PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box VST and Pro Tools/AAX DAW Plugin (Windows) How I use Band in a Box

Here some explanation about my usual workflow, how I use Band in a Box. It may explain a bit, why certain functionality of the plugin is cruicial for me and/or why some current behaviors are a bit annoying.

1st step:
It usually starts all with some roughly recorded song idea, jam session, band rehearsal or recording from a live gig. I load it into the bbw64.exe as an audio file for a new song. As usually there are all kind of tempo changes in it, I use the ACW to determine tempo and to tempo equalize the audio towards the desired tempo. This makes later processing a lot easier, and is also necesssay when using the bbw plugin with my DAW later. Here comes my first big wish: Often there is a desired ritardando or tempon change at a certain point of the song. ACW is currently not able to equalize the tempo only for a particular area, it can only do the whole song, which leads to problems later on.
During this phase I just use a drum track from bbw to determine the sync. All other style tracks are muted at this point. I use a one chorus structure with the required amount of bars.

2nd step:
I try to determine the appropriate chords and enter them at the chord sheet along with the A/B part markers for intros, verses, bridges and choruses. Most times the chord detection is not very reliable. It seems to be easier to enter the chords manually to the chord sheet. The copy and paste functions help a lot here.During this step I usually just unmute some drums and a guitar or piano track in bbw. This makes it easier to figure out the chords. Fequently I have to go back to the ACW to make some little timing adjustments (fine tuning) and to equalize the tempo again to a constant tempo.

3rd step:
Once the chord sheet is done, I start playing around with various styles and additional instrument tracks in bbw64.exe, until I got what I like. It is a lot faster and easier to handle than the plugin. I then save the .sgu file to my appropriate DAW song project folder.

4th step:
I open a new song as a DAW project using some DAW template where the bb plugin is already loaded with a default song. I have to ensure that the new DAW project uses the correct tempo first. Then I replace the default song in the plugin via the file menu, with the .sgu created by bbw64.exe. And I have to generate the song already generated by the .bbw64.exe once more. Usually it sounds similar but slightly different. I have no idea why the plugin can't just take the tracks previously generated, but let it be.

5th step:
I copy the audio track from the plugin to my DAW and mute or delete it on the plugin. My DAW projects use 96kHz/24 bit. Often something has to be restructured on the initial jam/song structure and that's a lot easier to be done using the DAW. Along with that, I have to correct the chordsheet at the plugin. Using the insert/delete bar function in the plugin is a real pain, as it currently does not move the part markers for A/B sections accordingly.
After several corrections, re-generations and saves of the .sgu, I usually roughly get what I wanted. Not perfect, but something audible.

6th step:
During this step I sometimes also add additional instruments using the bb plugin, change a style of a single instrument or of the whole song, Once I am happy with it, I start moving bb tracks from the plugin to DAW tracks. The BB .wav tracks are converted to 96/24 and copied to the song project folder by the DAW automatically. Sometimes I use the RTs provided, sometimes just the midi charts. Although some of the RT drum and bass tracks sound pretty good, tools like Toontrack's SD3 or EZ Bass give me a lot more control over the sound and particular notes. Thus I sometimes take the bb tracks just as source of inspiration to further elaborate the tracks with SD3, EZBass or something from the Komplete, UVI or Korg library.
Along with the tracks coming from bb, I record and edit my own instrumental and vocal tracks in my DAW, often enough whilst the bb tracks still reside within the bb plugin. All further FX, mixing and mastering happens in my DAW. I copy the used bb tracks to my DAW project before doing the final mix.

Some of the painpoints I still have with the plugin:

a) Dealing with solos and fills that should only appear at certain points in a song. I read that there's a solution using silence tracks and style changes for particular tracks. But I couldn't figure that out properly yet. Currently I just cut out what I don't need from my DAW tracks.
b) Trying to apply tempo changes during a song is a pain too. May it be a ritardando in some verse or at the end, it is a struggle to get the DAW and the plugin playback in sync. I wonder why it should not be possible for the plugin to track tempo change information from the DAW automatically, write it to the chordsheet (as option) and reflect it during the next audio track re-generation of the sgu. At least the other (midi) plugins I use seem to do so.
c) Some of my songs use specific rhythms or better to say accents or they mix 16th and trioles within the same bar. Microchords may be the solution here, but I was not able to figure that out properly yet.

There may be other workflows and possibilities to deal with the subjects above, but for me it appears somehow intuitive, simple and straight forward. Only some "little functional bridges" within the BiaB package and the plugin reliability as such missing here and there.

Hello Roland S,

I noticed you mentioned One way to work around this limitation is to cut the audio file into smaller files and then have the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) analyze each smaller file individually.

Of course everything depends on each song performance but you may find having the ACW analyze a song's intro, verses, bridges and solos separately provide more accurate results.

Thanks for posting your workflow steps. This gives good feedback for PG.
I hope PG read through and think "how can we make this process easier for users ?" especially if they are in a professional work environment.
Why can't this all be done in the DAW with the BBPlugin ? that should be the aim of PG.

Unfortunately, usually my initial song material is pretty messy. Most of the time it is just some captured ideas or jams, that will be re-recorded later anyway.

Altogether I am pretty happy with the ACW. It is still the handiest tool I came across so far, when it comes to create an initial basis track that can also be easily re-used by other tools,(e.g. my DAW). I find the time stretching and bar marking functions a lot better in ACW than anything else I have seen and tried so far.
Obviously I could split the track, process the areas seperately and join them later again. But that would be a lot of additional work, also causing further trouble.

A restriction of tempo equalization to a marked area in the ACW would be the easiest and best solution from a user perspective.

Hi Musocity,

That was the intention behind my post. Maybe it helps PG Music to focus a bit more on the essentials and strenghts of their product.

I don't mind fancy add-on stuff around, that comes handy occasionally. But what counts are the basics, that have to work smoothly, reliable and in a conveniant way.

I am not a fan of having "everything" in the plugin. But I agree that it deserves at least as much or even more attention than the standalone. This seems not to be the case at the moment.

Cheers
Roland

+1

Thank you for the detailed info Roland! I've been working on various stability improvements as suggested by you in other posts but you've made some excellent points for me to consider here. The idea of tracking tempo changes from the DAW to the plugin would require the user to play through the entire song for the plugin to record every tempo change. Instead, I would recommend that you use the bar settings dialog in the plugin to add tempo changes while you are building your song, and then import a tempo map into your DAW using the [C7] button above the chord sheet. If you do this then the plugin and DAW should be in perfect sync. I really appreciate all your great feedback!

Hi Adar,
Your efforts are highly appreciated!

Regarding your suggestion:
Unfortunately I have not found a way yet, to import tempo changes from a plugin to the DAW (Samplitude), without messing up everything else that already exists there.
Maybe it is a matter of philosophy, whether Biab accompanies the DAW or the DAW accompanies Band in a Box.
So far for me the DAW has always been the master and the plugins acted as slave, not the other way round.
It would be a bit like the tail wagging the dog.

Cheers
Roland

So Samplitude can't import the midi tempo map from a midi files dragged from the Plugin C7 ?
The Plugin needs to playback the rendered tracks with elastique this way it will sync with any decimal tempo map changes in the DAW and the files being rendered with acid info will fit the DAW if dragged in.

Samplitude can import midi and wav files and also analyze the tempo of such a track. The result can be interpreted as virtual timing grid markers or as tempo change. Even linear tempo changes between previous and following bars are possible.
This C7 copy method might work if BB was the initial DAW track.
However when applying such changes to already existing tracks the problems start, in particular with tools like Melodyne which looses all the editing done so far, but also with previously existing markers and areas in the DAW.
I would have to bounce all audio tracks beforehand, apply the tempo change, bounce again after the stretching and then save the DAW project.
Maybe I am just too stupid to do it right, but that's the experience I have made so far. That's why I rarely change the DAW tempo anymore after once having set the desired tempo map in the DAW.

It's 5 years on and it's still works the same way which is a shame as there is so much potential there to get something half decent like Toontracks.
This pic below is Biab as the Rewire master and Reaper as the slave.
Biab is playing at the same set tempo 120bpm but the tracks in Reaper are a varying tempo map but Reaper uses eleastique to sync Reaper playback rate to Biab so Reaper plays back in sync at a steady 120bpm.
The Plugin needs to work the same way and follow any DAW tempo map rather than just playing back the rendered tracks at a set tempo.
If it can't do that and generate up tracks as fast or faster than Biab then there is not really much point in using the Plugin.

Not sure whether Rewire would really be the right choice. I also heard that it is discontinued meanwhile. And there might be a couple of other conflicts and drawbacks coming along with a Rewire approach. 90% of the job happens within the DAW and BiaB should just accompany. So let's focus on ways how the the plugin could follow the DAW and not the other way round.

Here is the solution, just playback those SavedTracks wav files with elastique changing the playback rate to match the DAW tempo map.
The plugin could also do what the DAW is doing, playing the source wma and changing the pitch and rate with elastique.

Hi Musocity,
Thanks for your suggestions, but I think you lost me now. I have a bit of difficulty to understand your setup.

Where I am coming from:
I use the BB plugin as a midi track in my DAW (Samplitude) to accompany the already recorded tracks there with some further instruments. I would like the BB midi plugin to follow the DAW tempo.
Elastique pro I could apply in the DAW on selected audio tracks, but not on midi tracks (as this also isn't necessary, as usually midi plugins automatically follow the tempo given by the DAW).
If I had to copy the audio tracks from BB to the DAW first, then I could use the BB stadalone instead and the plugin would become obsolete.
The advantage of the BB plugin is, that I can easily try out various alternatives, in parallel with my work on the tracks in the DAW.

Maybe I missed out or misunderstood something.

Cheers
Roland

That info is for PG to implement in The Plugin, so the solution is for PG to fix this issue so the Plugin will follow the DAW tempo map.
See here:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=609411