I get glitches in some wma and mp3 but wav flac and ogg are ok
with hint_ram_based=1
they all play fine
Same as Sforzando has this option you can have this option in the BBPlugin as each instrument is not sourcing that many different wav's. All this will work so much better than the crappy waiting time as it is now. This could all be done right now. You have a golden opportunity to bring about profound change. The BBPlugin don't need to wait for wav files to be rendered for it ! It just reads the original WAV Instructions and plays instantly same as Sforzando, if an export is needed it just renders to wav. Drop the sfz into: bb\RealTracks\Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120 then drag into Sforzando you can try it with wav flac ogg (Reaper has a Batch converter) in the sfz just rename all the sample=AG1141.wma in a text editor to the file type you are using.
the offset=705600 end=1058400 and loop_start=705600 loop_end=1058400
is just the sample position in the RT file to loop in Reaper you can right click on the clock and set it to Samples make sure the project is set to 44100.
So it will load the required wma files into ram if: hint_ram_based=1
it will play the files direct if: hint_ram_based=0
there are 2 sfz, one will play from ram and one will play from hard drive.
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hint_*
Its a 'hint' to the ARIA engine, others implementations don't have to follow.
ARIA supports specific opcodes in ‹control› which start with “hint”, these should be ignored by any other SFZ parser. Other engines could implement other hints as they wished.
A useful case is hint_ram_based=1, which will cause the samples to be loaded into RAM in their entirety, instead of preloading only starts into RAM and streaming the rest from disk. This can be useful for preventing sound dropout with larger instruments on lower-performance systems, or instruments located on a HDD.
Now this is playing a RealTrack and RealDrums but I don't have to wait for any wavs to render it just plays instantly. I can render the track to a wav if I want to send it to a friend.
I downloaded both video files and I have viewed both videos multiple times. Interesting viewing and I encourage everyone to take a look at the videos.
One video demonstrates one instance of Sforzando playing sections of a RealTrack audio file.
The second video demonstrates two instances of Sforzando with one playing sections of a RealDrum audio file and the second playing sections of a RealTrack audio file.
The second video was interesting because the two instances played in sync and the RealDrums playback was for both regular playing and fills.
Some DAW, Reaper perhaps, hosts Sforzando in both videos.
You state the videos demonstrate it is faster for the plugin to construct RealTracks and RealDrums in real time versus the present method.
While likely true, I believe your method doesn't utilizes all the resources the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program offers. I'm reasonably sure the main BiaB program uses algorithms and loads from multiple audio files contained to add variety during RealTrack and RealDrum track construction.
Last edited by Jim Fogle; 01/08/2302:19 PM. Reason: corrected sentence
While likely true, I believe your method utilizes all the resources the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program offers. I'm reasonably sure the main BiaB program uses algorithms and loads from multiple audio files contained to add variety during RealTrack and RealDrum track construction.
That's why the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program is fast and everyone uses it and why the BBPlugin is so slow and not many use it because they need to wait for the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program in the background to render down to wav for the BBPlugin. If the BBPlugin works like Sforzando when you click "Generate" it will generate and play instantly.
>>>These are the ones to try (as above) if you have Sforzando installed (maybe not many users have installed Sforzando that comes with Biab ??) If you have it installed you will get the Sforzando VST in Biab or you can run the Standalone C:\Program Files\Plogue\sforzando\sforzando.exe
I corrected the quoted sentence in my previous post. I'm glad you understood my meaning even though I left out a word.
For the plugin to generate RealTrack and RealDrum tracks the plugin requires both access to the RealTrack and RealDrum folders and the intelligence needed to assemble the tracks in the creative ways the main BiaB program can.
I assume the plugin already has folder access since the plugin has folder settings. However I have strong doubts PG Music will provide the plugin with the intelligence needed to assemble the tracks in the creative ways the main BiaB program can. PG Music has previously stated the plugin will not be full featured.
Thanks Jim. Yes the BBPlugin eventually will have all the intelligence within it to do all the functions it needs, it won't be a Biab in the Plugin with 5 million features if users need that then they can use the ReWire VST. For now the BBPlugin can call on bbw4 to give the text track data as the pic below shows the BBoutput.txt track data, this is saved in SavedTracks when you do multiriffs in the BBPlugin. So rather than waiting all that time for bbw4 to render the tracks to wavs it will just render txt with the WAV Instructions instantly and playback instantly. Those WAV Instructions in the pic are the same as in the sfz if you drop the sfz into a Notepad you will see. So in the saved tracks folders you will have just text tracks data and midi data and not a whole lot of wavs that take ages to render unnecessarily. You seem to be able to get your head around this, I hope others can also.
I follow your posts in the bb forum and the reaper forum and i like to try and implement your ideas.
I have used some of your ideas with no problem but i am really struggling with the sfz output txt thing.
I know you have posted about this subject several times but i still dont understand how to do it(Im penny from the big bang theory video you posted)
you did say "just ask"in one of your posts.
could you walk me through from the very beginning(in txt format) from the point of having no programs open.
ie...which program should i have open,reaper,bb main,bb plugin,sforzo.
thanks for your patience,time and trouble.
rebuilt styles,songs and real tracks. win 10...amd a10 radeon r6 4c+6g 1.8ghz 64 bit hp envy biab 2023 with 1004 build. styles 1 to 429 plus extras 1,2,3,4 and 6. running as admin,cleaned up returned to factory settings.
2. Copy the downloaded guitar sfz file into the folder: C:\bb\RealTracks\Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120 and the drums sfz into the folder: C:\bb\Drums\CountryEven8 if they are on another drive then copy there.
3. If you have Sforzando installed you will get the Sforzando VST in Biab that you can load into an empty track, or you can run the Sforzando Standalone C:\Program Files\Plogue\sforzando\sforzando.exe
4. Drag the guitar sfz in the realtracks folder into Sforzando and press the keys. You should get instant playing of RealTracks from different wma files and sections.
5. Drag the drums sfz in the drums folder into another instance of Sforzando and press the key. You should get instant playing of the RealDrums wma file.
The BBPlugin eventually will have all the intelligence within it to do all the functions it needs
I disagree. PG Music previously stated the plugin will never have all the features present in the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program. Plugin users have been unable to offer PG Music any guidance about what main program features are desired because everyone uses different features in the main program. Whatever features are left out there will be suggestions to add them because someone likely uses the missing feature(s).
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The BBPlugin can call on bbw4 to give the text track data as the pic below shows the BBoutput.txt track data, this is saved in SavedTracks when you do multiriffs in the BBPlugin.
What happens if a user does not do multiriffs in the plugin? What happens when a user opens a SGU/MGU file? As I understand the plugin there has to be an initial track generation.
" intelligence within it to do all the functions it needs " That means the Generate functions not all the other million and one features and functions, we are trying to simplify it not make it more complex. I can generate up RealDrums directly in Reaper so that can be done in the Plugin easy enough, then you just need the other generate functions. Biab has a very steep learning curve, you don't want to put that onto new DAW only users and scare them away, we have seen enough of that going on, and that hurts me to see that.
The whole idea of the Plugin was to be able to add extra instrument tracks to a recorded DAW session. It was not to give a DAW auto accompaniment, music lessons and practice. It was to attract NEW DAW only users not old Biab users that just want to get the Biab track into a DAW, they can just drag n drop. To have the 5 million features as I said would be easy to use ReWireVST or make a sync VST for Biab. The future will be/has to be the C++ BBPlugin/Standalone this gets away from the Delphi Biab RealBand. Let Biab be for the old and current users but let the BBPlugin be for Professional/DAW/Studio users not old Biab users with old hardware. LOOK AT EZDRUMMER 3 SUPERIOR DRUMMER 3 that don't scare or frustrate users !!! EZ=EASY What I'm showing is how to make BBPlugin just wonderfully easy and frustration free. When I say it could be the Industry Standard Goto I mean that, I don't say that lightly.
All this that I have been posting with Sforzando can be put into a separate BBPlugin Standalone that can be used for a Live Arranger you see how fast you can play chord sections from one to the other in Sforzando, this proves it can be done. You did try those sfz didn't you ????
You are totally limiting the BBPlugin potential by making it for old users that just want the Biab tracks in their DAW that they now have in Biab main app, making a mirror image of the main app in a plugin is pointless. The BBPlugin working how I showed could open a frozen SGU directly in the BBPlugin with identical layout and sections and read the frozen section data in an SGU/MGU and instantly play that, or it can get bbw4 to open the frozen SGU/MGU track data and render that direct to the SavedTracks folder as text and midi data (NO WAVs). BBW4 can give the BBPlugin track data for every single track or multiriffs same as it does now but only for multiriffs in the BBoutput.txt. You can have 24 frozen tracks in the main Biab SGU and the BBPlugin could call on bbw4 to open that and write the text and midi data for all tracks to the SavedTracks folder and the BBPlugin will play instantly identical to Biab main app, not waiting 10 hours for 24 tracks to render. This way old Biab users don't need all the functions as they can work in Biab > Save frozen SGU >>> BBPlugin will instantly open that frozen SGU and you will have the identical song playing instantly. Got to change something else ? just make the change in Biab main app and Save again frozen and open again in the BBPlugin, not waiting hours to re-render changes you will get a clone of the Biab current song state instantly. See all the trouble I went to with Biab Track Injector for Reaper, that was to show how it could be done to get tracks instantly into Reaper without rendering or re-rendering, if you don't like a section you go to Biab change that section and BANG ! it's in Reaper instantly.
Thanks for asking and taking an interest, I don't mine explaining it all to anyone that can't get their head around it, I want to get you guys there also.
Also with the BBPlugin working this way with elastique it will fit the tracks to any varying decimal tempo map. If old users create their song up in a constant tempo Biab session it will instantly transfer and fit the varying decimal tempo map in their DAW. You could also have an option to open a frozen SGU and pic the tracks you want to import.
intelligence within it to do all the functions it needs
But, as I mentioned earlier, forum users were unable to agree on what functions the plugin needs. I suspect many current Band-in-a-Box users have not given much thought to what functions they would expect the plugin to perform.
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I can generate up RealDrums directly in Reaper so that can be done in the Plugin easy enough
That is an apples to oranges comparison between your Reaper script and plugin code. There is no way a non-coder like myself can judge how easy it is to modify the plugin code so the plugin can generate up RealDrums. I don't understand how that statement is relevant to the conversation.
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The whole idea of the Plugin was to be able to add extra instrument tracks to a recorded DAW session.
Agree but let's change the statement just a little bit; how's this:
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The whole idea of the Plugin should be to be able to add extra instrument tracks to a recorded DAW session.
Why did I change your statement from "was" to "should be"? Because presently a user can not save a Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) SGU or MGU file and know for sure the file will work properly in the plugin. Back to the first part of this discussion, certain main BiaB program functions that are saved in a SGU or MGU file do not work in the plugin.
My highest priority is for the plugin to utilize ALL the main program functions that can be stored in a SGU or MGU file.
For example the main BiaB program SGU or MGU file can store MultiStyles, can the plugin reconstruct them? The main BiaB program SGU or MGU file can store F5 Bar Settings, can the plugin implement those settings?
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It was to attract NEW DAW only users not old Biab users that just want to get the Biab track into a DAW, they can just drag n drop.
I agree but what producer is going to work on a SGU or MGU file in the main BiaB program only to find the work does not correctly transfer?
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Let Biab be for the old and current users but let the BBPlugin be for Professional/DAW/Studio users not old Biab users
No! It's not an either or situation and it never should be. The main BiaB program is where an audio producer should start the song creation and then use the plugin to review alternate instrumentation and riffs.
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All this that I have been posting with Sforzando can be put into a separate BBPlugin Standalone that can be used for a Live Arranger.
While that is a nice idea there is no sign PG Music is interested in competing with arranger keyboards. Sometimes when you are a small, family owned business you choose not to compete with giants of the industry.
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You are totally limiting the BBPlugin potential by making it for old users that just want the Biab tracks in their DAW that they now have in Biab main app, making a mirror image of the main app in a plugin is pointless.
Why is wanting the plugin to accurately recreate the tracks in a main BiaB program SGU or MGU file pointless? How does that limit the plugin potential? Don't you believe the plugin should accurately playback a SGU or MGU file?
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The BBPlugin working how I showed could open a frozen SGU directly in the BBPlugin with identical layout and sections and read the frozen section data in an SGU/MGU and instantly play that, or it can get bbw4 to open the frozen SGU/MGU track data and render that direct to the SavedTracks folder as text and midi data (NO WAVs).
But the frozen tracks were created in the main BiaB program. You just proved my point that an audio producer likely will use both the main BiaB program and the plugin. Earlier you said leave the main BiaB program for the old folks and let the DAW users have the plugin. I just can't envision up and coming audio producers getting SGU or MGU files from us old folks. Just a little joke here.
Great conversation. It's nice to exchange thoughts and look at different points of view.
intelligence within it to do all the functions it needs
But, as I mentioned earlier, forum users were unable to agree on what functions the plugin needs. I suspect many current Band-in-a-Box users have not given much thought to what functions they would expect the plugin to perform. Band-in-a-Box users would get the identical song sections, layout and multistyles in the BBPlugin. Who put all the time and effort into this coming into fruition ? I heard JJJ mention a VST version of Biab, so I put a lot of time effort and posting ways to do it, but there was zero responses or ideas from anyone else at all. It always seems to be left to me to find ways, even hacking into Biab to get into to do things that makes life easier. OMG I should not have to do that.
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I can generate up RealDrums directly in Reaper so that can be done in the Plugin easy enough
That is an apples to oranges comparison between your Reaper script and plugin code. There is no way a non-coder like myself can judge how easy it is to modify the plugin code so the plugin can generate up RealDrums. I don't understand how that statement is relevant to the conversation. PowerTracks Generates up RealDrums it's self without using bbw2 bbw4 in the back ground !
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The whole idea of the Plugin was to be able to add extra instrument tracks to a recorded DAW session.
Agree but let's change the statement just a little bit; how's this:
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The whole idea of the Plugin should be to be able to add extra instrument tracks to a recorded DAW session.
Why did I change your statement from "was" to "should be"? Because presently a user can not save a Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) SGU or MGU file and know for sure the file will work properly in the plugin. Back to the first part of this discussion, certain main BiaB program functions that are saved in a SGU or MGU file do not work in the plugin. As I said before Band-in-a-Box users would get the identical song sections, layout and multistyles in the BBPlugin, the end result of it all is linear tracks. The Biab Track Injector put the identical tracks/sections in Biab in a DAW, that's what this will do. So you don't need Pitch Invaders and all the other stuff in the BBPlugin.
My highest priority is for the plugin to utilize ALL the main program functions that can be stored in a SGU or MGU file. YES that's what this will do !
For example the main BiaB program SGU or MGU file can store MultiStyles, can the plugin reconstruct them? The main BiaB program SGU or MGU file can store F5 Bar Settings, can the plugin implement those settings? YES that's what this will do ! I even posted MultiStyle multi time signature biab songs direct in Reaper Track Injector. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4x0l5ebofxcg4ju/Reaper-Biab-Track-Injector-09.mp4?dl=0
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It was to attract NEW DAW only users not old Biab users that just want to get the Biab track into a DAW, they can just drag n drop.
I agree but what producer is going to work on a SGU or MGU file in the main BiaB program only to find the work does not correctly transfer? They won't be going near the main program ! They are DAW users they use Superior Drummer 3 with 24bit audio on a 250GB HD
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Let Biab be for the old and current users but let the BBPlugin be for Professional/DAW/Studio users not old Biab users
No! It's not an either or situation and it never should be. The main BiaB program is where an audio producer should start the song creation and then use the plugin to review alternate instrumentation and riffs. No! they won't be going near the main program ! They are DAW users, they don't want to learn the main program, that would be a nightmare expecting them to learn the old Biab in a studio where time is money, they want EZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Old Biab users who use Biab, if they want some tracks in the DAW they freeze the SGU and the BBPlugin will open it and playback identical. You just can't force them to learn Biab they would end up jumping off a cliff
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All this that I have been posting with Sforzando can be put into a separate BBPlugin Standalone that can be used for a Live Arranger.
While that is a nice idea there is no sign PG Music is interested in competing with arranger keyboards. Sometimes when you are a small, family owned business you choose not to compete with giants of the industry. Is that what they said ??? what was the whole idea of Biab midi styles and conductor ? https://www.dropbox.com/s/4sdl87ge4y9y5kc/Sforzando-Arranger.mp4?dl=0
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You are totally limiting the BBPlugin potential by making it for old users that just want the Biab tracks in their DAW that they now have in Biab main app, making a mirror image of the main app in a plugin is pointless.
Why is wanting the plugin to accurately recreate the tracks in a main BiaB program SGU or MGU file pointless? How does that limit the plugin potential? Don't you believe the plugin should accurately playback a SGU or MGU file? I have to keep repeating this, that is what it does "accurately recreate" https://www.dropbox.com/s/4x0l5ebofxcg4ju/Reaper-Biab-Track-Injector-09.mp4?dl=0
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The BBPlugin working how I showed could open a frozen SGU directly in the BBPlugin with identical layout and sections and read the frozen section data in an SGU/MGU and instantly play that, or it can get bbw4 to open the frozen SGU/MGU track data and render that direct to the SavedTracks folder as text and midi data (NO WAVs).
But the frozen tracks were created in the main BiaB program. You just proved my point that an audio producer likely will use both the main BiaB program and the plugin. Earlier you said leave the main BiaB program for the old folks and let the DAW users have the plugin. I just can't envision up and coming audio producers getting SGU or MGU files from us old folks. Just a little joke here. I said this for the benefit of old Biab users so the can easily open the Biab song in the BBPlugin identical. Charlie wants these guys in Professional Studios to use the old complex Delphi Biab GUI as I said they use Superior Drummer 3 and ya think the Biab GUI is going to turn them on ? You must think of there health and wellbeing.
Great conversation. It's nice to exchange thoughts and look at different points of view.
For now in this transition period the BBPlugin can still use bbw4 BUT it will get away from that and have all the generate functions in it ! This way it will have more that 255 bars, any tempo map, real time signatures to work with real studio professionals. "Biab in a Studio OMG !" lol where have you and Charlie been ?
LOL I remember having huge heated discussions with Charlie about non destructive editing. Then I made the Reaper Track Injector to show it working in reality, plainly, easily and instantly but didn't hear a thing from Charlie. I showed how it has total control over what you need that you don't get from consolidated wavs. And now Biab has the non destructive editing with a floating Alt+F8, so sorry Charlie if the tracks don't turn orange now and attach as a wav file to the SGU.
Users can see and understand what I'm saying by trying the Biab Track Injector or the much simpler Super Simple Track Transfer to REAPER. I had to do all this, I knew nothing when I came here I had to learn it all through aggravation and frustration. If I gave up and couldn't be bothered back in 2009 what would you guys have now ?? I go out of my way to help other users with so many things but I ask if they could test some sfz files and you get just a few that want to help.
This is a multistyle from Biab instantly in Reaper, identical, that's how the BBPlugin will work. Old users make it all up in Biab and then instantly transferred to the BBPlugin in the DAW, any editing or changing in the main Biab can be easily re-transferred. I even suggested you could have a "Transfer" button on the BBPlugin that will do this. That's why I suggested that Biab writes the current data for all tracks to bb\Data\BBoutput.txt so the BBPlugin will read and load the data of the current Biab session, but you won't have to go and make cups of coffee while it's being done.
Band-in-a-Box users would get the identical song sections, layout and multistyles in the BBPlugin.
Not until the plugin is able to accurately interpret a MGU or SGU song file. Earlier you agreed that should be the ultimate plugin goal. Presently the plugin can not accurately duplicate all song arrangements constructed in the main Band-in-a-Box program.
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PowerTracks Generates up RealDrums it's self without using bbw2 bbw4 in the back ground !
I was not aware PowerTracks has that capability until you told me. Hopefully the main PowerTracks developer or the plugin developer will read this discussion and strike up a conversation about how the plugin can obtain the same capability.
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No! they (audio producers) won't be going near the main program ! They are DAW users, they don't want to learn the main program,
I disagree. Audio producers learn new products everyday. Yes time is money. The time audio producers spend learning how to use the chord sheet to build a song arrangement is money they may not loose because they can't get the audio track their customer desires when the customer needs it.
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Is that what they said ??? what was the whole idea of Biab midi styles and conductor ?
No, I said PG Music has not shown any interest in competing with arranger keyboards. This quotation from the BiaB user manual doesn't remind me of an arranger keyboard.
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These settings are ideal for live performance or “jam sessions” where you aren’t entering new Band-in-a-Box songs but want full control of the playback.
When we discuss accurately recreating the tracks from a Band-in-a-Box song file you refer to your Reaper Track Injector script. I understand you are using your Reaper Track Injector script to suggest: (1) if tracks are generated in the main BiaB program, (2) if generated tracks are frozen in the main BiaB program and (3) if the song file is saved as a SGU or MGU file then (1) tracks do not need to be regenerated and (2) each track's wave instructions can be read to regenerate tracks that are identical to what was saved in the song file or the wave instruction data can be manipulated to create new tracks. Is my understanding correct? If so then the Reaper Track Injector script reinforces how the main BiaB program is required to generate and freeze tracks so the wave instructions can be read later on.
Your assumption is audio producers will not try the main Band-in-a-Box program because of the look of the interface and difficulty to use. Of course I disagree.
The plugin does look much better than the main program. The plugin is adequate for simple song file creation. The plugin will likely introduce new users to Band-in-a-Box. However the plugin will not replace the main BiaB program in creating songs that are not simple.
As audio producers require more intricate tracks and discover that the main Band-in-a-Box program can meet their needs they will disregard the main program's interface. As the need arises they will learn how to utilize F5, F7, F8 and all the other advanced arrangement tools the main BiaB program offers. The main BiaB program is not going away.
As audio producers compare the cost of the Audiophile package against the cost of loosing a customer because they don't have the backing tracks a customer wants the Audiophile package is a good value.
Band-in-a-Box users would get the identical song sections, layout and multistyles in the BBPlugin.
Not until the plugin is able to accurately interpret a MGU or SGU song file. Earlier you agreed that should be the ultimate plugin goal. Presently the plugin can not accurately duplicate all song arrangements constructed in the main Band-in-a-Box program. That is why I'm still here ! I'm not a programmer and knew nothing when I came her in 2009, I made Biab Track Inject in a short time it does all that.
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PowerTracks Generates up RealDrums it's self without using bbw2 bbw4 in the back ground !
I was not aware PowerTracks has that capability until you told me. Hopefully the main PowerTracks developer or the plugin developer will read this discussion and strike up a conversation about how the plugin can obtain the same capability. Haven't you studied this: Making RealDrums Styles with Band-in-a-Box® there is a lot more details there than for UserTracks
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No! they (audio producers) won't be going near the main program ! They are DAW users, they don't want to learn the main program,
I disagree. Audio producers learn new products everyday. Yes time is money. The time audio producers spend learning how to use the chord sheet to build a song arrangement is money they may not loose because they can't get the audio track their customer desires when the customer needs it. I've mentioned it to some in Nashville and they said they tried and could not work it out, my first dealings with Biab/RB was the wonderful end results BUT so much frustration, this IS the only reason why I'm still here, I went to Toontrack forum once to suggest EZGuitar/Bass. I was in RapidComposer beta forum suggesting functions and features and they were all implemented right away, no arguing, no fighting, no fierce opposition if you suggest mute/solo buttons that drag out for years until they are finally implemented: "solo mute button, unheard of what is this craziness ??" same deal when I suggested solo/mute for RealBand, Volume Automation in RealBand so you don't have to destructive edit that Charlie loves, only just now implemented in Biab along with non destructive RealTrack editing. Again where would you guys be now ?
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Is that what they said ??? what was the whole idea of Biab midi styles and conductor ?
No, I said PG Music has not shown any interest in competing with arranger keyboards. This quotation from the BiaB user manual doesn't remind me of an arranger keyboard.
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These settings are ideal for live performance or “jam sessions” where you aren’t entering new Band-in-a-Box songs but want full control of the playback.
I said they need to do it before Yamaha do it, and this was some time back but not Yamaha but KETRON has just done it. Are they competing with PG now ? Can I send chords from my DAW to Ketron and get RealTracks sent back ?? YES
When we discuss accurately recreating the tracks from a Band-in-a-Box song file you refer to your Reaper Track Injector script. I understand you are using your Reaper Track Injector script to suggest: (1) if tracks are generated in the main BiaB program, (2) if generated tracks are frozen in the main BiaB program and (3) if the song file is saved as a SGU or MGU file then (1) tracks do not need to be regenerated and (2) each track's wave instructions can be read to regenerate tracks that are identical to what was saved in the song file or the wave instruction data can be manipulated to create new tracks. Is my understanding correct? If so then the Reaper Track Injector script reinforces how the main BiaB program is required to generate and freeze tracks so the wave instructions can be read later on. Yes the Track Injector reads the Biab track data, but once that generate code is moved to the BBPlugin it will be all done in the Plugin without bbw4. The Plugin won't have to wait inline for the Biab Delphi guys to fix/add something to bbw4 so the Plugin works again, it will be all in the BBPlugin, self contained, it can't head any other way, it's divine providence.
Your assumption is audio producers will not try the main Band-in-a-Box program because of the look of the interface and difficulty to use. Of course I disagree. Yes I agree they will be turned on by being able to sync it to their DAW, any time signature, any decimal tempo map, over 255 bars and even VST3 plugins. Do you know how many years I fought to get VstTimeInfo for VSTs like EZdrummer ?? again this is the whole reason why I'm here, see what I'm doing now, this is all part of it, I did not give up back in 2009 and say "I could not be bothered". What I would like to see is users get more involved, test things out to prove it to yourselves OMG if you can use Biab you can try Reaper and the things I post, you can't condemn before a thorough investigation. You are too scared to try Reaper and you say that Studio guys will learn Biab ??? How many Biab users have even be bothered to try the Biab scripts in Reaper to see how easy things can work so as to make Biab better ?? REAPER is FREE to try n try n try... Again if I wasn't here what would you guys have now ???
The plugin does look much better than the main program. The plugin is adequate for simple song file creation. The plugin will likely introduce new users to Band-in-a-Box. However the plugin will not replace the main BiaB program in creating songs that are not simple. So Studio users will be looking to make up complex songs and will need Biab ? every song on the radio would of been made up in a Studio most likely using Pro Tools. They can add tracks/sections from the BBPlugin to the complex recorded DAW sessions. Are you saying they should give up doing it this way and move to Biab ? Biab has only just now got bar to bar beat to beat regen for RealTracks only.
As audio producers require more intricate tracks and discover that the main Band-in-a-Box program can meet their needs they will disregard the main program's interface. As the need arises they will learn how to utilize F5, F7, F8 and all the other advanced arrangement tools the main BiaB program offers. The main BiaB program is not going away. Is Superior Drummer 3 & EZBass used for simple song creation ? what time signatures and tempo maps do they have, are they limited to 255 bars, can they use 24bit wav files ? The BBPlugin can work the same and not only use midi but recorded audio tracks. It's wonderful how Studio guys can make up songs in Biab and it fits any time signature in their DAW. Old users going from the 90's into their 90's will still have Delphi Biab, but the BBPlugin/Standalone will become the new Biab for new users as the code is moved into the Plugin -Pitch Invaders and so many other bloated things. You have Tranzport in Biab but where is the BBsyncVST ? EZDrummer > EZBBvst. I showed higher than 4/4 time signatures UserTracks being transferred from the the BBPlugin to the DAW and fitting.
As audio producers compare the cost of the Audiophile package against the cost of loosing a customer because they don't have the backing tracks a customer wants the Audiophile package is a good value. I purchased the Audiophile the day after the first time I received Biab. But where is the 24bit 48khz WavePack Audiophile ? Toontrack has a 24bit wav file 250gig Hard Drive.
Now for a question from me: What are you and Charlie currently doing now to make the Plugin better ? what suggestions do you have, what needs to change to get it up there with the likes of Superior Drummer 3 ? With all the info I have posted has it helped you any to understand more how Biab & BBPlugin work ? Can you see how DAW use Non Destructive Editing for a reason ? Can you see all the steps the BBPlugin/bbw4 has to take just to get rendered wav files ? Can you see how it talks to bbw4 and what it does in the background ? Can you see the limitation of this ? Can you see what Injector does ? how it gives total control of what you get and not a consolidated, set in stone wav file. Can you try the simple track transfer script or the even easier BBPlugin MultiRiff Transfer then try editing the tracks and see how easy it is ? is there anyway at all that you can possibly TRY that ??? Can you think of a better way for this to work so you get instant tracks ? Please post below.
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
My stand alone version of sforzando is 1.6.0.5 6/29/21 and the vst version is 1.9.2.7.6/29/21 but like Dan, sforzando is working ok in my BIAB software, so I'll leave things as they are. In my case, I also don't have any current use for the standalone and I'm not looking to risk breaking my BIAB program.
It's high risk updating ! 5 users died last week doing it ! and because now they give you a VST3 version of Sforzando as well 32 and 64bit VST. If you are using Biab only in your "Studio" you won't want the VST3 as it won't work in Biab and will only work in new DAWs that you probably don't use. So best to just leave it to me to do it all ? If you guys are afraid to do that but expect DAW only users to learn and use Biab ? It's 2023 guys you are stuck in a time warp.
My understanding is you write your scripts to demonstrate ways the plugin might perform certain functions. When I asked above if my understanding of what the Reaper Track Injector is doing is correct you do not answer the question. Instead you attack me personally. I understand you get frustrated but all I'm trying to do is clarify your message.
It is difficult to tell what you want to do when you use a DAW and scripts to present an idea for a plugin. Isn't it easier to say something like "the plugin should use wave instructions instead of rendering RealTrack tracks" instead of doing the whole DAW and scripts presentation?
You and I have had some good conversations. Don't take your frustrations out on me.
When we discuss accurately recreating the tracks from a Band-in-a-Box song file you refer to your Reaper Track Injector script. I understand you are using your Reaper Track Injector script to suggest: (1) if tracks are generated in the main BiaB program, (2) if generated tracks are frozen in the main BiaB program and (3) if the song file is saved as a SGU or MGU file then (1) tracks do not need to be regenerated and (2) each track's wave instructions can be read to regenerate tracks that are identical to what was saved in the song file or the wave instruction data can be manipulated to create new tracks. Is my understanding correct? If so then the Reaper Track Injector script reinforces how the main BiaB program is required to generate and freeze tracks so the wave instructions can be read later on.
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Yes the Track Injector reads the Biab track data, but once that generate code is moved to the BBPlugin it will be all done in the Plugin without bbw4. The Plugin won't have to wait inline for the Biab Delphi guys to fix/add something to bbw4 so the Plugin works again, it will be all in the BBPlugin, self contained, it can't head any other way, it's divine providence.
I have asked you so many times if you tried the SFZ's nicely, I got zero each time. Maybe I have it wrong ? but the whole thing seems to reek of Charlie. I have spent years here posting how the Plugin could work, did that get through ??? then I showed the theory actually working playing back wma files direct with the Track Injector, did that get through ???, and...then after all of that, I showed it working with Sforzando, did users enthusiastically jump in and try them ?? then after that I showed it with actual chord input going to different sections of files playing them back instantly. I have posted so many post for so looooooong.
This has been going for years, how many users actually tried any of this to experience it working for themselves first hand to give understanding ? How many genuinely want to help ? With all this incredible encouragement, support and appreciation maybe I should of given up back in 2009 ? The voice of one crying in the wilderness. Does it all serve any purpose at all or should I finally give up once and for all if it don't help any being here. Have a poll on that and I'll abide with it.
My thoughts are that Reaper fans may want to have their own thread. As I mentioned before I am a Presonus Sphere Studio One subscriber. It would be nice to be able to ignore the Reaper posts much like I do the some of the other general topics.
The Reaper scripts are showing ways for the BBPlugin to work better, this way it will work in Studio One better or any other DAW better. Studio One has scripting but there is limited information on it. I have made up a few scripts for Studio One to work with the BBPlugin. Reaper is just easy to script with as it has so many of it's functions in scripting. End result of all the work that I put in with Reaper is to make the BBPlugin work way better in any DAW.
Once that generate code is moved to the BBPlugin it will be all done in the Plugin without bbw4. The Plugin won't have to wait inline for the Biab Delphi guys to fix/add something to bbw4 so the Plugin works again, it will be all in the BBPlugin, self contained.
But, instead of embracing your idea PG Music uses a bridge program to interface between the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program and the plugin. Since PG Music also uses a bridge program to interface between the main BiaB program and RealBand I believe that action implies PG Music favors bridge programs.
Built-in plugin functionality may be the best way forward but it may not be and maybe that is why PG Music has chosen another direction. PG Music presently uses a bridge program to obtain functionality remotely. That is an undeniable fact.
You've presented your suggestion for built-in plugin functionality in multiple threads. You've continually improved the mock-ups that demonstrate your vision of how the functionality can work. The posts are out there for all to see.
Why not continue to offer suggestions about the current plugin? Numerous suggestions such as the track volume control and how the mute/solo buttons work have made a big difference in how the plugin operates. You, Jeff Pettit and Rob Helms have consistently been in the forefront as far as contributing error posts and suggestions regarding the plugin.
I can't see PG Music adopting built-in plugin functionality this year unless they make the switch when Band-in-a-Box for Mac is released. Maybe it's time to drop the idea for now and bring it up again when plugin version 6 is released.
Once that generate code is moved to the BBPlugin it will be all done in the Plugin without bbw4. The Plugin won't have to wait inline for the Biab Delphi guys to fix/add something to bbw4 so the Plugin works again, it will be all in the BBPlugin, self contained.
But, instead of embracing your idea PG Music uses a bridge program to interface between the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program and the plugin. Since PG Music also uses a bridge program to interface between the main BiaB program and RealBand I believe that action implies PG Music favors bridge programs. "But, instead of embracing your idea"
"ReWire VST works as a standard VST instruments and can load all versions of Reason (32-bit and 64-bit) on PC and Mac OS X. Want to use Reason inside energyXT, MPC, Maschine or any other VST DAW/sequencer, then ReWire VST is for you.".......
johnjohnjohn " get the whole thing converted to a VSTi that I can use in my DAW!" that could not be hard to do as realband\data\bbw2.exe generates up the tracks then lays them in real band that is a daw - initializing accompaniment functions is starting bbw2.exe up that appears to be much the same as bb\bbw.exe band in a box............
The vst can work in a similar way - just needs to use the c:\realband\data\bbw2.exe like real band does to bring the tracks into the daw instead.
any ideas or suggestions will help.
"any ideas or suggestions will help." all those years before it was released and no suggestions to help how it could work !
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
just trying out RapidComposer http://www.musicdevelopments.com/rapidcomposer.html it is a standalone and a vsti - the vst RapidComposer_x64.dll (400k) is just used to connect the daw to the RapidComposer_x64.exe (9meg) that starts up when the vst is loaded. BBW.exe is only 8meg so a vst version would be a must to lay tracks down straight in your daw.. though the syncing problem would have to be fixed, like that rewire vst didn't work http://www.energy-xt.com/index.php?id=0115
Built-in plugin functionality may be the best way forward but it may not be and maybe that is why PG Music has chosen another direction. PG Music presently uses a bridge program to obtain functionality remotely. That is an undeniable fact.
You've presented your suggestion for built-in plugin functionality in multiple threads. You've continually improved the mock-ups that demonstrate your vision of how the functionality can work. The posts are out there for all to see.
Why not continue to offer suggestions about the current plugin? Numerous suggestions such as the track volume control and how the mute/solo buttons work have made a big difference in how the plugin operates. You, Jeff Pettit and Rob Helms have consistently been in the forefront as far as contributing error posts and suggestions regarding the plugin. The Plugin looks professional now that is from all the work that went into bringing the interface up there with other VSTs but now it's the lame asss back end that needs a quantum leap also, you have a Ferrari with a vw engine. Adar programs the vst quickly Win/Mac but all the while waiting for the back end. I can't see PG Music adopting built-in plugin functionality this year unless they make the switch when Band-in-a-Box for Mac is released. Maybe it's time to drop the idea for now and bring it up again when plugin version 6 is released. drop it ? I just showed Sforzando playing any section of any wma instantly, is this helpful to PG ??? or should I have not posted it and dropped it ?? A lot of things in the VST now are accepted as standard useful things but it took a lot of explaining and up against opposition to get them implemented. When ideas come to me I post them. It's not easy with near zero encouraging to keep going. Over the years I have seen these ideas knocked then down the track they are implemented and the very ones that knocked it are using the feature and suggesting it to others. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. It has worn me out doing all this so some encouragement does help I just wish some cleaver users from the Reaper or other forums had Biab (Mac's gone he was into Ham radio and electronics) and they were here then I could ask them questions how best to do such n such. I tried to get evildragon as he is so up on it all and in a lot of forums, to beta test here but he said he was too busy with other beta testing. I should have another look for clever users, I'll tell them I'll buy them Biab myself if they come here ! (I think I'll get onto that right now!) I feel very much alone here but in other forums I'm asking so many clever other users for help. Time is the vindicator, I have seen so many things come to pass happening right now that came to me years ago, but telling others at the time they thought you were a crazy conspiracy theorist. I remember the day Diana died in the car crash, they said on the radio "Diana is still alive and a man has died" and I said no that's not right Diana died a man is still alive. So I tend to trust what comes to me from inside rather than from what CNN tells me as it's usually the opposite. Conspiracy theories are turning out to be actually spoiler alerts. Let's see what happens in 2023 to things that people hold dear to their hearts.
it's the lame asss back end that needs a quantum leap also, you have a Ferrari with a vw engine.
Well I can see you didn't think much of my suggestion.
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drop it ? I just showed Sforzando playing any section of any wma instantly, is this helpful to PG ??? or should I have not posted it and dropped it ??
Did I suggest you not post new and original suggestions? No. I suggested you not repeat the same suggestion many times. Posting a suggestion once each year is enough. If us users don't understand we can ask a question. If PG Music doesn't act on the suggestion by the time the next release comes out, post a reminder.
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When ideas come to me I post them.
That's great.
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It's not easy with near zero encouraging to keep going.
Very true. That's why I'm glad the wishlist forum sections exist. I can ask questions to help clarify and refine suggestions as well as discuss why I agree or disagree with a suggestion. Most of all I can support a good suggestion with a +1.
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I just wish some cleaver users from the Reaper or other forums had Biab (Mac's gone he was into Ham radio and electronics) and they were here then I could ask them questions how best to do such n such. I tried to get evildragon as he is so up on it all and in a lot of forums, to beta test here but he said he was too busy with other beta testing. I should have another look for clever users, I'll tell them I'll buy them Biab myself if they come here ! (I think I'll get onto that right now!)
Both you and PG Music are fortunate that you have the finances to support Band-in-a-Box that way. Everyone seems to use Band-in-a-Box differently so the more people you can encourage to use Band-in-a-Box and participate in the forum the more varied the suggestions that will be presented.
Why not continue to offer suggestions about the current plugin?
That is good how it is at the moment, Adar has done a great job. I don't know what more I can suggest. It looks fantastic but needs to work fantastic but it can't do that waiting for background processes. The main thing is to get users using the Plugin. The main reason why they don't use it is because Biab if faster. If I had know more about the inner workings of Biab back in 2016 when I suggested to use bbw2 as RealBand does, I would of thought of a better way. Only PG knew then what I know now. It's the opposite with Biab it looks like a vw but has a Ferrari engine because it's quick but the Plugin looks like a Ferrari but has a vw engine.
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No. I suggested you not repeat the same suggestion many times. Posting a suggestion once each year is enough.
Done that and it gets missed, not seen or doesn't get through. I posted sample RT sets many times before it was implemented if I had posted only once you probably would not have them now. Things have to sink in. I didn't just think oh sample set would be good and post it, I made them myself and tried them out. That how I know things WILL work. The more you see something in action working, the more you get used to it, the more you think and then it sinks in, then you start to think of even better ways of doing it, and then it gets implemented. Next.
I think I'll stop my end of the conversation for now. I think I've said about all I can say about the plugin, I don't want to take the conversation in a different direction and don't want to repeat myself.
The plugin has come a long way since it was released. You and I just disagree on the way forward. I enjoyed the conversation and look forward to more in the future.
Yes now back to topic: If SFZ Can Do It So Can BBPlugin That's what it's about. I'm actually doing that right now. Making up some RealTracks and RealDrums Sforzando instruments that work exactly how the BBPlugin can work. I could go through them all and make up an SFZ for each RT and RD. Then I could just use them with a midi chord track or I could use them as a Live Arranger with keyboard input. Did you try the SFZ ? Do you have any questions about Sforzando and wma/wav ? Did you want to try and make any up for yourself ? Do you want to learn how it works ? Does Sforzando work with mono wma or just stereo ? Do you want to give some encouragement for this to develop and be part of it ? Do you want help with ways or is it the same as back in 2016 when I was asking for suggestions and help how the Plugin could work when I suggested bbw2 ? Do you want me to forget it and just wait until PG finally do it and then you say "WOW PG this is great we didn't think you could do it" ? Or do you want to play a part in helping it get there ? Did you try the SFZ YET ? Is it all way too much over your head and it's easier to knock it than try to learn what's going on ? You have a golden opportunity NOW. Anybody ?
Do you have any questions about Sforzando and wma/wav ?
No.
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Did you want to try and make any up for yourself ?
No right now but thank you for offering. I made some Sforzando instruments a few years ago when I first learned about Sforzando.
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Do you want to learn how it works ?
It's been awhile but I still have a basic understanding of how Sforzando works. It reads a text file to match audio files with midi keyboard notes.
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Does Sforzando work with mono wma or just stereo ?
I'm not sure. I used stereo wave files for my audio file samples. I never tried using a wma file.
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Do you want to give some encouragement for this to develop and be part of it ?
No. You've demonstrated your suggestion to stop using bridge programs and build the functionality into the plugin. What else is there to demonstrate concerning that idea?
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Do you want help with ways or is it the same as back in 2016 when I was asking for suggestions and help how the Plugin could work when I suggested bbw2 ?
I believe I am helping through our conversations. Don't you think "built-in plugin functionality" is a clear and concise way to describe your idea?
Quote:
Do you want me to forget it and just wait until PG finally do it and then you say "WOW PG this is great we didn't think you could do it" ?
No. What I said earlier is "you not repeat the same suggestion many times. Posting a suggestion once each year is enough. If us users don't understand we can ask a question. If PG Music doesn't act on the suggestion by the time the next release comes out, post a reminder." I might add, sarcastic remarks reduces the impact of your suggestion and follow up comments.
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Or do you want to play a part in helping it get there ? Did you try the SFZ YET ?
You're repeating yourself again.
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Is it all way too much over your head and it's easier to knock it than try to learn what's going on ?
Another sarcastic remark, really? No it's not over my head. I understand you are demonstrating the idea of how fast and powerful the plugin could be if the plugin had built-in plugin functionality. But as I said before, PG Music is using bridge programs and has not publicly demonstrated any interest in switching to built-in plugin functionality.
No! they (audio producers) won't be going near the main program ! They are DAW users, they don't want to learn the main program,
I disagree. Audio producers learn new products everyday. Yes time is money. The time audio producers spend learning how to use the chord sheet to build a song arrangement is money they may not loose because they can't get the audio track their customer desires when the customer needs it.
Your assumption is audio producers will not try the main Band-in-a-Box program because of the look of the interface and difficulty to use. Of course I disagree.
Been there done that:
Originally Posted By: solidrock
I was speaking to a Music producer in Nashville an I mentioned BIAB, he replied "Myself, I find the user interface to BIAB one of the most confounding, and downright biggest UI messes ever, but that's just me. But... that is a great program in terms of what it can do and those real tracks they use now, sound more realistic than anything anyone has going. It really is fantastic." (he also has friends who have recorded for PG)
Well I don't think he is the only one, this is something we hear most often. I mentioned Realband as how many even know of it's existence ?
I think PG needs to vastly improve and promote RB as a decent DAW that can generate Real Tracks that can be used in this Industry and get away from the Auto Accompaniment of BIAB. It is great to use even 1 or 2 RTs in a session.
PG you need to remove all reminiscent of DOS and make it more solid and reliable so it can compete on the world stage with the other sleek DAWs, what other DAWs can do what RB can do ? not even Cubase Chord Track !
Most in this Industry use DAWs, it would be a no brainer to move to RB.
PG I know you will see the picture and get there eventually, but it just takes soooo long.
Thanks.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research ― Albert Einstein
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!
His latest video, Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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