I've found that exporting separate tracks in wav format produces wave files which are heavily clipped if I check the "normalise" boxes. Is this a known bug? (Band-in-a-Box® for Windows, Version 2022 (927), 64 bit)
I don't recall that this is a known bug in last year's version. It might be worth checking in version 2023, however, so please provide the steps you took.
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Where is that then? I don't see any normalise settings in the BIAB export audio section. In any case "normalise" is "normalise", i.e. amplify the wave so that the highest peak level is at digital FSD.
I've found that exporting separate tracks in wav format produces wave files which are heavily clipped if I check the "normalise" boxes. Is this a known bug? (Band-in-a-Box® for Windows, Version 2022 (927), 64 bit)
Not enough information to guess what you are doing wrong.
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One thing to check is are the tracks clipping prior to normalizing?
No, of course not, as proved by; if I don't check the normalise boxes the exported tracks are not clipped.
OK great. It wasn't clear that you did that in your initial post.
All I can suggest is the return to factory settings and if the problem continues then it is a bug.
As far as I know there are no settings for normalize in BiaB. I never use a normalizer that doesn't have settings. The free Audacity has a normalizer with settings if you need one.
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I've found that exporting separate tracks in wav format produces wave files which are heavily clipped if I check the "normalise" boxes. Is this a known bug? (Band-in-a-Box® for Windows, Version 2022 (927), 64 bit)
Not enough information to guess what you are doing wrong.
It's quite simple but I'll spell it out. I have arranged a song by inputting chords to BIAB. I choose a stock BIAB style. It plays back fine; drums, bass, 2 x guitars and piano.
I then want wav files to use in my DAW (Adobe Audition) so I choose audio > export > wav, I check one wav for each instrument, then "render" and save to a location on my PC. I get one wav file per instrument.
If I leave the "normalise" options unchecked everything is fine, but the waveforms do not use the full dynamic range available. If I check "normalise" all the tracks are amplified up to greater than digital FSD, i.e they are "clipped".
Seems like the BIAB software guys don't understand what "normalise" means or am I missing something?
You're clicking on the WAV button on the File toolbar and then choosing "Export Song as Audio File". That brings up the Render to Audio File window, correct?
Do you have the bit depth set for "32 bit IEEE"? That will cause a render to clip every time.
You're clicking on the WAV button on the File toolbar and then choosing "Export Song as Audio File". That brings up the Render to Audio File window, correct? Do you have the bit depth set for "32 bit IEEE"? That will cause a render to clip every time.
Correct. This, plus rharv's comment, were great clues as to what was happening. When I exported with normalise checked and used 16bit PCM / 44.1kHz (which is the same as the native setting in my DAW) there was no clipping.
If I leave the "normalise" options unchecked everything is fine, but the waveforms do not use the full dynamic range available. If I check "normalise" all the tracks are amplified up to greater than digital FSD, i.e they are "clipped".
Seems like the BIAB software guys don't understand what "normalise" means or am I missing something?
You are missing something. Any multitrack session will behave exactly as yours if every track is normalized first.
Mixing involves summing the results of those tracks. If they’re already at peak before you combine, they will clip. 1+1+1+1+1+1 does not = 1 but that’s what you are expecting. The more tracks, the worse it gets.
For the last 3 years, I have been making virtual choirs for churches. The tracks I get sometimes require Normalization — but then I back off. -3dB if under 8 tracks, -6dB if under 12 tracks and so on… Gotta give the mix some headroom. You aren’t doing that.
Stop normalizing tracks that don’t need it (never seen a BIAB track that did).
A couple things that helped me were to convert all tracks to 32 bit float on import (a huge improvement in headroom) and find a musical limiter, the bx_limiter True Peak from BrainWorx. bx_limiter True Peak They often have it on sale. Yesterday, it was $24.95. Most limiters cannot handle what I need for various reasons.
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I tried this in both 2022 and 2023, and did not have any clipping - tested with 16-bit and 24-bit. One thing that can affect this is having any of the faders in the mixer set above 0 (or 90 when reading MIDI values), or the master faders at the bottom of the mixer (see the screenshot below). If any of the faders are above zero, this will affect the rendered files, and it will be made worse when using the normalizer to increase the volume of each track.
You might not have heard clipping when playing the song back in BIAB, as BIAB has a built-in peak limiter, which will stop the audio from clipping. That limiter is only used when playing back, not when rendering - this is because users might want to use their own plugins for compression and limiting.
Originally Posted By: ricobasso
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
check your settings for the normalize function.
Where is that then? I don't see any normalise settings in the BIAB export audio section. In any case "normalise" is "normalise", i.e. amplify the wave so that the highest peak level is at digital FSD.
There are different ways to normalize audio. BIAB normalizes the loudest peak to 0dB FS. Other normalizers have settings to normalize to any dB level you choose, and some allow you to normalize to an RMS value.
Originally Posted By: ricobasso
the waveforms do not use the full dynamic range available
The audio files for BIAB typically use dynamic compression, so they don't usually use the full dynamic range anyway. If you were to render two files, one with normalization and one without, they would be able to completely null each other in a null test - in other words, apart from an amplitude offset, the audio is bit-for-bit exactly the same either way.
Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran
You are missing something. Any multitrack session will behave exactly as yours if every track is normalized first.
I read ricobasso's original post as meaning each individual track was clipping in isolation. Is that the case rico, or are all the tracks summed together clipping?
Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 05/23/2311:29 AM.
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