have suggested this option, but maybe you know best
// there have been many DI tracks recorded on very successful recordings but I don't have time to list them for you


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I like to use some of both. About 1/3 direct and 2/3 from a mic. But I give up, too.


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DI is NOT a line out from an amp.

Using any one of the very high quality amp sim software available is a way better option

Last edited by Byron Dickens; 07/24/22 03:49 PM.

Byron Dickens

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Are you guys by any chance talking about taking a line out from a hardware amp modeler? Like a line 6 or something?


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$2500 or so

Hp pavilion with a ryzen 7 and 16gb ram

Adam t8vs
30 foot xlr's
Biab
Primacoustic London 8 kit

Plus other stuff I've yet to want lol

I have some diy treatments I made I'll turn into corner bass traps and some kind of isolation thing for my twin reverb

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For the last couple of months I've been stuck with builders in & around the house so haven't been able to mic my amp.
As a result I've used an Amp in a Box pedal...the Joyo ACTONE. It has a reasonable sound and running the output from that into a DI box & then into my interface gives a good signal and less noise...I need the DI between them as there's a lot of RF & EM interference at my place - the balanced out of the DI being key to managing this.
In Reaper I use cabinet responses created by a friend who did the hard yards with his Marshall 4 x 12s, (he has four different ones - each with different speakers), and a variety of mics.
Using the cab response gives a far, far better tone and deals with most of the FIZZ that AmpBoxes and Sims generate. (I know there are plenty of "good" amp sims out there but none that please me & the gear to get great ones like AVEFXII & such are wayyyyyyy to expensive).
When I can I much prefer to mic my amp using an e609 & a 57 - blending them is all the EQ needed.

Line out should be LINE LEVEL as opposed to headphone out and works with most consumer grade gear - particularly if you know which buttons to push on your interface.

Direct Input means what it says - however if you use a DI box then you're not exactly direct as you're doing something to the signal on the way in (bringing it to the level expected by a unit). The fact that most interfaces have, and have had for decades, dedicated circuits for direct guitar input as well as mic etc. renders any pontification about the DI process moot at the very least.

Beatles DIing was to overdrive the preamp circuit & get a clipped signal so it was DI but not as we know it nor as we could afford to do it.

Most folk use something to change the guitar's tone on the way in unless they're going for a completely dry, clean signal to reamp or to run through VSTs in the box.

If one uses a preamp box, (whether in an amp.modeller or similar), before the DI box or interface then one is still, in the functional and historical term, going D.I., just using an external preamp because the signal isn't going in through a microphone or midi.

Last edited by rayc; 07/25/22 11:03 PM.

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Quote:
Line outs sound like crap.
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Byron Dickens



It works for me and sounds really nice, so maybe you're doing it wrong.

Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/27/22 05:59 AM.

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Thanks GH
I've recorded many different players like this successfully (not just myself) with various amps, including bass amps, so it's nice to have someone else validate the suggestion. I mean, I already knew the 'Line Outs sound like crap' remark was an arbitrary statement but don't have the energy for the discourse.

It can actually be better than micing it for some scenarios (including available equipment and engineer's abilities), and many times much easier.

One thing to consider is whether the amp is going to disconnect the cabinet if Line Out is plugged in .. some do, but even then, that's usually OK when recording.

To confuse things even more there can be a mislabeling of the output where instead of an actual 'line out' for recording, it was designed to route the sound to a different external cabinet so recording that may indeed sound like crap.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It was just a suggestion

To answer Byron's latest question and clarify -
No, we are not talking about a line out from an amp modeler (at least I wasn't)


Amp modelers work fine also, but I was talking about an actual line out from an amp (not one meant for an external cabinet, but a legitimate line out) .. see above





Last edited by rharv; 07/27/22 12:16 PM.

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A lot of the computers out there are going to have much more than what is necessary for Band-in-a-Box to run. You can always check out our minimum requirements page, but as a personal opinion I do find that Band-in-a-Box works best with at least 8GB of RAM. My work computer has 8GB of RAM which isn't a whole lot by today's standards, but I've never had an issue with BIAB. I wouldn't go under 8GB of RAM even if you can technically get away with less based on our minimum requirements.


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Just finished setting up 80% of my setup and wow this program is awesome

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