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Interesting. That nicely sews together several other modulations.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Someone could use a diminished chord based on some technical music theory basis.
I guess it depends on the style of music. I use them at times in certain "old school" blues progressions and a few other places. For the type of music that appeals to me, I don't find them often useful. It is the two-chord of any natural minor scale but I don't find I use it very often.
Then again, I am not a very skilled arranger. I do like the sound of fully diminished being used as transitional chords in the spaces between major scale notes. For example, going from C major to C# diminished to D minor as in "I've Got Friends in Low Places"
There have been musicians who like to use them...lol
Here There and Everywhere Michelle If I Fell My Sweet Lord I Want You (She's So Heavy) Blue Jay Way And I Love Her
Even a country guy or two.
I've Got Friends in Low Places
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
They exist, they are clearly placed in most keys and, equally, are avoided or substituted by many players. I tried to use them but I didn't learn any when beginning so, as with all new chords, they don't come to hand automatically. I usually substitute something similar but different. A short bridge to modulation instead of jumping off a cliff.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Rob is clearly a very smart man and a great guitar player. I support him on Patreon.
I am a guitar player. Sometimes my eyes glass a bit listening to 20 minutes of theory. I get the math, but not a lot of guitar players do. So, without all the underlying theory here's 2 situations where the diminished 7 works great for me.
The quick and dirty if you will.
Consider a standard 12bar blues in F. I will assume Nashville notation is understood. This helps moving it to other keys.
1. I use the 1 diminished chord against the 4 chord (Bb) in the progression. Call it Fdim, Abdim, Bdim, Ddim - whatever you like. I'll normally hit the Bb for a beat then quickly voice the diminished for the remainder of the bar. This sounds best where the 4chord is a dom7 (b7) vice a maj7 or maj6 chord. More tension. Comping I'll run the inversions up the neck. Good guitar practice Soloing I often get by just playing the arpeggios. Again Good practice Sounds great there. Get in get out before you get back to the 1.
2. I use the #5 diminished against the 5 chord (C7). It also works great against altered chords (b9,#9, b13,#13) either comping or soloing Call it C#dim, Edim, Gdim, Bbdim. Symmetricity is a beautiful thing, even if its not a word. Same ideas. It sounds great in a minor blues especially one with a 2-5-1 turnaround back to the tonic. You can't linger. Whip it out, let it sound, & move on.
Hope this makes sense to somebody. Its not all that hard. Be fearless. That helps a good bit.
Last edited by mrgeeze; 04/02/2307:09 AM.
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Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
These fingering positions are part of the issue with diminished chords on the guitar.
With these fingering positions, you can be forced to mute as many as three strings...not exactly easy
This is a diminished seventh chord in a moveable form and fingering position that is not too difficult to play. I use this most of the time. I usually (right or wrong) think of this diminished seventh chord as a " diminished" chord and the three-note diminished chord as a minor flat five.
This A# diminished chord came up in a song Dan just posted, which was in the key of Bb. I had to seriously think about how to play over that "out of key" chord. Switch from Bb natural minor to A# Locrian mode...lol Got over my head pretty quickly...lol
When this post first started, I never realized how many songs I have played that had diminished chords. Now it seems like they are coming up every day...lol
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 04/21/2311:47 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
This is a diminished seventh chord in a moveable form and fingering position that is not too difficult to play. I use this most of the time. I usually (right or wrong) think of this diminished seventh chord as a " diminished" chord and the three-note diminished chord as a minor flat five.
This A# diminished chord came up in a song Dan just posted, which was in the key of Bb. I had to seriously think about how to play over that "out of key" chord. Switch from Bb natural minor to A# Locrian mode...lol Got over my head pretty quickly...lol .............................. Billy
I also think of a diminished chord as a minor flat 5 chord and I write it as such.
I believe technically if the key of Dan's song is actually Bb then that diminished 7th chord is Bb diminished 7th.
Last edited by MarioD; 04/21/2312:48 PM.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
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