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Some very good points. I've offered to play for tips. I guess I should have a fee as well cause as you say it shows how desperate I am.
I actually got a little lucky and when i stopped by at what i considered the most appropriate places that I've been I got to talk to the person hiring the entertainment. Here is the deal. All 3 places basic hire:
1. classic rock
2. blues
3. regae
One place is 5 nights a week, one is two nights a week & one is four nights a week.
The consensus is to them it doesn't matter that on the off nights nobody is there. They WILL NOT hire anything other then the type of acts they already have.Wouldn't matter if I brought in 500 people.
Straight out of the horses mouth. These places just don't like County. Period.
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soneday if i practiced more i may be able to create a demo as good as your's when that day comes i might consider a weekly live streaming show showcasing what i could do the idea is to send links to the stream to folks who might want to hire me here is a google link to some sites to consider for such an adventure live streaming sites
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Quote:
Some very good points. I've offered to play for tips. I guess I should have a fee as well cause as you say it shows how desperate I am.
I actually got a little lucky and when i stopped by at what i considered the most appropriate places that I've been I got to talk to the person hiring the entertainment. Here is the deal. All 3 places basic hire:
1. classic rock
2. blues
3. regae
One place is 5 nights a week, one is two nights a week & one is four nights a week.
The consensus is to them it doesn't matter that on the off nights nobody is there. They WILL NOT hire anything other then the type of acts they already have.Wouldn't matter if I brought in 500 people.
Straight out of the horses mouth. These places just don't like County. Period.
First, sent me those links I would love to hear them. Second, pros don't play for free period. Keep going out to these places, hear what the entertainment is doing and keep talking to them. How you talk to them is important too, you have to convey the impression you've been around, done some good things over the years, worked with some people, name drop a little, talk like a pro.
Versatility is the key so you may have to do another demo to show you are doing exactly what they want to hear. My friends and I have several different demos depending on the proposed gig. Doing commercial gigs has very little to do with your taste, it's a business and you have to play what they want. Good luck, man.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I'd like to hear peoples' thoughts on what musicians can do to cultivate the impression that real live music adds something that the alternatives lack.
1) Pursue EXCELLENCE in your performance at ll times.
Whatever it takes, get R done. Practice, of course. But there is so much more to turning in a Strong Performance than just the rote practicing part. Pursue a trustworthy critic that knows the business and see if you can get them to honestly evaluate your act and if they tell you any aspect of it that they feel could stand improvement, by all means pursue that avenue until you have conquered whatever it is.
2) LOVE your audience.
Don't become one of those musicians who play only what they want to play, ignoring what their audience wants to hear. If they want to hear a song that you feel is quite the cheezy number, for whatever reason, don't fall into the ego trap of making fun of their choice or refusing to play their song. A lot of those songs may be easy - and that's a plus, actually.
As Les Paul so famously put it, "Some of those guys get up on the stage and want to make the customers listen, even if they have to tie 'em to the bastool!" The customers are who pays you. The workin' guy who wants to hear that song and be taken away from the worries of the workday deserves your respect and you should joyfully play the song he requests whenever you can. Then one more customer will come back and pay to see you again and very likely will talk it up to others as well.
3) Help the venue owner or manager SELL their product. If a restaurant, take the time to get to know the menu and add it to your between song chatter once in a while. Bars, this should be easy enough to accomplish. I once asked a bartender at a joint I was playing solo piano in which kinda booze he had too much of. He instantly replied, "The Tequila. For some reason, nobody ever orders the Marguarita or even a straight shot with lime and salt around here."
Before my break was over, I had a little conversation with one of the waitresses, pressed ten spot into her hand, and after I had played the first three songs of the next set, up she comes onstage with a tray, lime, salt and a shot of Tequila. Mmmmm. Thok. A bit of patter included, of course.
The guy couldn't believe it, people started ordering Tequila shots.
Needless to say, the relationship with that particular club and myself got a little bit better.
4) All of the above can - and should - be applied, with a little creativity, to ANY venue, from the bar through the church through the retirement community homes, weddings, bar mitzvahs, you name it.
--Mac
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Mac,
you're not only a talented and intelligent person.. you've also been blessed with wisdom.
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Before getting whacked with cancer I had a standing Saturday afternoon gig all set up. As host of an open mic program. Even did a dry run with 7 friends showing up and singing/playing with me. The logic went like this.
1. Saturday p.m. is dead, no football games, no basketball games, and unless it's the worldly series, no baseball to speak of that anyone really goes to a bar to see.
2. Lots of 'older' folks like me, want to take down the gear by 8 p.m.
3. I'd play music to cater to the 45 to 60 set, often the hubby will have a few and the wife will drive home. LOL (that's my bride eh?)
I'm now on day 150 of living with cancer. Hoping for day 175 when they yank out the lymph nodes and declare things are under control. And very slowly getting my voice back. I'm still bored which was the reason for going to the extreme of hosting an open mic show for $150 a day. With a promise that if it worked I might do both Friday 5 to 9 on an invitational basis. (I have 3 good friends who all are really great but don't want a band or the commitment but can show up and wow the crowd. OK so one of them wants to headline a full orchestra with horns etc, and is pretty much good enough but that's almost impossible.
I promise to find something he can sing so I can post it, the restriction on covers constrains even me.
Chew that one over. It's a new market, and just requires some 'dj' personality, some of your own covers, and like I said, find guys who have some talent who want you to do the backing track to Green Green Grass of Home. And when you go on break cue up the Rat Pack. LOL.
OH, and I've started drinking again. A coffee takes 45 minutes. I had a beer the other day. Took an hour and a half. Guess the wild days of drinking are done!!!! (:
John Conley
Musica est vita
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John,
Reading your post got so me ugly once again I think I'll pop a cork.
Yesterday I went to one of the local Restaurants that I had dropped off a CD & package to. They have one of those outdoor patio bars nicely covered. They have DJ on WED. and bands Thurs,Fri,Sat. Rock, blues, Regae etc. Sun, Mon, Tues they are dead. So this little snotty 23 years old comes out and says" I've got 1500 people that want to play here so I really don't have time to talk. Have you been here FRI & Sat to see if you can untertain out customers?" I said "no I haven't but I can tell by what you have that I wouldn't. I'm thinking that I could come in on Sun, Mon, or Tues and see if we can get some of the older crowd in hear." He says " you need to come here on Fri or Sat and have 2 or 3 beers and see if you can entertain our customers" I say " yea whatever" and walk out."
This kid was just arrogant about his position as entertainment Mgr and had no interest in attracting anyone into the place other then his young buddies & bimbos.
PS: BTW this is why I've been offering to play for tips. I know in all of these places that I wont satisfy the clientèle they have on there regular nights. I'm offering to come in on an off night and see if I can pull in a little different crowd. I've never been a restaurant/bar owner and don't have a clue but it seems reasonable to me. If you have entertainment 4 nights a week why wouldn't you give someone an opportunity to come in for nothing on another night?
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Silvertones--
Not a good attitude if you want the gig, man.
You have to be at the service of whoever is running the venue.
Or at least make the good appearance that you are.
No matter what.
Instead of getting into all that whatever about the person, when they made the suggestion that you should come down on a whatever night and see their shindig, a good answer is simply, "I may just do that," or the like, followed by a nice thank you, firm handshake and goodbye for now.
Attitude, man.
You have the Aptitude.
Aptitude + Attitude = Altitude
Don't let all that personal crapola get in the way of your chosen goals.
--Mac
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I don't get what in my post set you off. YIKES.
I spent a lot of time dealing with the likes of the guy you described. The best were managers of Radio Shacks, guy gets his first tie and sells barky dogs and when you tell him he can't store stuff above the sprinkler system he rolls his eyes. I had a real bad one, got the district manager's boss on the phone, and got him fired, and the rest got the memo. It was "yes sir" for 2 years after that.
Everyone wants Karoke or open mic, because it's almost free. You gotta compete. Bottom line.
What Mac said.
I'm studying the Stan Kenton story. Back to that. Good stuff. Did he invent the Mellophone?
My son used to day, "Dad you need to smoke up". I took wee white pills instead. Now I don't. Either.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
You have to be at the service of whoever is running the venue.
several years ago I tried to break into the cartoonist market. Many magazines solicit freelance artwork and cartoons, but the request that appears in all of them is this: "Please read our magazine for a while before you submit"
A completely different cartoon gets published in the NEW YORKER, READERS DIGEST, PLAYBOY, NEWSWEEK, FAMILY, etc etc. Businesses usually make out better by identifying and serving the wants of a specific group. By trying to appeal generally to everybody, they appeal specifically to nobody.
These businesses you're talking to are just focusing on a different demographic than the one you want to serve. No need to resent them. They have their act together, but so do you. Each of you understands exactly who your natural audience is
If you want to play at these places, play to their audience's preference.
If you want to play your music, get creative about finding new places
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Quote:
This kid was just arrogant about his position as entertainment Mgr and had no interest in attracting anyone into the place other then his young buddies & bimbos.
If you have entertainment 4 nights a week why wouldn't you give someone an opportunity to come in for nothing on another night?
The consensus is to them it doesn't matter that on the off nights nobody is there. They WILL NOT hire anything other then the type of acts they already have.Wouldn't matter if I brought in 500 people.
Straight out of the horses mouth. These places just don't like County. Period.
One thing that I came to understand very early in my music career is that most places are marketing a brand. They are blues bars, or Country Bars, or Rock Bars and they are not going to do anything that confuses the marketing of that brand. If they are branding themselves as a Blues venue, they don't want to confuse their customers and have them ask "Is this a Country night or a Blues Night?". By the same token, if they are targeting a youth market they don't want to make the customer ask if it is a youth night or a baby boomer night. That is a reality that I think you can understand since you seem to have branded yourself as a Country act and perhaps an older market act.
There were lots of places to play in our locale when I was a young musician, but each place had its own musical identity (Hard Rock, Classic Rock, Blues, top 40, Country, Disco, dinner music etc) which locked us out of some places since our intial repretoire consisted of rock and nothing else. I remember a very agonizing band meeting that we had where we asked some very hard questions and one of those questions was "are we rock musicians OR are we MUSICIANS ?".....and if we were the latter, were we talented enough and professional enough to play whatever was necessary to get work and entertain the regular customers of just about any kind of establishement that we went into. I understand having a musical identity as a musician, because I had to swallow hard back then to learn disco sets and dinner music sets but we did it, and we went from working occassional weekends to having to turn work down because we could have worked 7 nights a week if we wanted to. We were hired to play everything from rock bars to an AARP convention and had no trouble entertaining those very diverse crowds. We played Country music back then too, as i do now, but it is just ONE of many styles that I'm comfortable playing in.
The thing to remember is that you and the entertainment manager that you are so upset with are two peas in a pod. For good or bad you have branded your product and narrowed your market.
Keith
2024 Audiophile Windows 11 AMD RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,Cakewalk,Raven Mti
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One thing's for sure: boomers are still a majority of the population. You may need to get creative about finding them, but they aren't extinct yet.
Let's brainstorm ways to find boomer gigs
1) break out the phone book and make a list of organizations and clubs
2) send all of them a press release/letter introducing yourself, including a link to your songs online (or save postage and go door to door, handing them a flyer)
3) offer to play at their next function, and sell the sizzle. Talk about how live music brings more people, which means more sales. Enthusiasm is contagious.
4) places where boomers go, and there isn't necessarily live music, but there could be:
a) bingo
b) skating centers (many have a day set aside for older skaters)
c) flea markets
d) steak houses (definitely oriented toward country music)
e) pubs
f) clubs
g) book stores
h) coffee shops
i) rest homes
j) city parks & recreation, downtown revitalization often offer live music
k) any restaurant where the manager is a boomer (I've noticed that you can tell the age of a store manager by the music that is playing in the store/restaurant). Apparently you are going to places that are run by a different generation. Government bureaucracies and big business tend to have more seasoned employees making the calls.
the list could go on and on... but the phone book can yield surprising results if you use it. In business it isn't enough to HAVE a service you can provide... you also need to find customers, negotiate a fair price , advertise, please the customer etc etc. If you think of it as a business instead of as a hobby, it changes everything. In the eyes of your clients you immediately go from being one of 1500 bums looking for a handout to being an entrepreneur who has ideas and skills that can help them make money.
Notes Norton is a perfect example of a professional musician whose enthusiasm, pursuit of excellence and desire to please the customer put him wayyyy ahead of the rest who are competing for the same gigs.
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John,
My wife and I do about 20 gigs a month in senior residences. They don't pay much, but there is great satisfaction in playing for seniors -- they do appreciate it and let you know. Contact the activity director.
Bob Coy
Bob Coy
HP Desktop
Windows 10 Home, AMD A6-7310, 6GB Ram 1TB Hard drive. Radeon Graphics & Sound
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John,
It wasn't actually you it was that someone was willing to talk to you about something different.
Mac I actually wasn't rude I really just said OK I'll check it out. That was my inner self talking. It does that a lot.
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American Legion and VFW posts.
R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
American Legion and VFW posts.
R.
I've played these clubs at least at least 10,000 times in my life. Those would be the first I hit if there were any.
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This is a great thred not just for me but for anyone new to this playing out with BIAB or RB. Now I have a story to tell that I shouldn't but will. It was my whole reason for this request for help.Here goes. First some background.
Where I live is in the corner of NC, Ga & Tn.Most of the NC Counties around me & Ga Counties were dry until 2 years ago. No bars of course. No live music. After going around to all the places in the City that have music it was apparent my stuff was a no go. Murphy NC is the only City that is not dry. Everywhere else in NC & Ga still are. So I said where did the folks go for booze. I know I'll find a place. I headed down the 4 lane out of Town and crossed into Tenn. Low and behold about 1/4 into Tenn. is Freddy's Lounge. I pull in and sure enough it's your old time beer joint but no dirty quite well kept. Pool tables smells like beer & cigarettes. Feels like home! I have a CD and song list and talk to the wife of Freddy who of course is the owner as well and books the music. She likes the spiel I give her and is very interested in getting rid of the second rate hard rock bands she's been forced to have. She tells me they used to have a one man band a year or so back but he got married and left. This all happened on Friday. She said she'd listen and call me back on Sat. Well she never did. My only conclusion is that she thought I sucked. Well I was in WalMart today and all of a sudden the new message sound goes off on my cell. It's the owner of the club and wants to know if I can play Sat. night. She called yesterday but my phone decided not to let me know until today.
So I'm on for Sat and more nervous then a dog crapping on a brier bush. I"m well rehearsed and with 45 years under my belt it will pass and I'll probably actually feed on it.
As a side note when I was in there Fri all the cars in the lot were from NC & I recognized a few of the folks. Who knows if they like what I do they may bring the word back to some of the bars in town.
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I meantioned earlier that i met a local solo act the other night while walking along the harbor area sidewalk. he invited my wife and I to come back last night and see his show, so we did. Very nice fellow, and very solid performer. He waved and remembered our names, and welcomed us to the crowd, seemed to know some of the regulars names as well. He played a mix of country, pop, and a lot of Jimmy Buffet type music. We actually met some old friend i have not seen for 20 years at the venue (outside eating area overlooking the harbor with a killer sunset) The guys name is Gary Siler, and when i left i yelled back thank Gary great show, he was between songs and yell to me to come up to the stage and gives me a CD. Very cool! This dude knows how to work a crowd, and make friends. I will go back and see him again. He was very encouraging to me to take a shot and find a small venue to play and get that desire fullfilled.
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Robh,
Like I said I'm gonna do it for the first time in 8 years. Play music live that is. And the last times were under the security of a band. I'll let know how it went on Sunday.
Give it a shot and see how it goes for you.
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Pulling for you John - you'll be just fine.
Does this temperance stuff cover much area down there?
Ian
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"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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Forums66
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Jan 19th, 2020
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