I'm back re-visiting how to make some new backing tracks for my solo guitar work.
In the past I bought and used Coyote... but now with the options in BIAB 2022 I am a little confused by the options.
Am I right thinking that the CoyoteWT is not the same as my old DXi version? From what I've read its just a wrapper of the old MS WT?
I have installed Cubase so have Roland TTS-1 - but noy convinced this is the best option.
Which leaves Sforzando and vstsynth64 as VST options. My feeling is that I should now be using VST for the MIDI output. But which of these two would you recommend? I guess the other linked question is which soundfont files to use? I'm a little unclear as to which is the PGM recommend synth between these 2?
Also I see Sforzando says there is an update available, but I think the BIAB version is specific to BIAB - is that right, or can it be upgraded via the vstsynth site?
Apologies for so many questions - I have looked thro past post and looked at the PGM tutorials.
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2025, Cubase 14, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
First, you are correct, the CoyoteWT is not the same as the old Coyote Forte DXi version. However, that old version no longer works in BIAB 64.
Second, the vstsynthfont gets my 100% recomendation. It is free with BIAB and includes the newest update.
And finally, if you look around carefully or ask the right person, you can find the Coyote Forte SF2 (which is Coyote Forte Dxi) to use with the current version of Vstsynthfont in BIAB or in your DAW.
Depends on the task. Just GM or the one that does program changes?
The top ones that I know of that do program changes are:
The budget, and the one that you probably already have is VSTsynthfont, which is very flexible. Quality depends on SF2 bank you have.
The best, in my view is Halion / Sonic from Yamaha. Comes as VSTi or stand alone software. Prior to this year, it had VST2 version, which works great in BIAB. As of now, only VST3 (and standalone). Peter Gannon confirmed in wishlist that VST3 support is coming next year, so I will hold off on upgrading for now.
...if you look around carefully or ask the right person, you can find the Coyote Forte SF2 (which is Coyote Forte Dxi) to use with the current version of Vstsynthfont in BIAB
Dan, since your posts are normally ever so clear, I'm assuming there is a reason for the lack of clarity here. I trust you so even though I don't know, I won't ask.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I mainly just use BIAB for Drums and Bass with occasional keys. I just want simple backings for my guitar. I use VST plugins (MODO Bass and SSD 5.5) in Reaper, so I'm not whether a full GM2 synth is needed... I've experimented with loading the VST's onto each track in BIAB but had a few crashes. I know I could just drag the MIDI into Reaper, but I like the spontaneity of using BIAB.
I mainly just use BIAB for Drums and Bass with occasional keys. I just want simple backings for my guitar. I use VST plugins (MODO Bass and SSD 5.5) in Reaper, so I'm not whether a full GM2 synth is needed... I've experimented with loading the VST's onto each track in BIAB but had a few crashes. I know I could just drag the MIDI into Reaper, but I like the spontaneity of using BIAB.
Loz, your Modo should work on your bass line, just be sure that you are using the VST 2 version.
SSD-5 will not work for your drums because it is not GM compliant. You will need a VST 2 GM compliant drum kit. I think Addictive Drums 2 is VST2 and it has a GM drum setting. Google/Bing and I'm sure you will find others. DO NOT get a VST 3 version as VST 3 plug-ins will not work in BiaB right now. It has been rumored VST 3 is coming soon though.
I hope this helps.
My momma didn't raise a fool. And if she did it, was one of my brothers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I may well have been loading the VST3 modo bass, hence the crashes.
I find when I drag the bass midi to Reaper that it is 1 octave below where it needs to be to trigger Modo Bass.... not sure whether I need change the mapping on Modo or if I can get BIAB to automatically increase the bass octave by 1? Need to do some testimng.
Regarding SSD drums... interestingly that has worked ok to a point. I see its not GM compliant... but it seems very close and I have a GM midi map for it... so hoping I can get that working well.
I find when I drag the bass midi to Reaper that it is 1 octave below where it needs to be to trigger Modo Bass.... not sure whether I need change the mapping on Modo or if I can get BIAB to automatically increase the bass octave by 1? Need to do some testimng.
Regarding SSD drums... interestingly that has worked ok to a point. I see its not GM compliant... but it seems very close and I have a GM midi map for it... so hoping I can get that working well.
Thanks for your help.
Bass guitar and regular guitars are written one octave higher than they sound. That is so all of the notes will stay in either the bass clef for the bass or the treble clef for guitars with out a lot of ledger lines.. BiaB writes bass in actual notation. Good sounding bass VSTis expect the input to be an octave higher, i.e. as written for a bass. Hence your problem. If you raise the BiaB bass track 1 octave it will not sound right in BiaB.
The very first thing I do when I bring MIDI into my DAW I raise the bass track one octave as I also have good bass VSTis.
For your I like the spontaneity of using BIAB statement forget using SSD-5 drums and use a GM drum kit. Many BiaB drum tracks use percussion and SSD-5 has no percussion instruments, only a major drum kit: This is true for many good drum VSTis. There are some really good SF2, and SFZ GM drums available.
On a side note I when I bring a GM drum track into my DAW, Studio One Pro 6, I assign the SSD-5 drum VSTi to it. I then explode all notes to different tracks and label said tracks, i.e. kick, snare, crash cymbal, etc. Then I find the matching SSD-5 to the track label. If I want this also allows me to assign various SSD-5 kits to individual tracks and to assign various percussion instruments as needed.
I hope this helps.
{edit} - PS, don't forget you can use Realdrums also.
Last edited by MarioD; 05/05/2303:06 AM.
My momma didn't raise a fool. And if she did it, was one of my brothers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Mario, questions about the correct register when writing notation for guitar and bass show up here pretty often. Would you consider making a post with your helpful info for the Tips and Tricks Forum?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Brilliant... thanks Mario, that is very informative and helpful.
I see in the channel prefs I can change the bass from -1 to 0... which if I have my Modo Bass vst assigned works fine, but as you say a regular midi synth would then be 'wrong'.
So it looks like using a GM is probably best in BIAB and then finish off in Reaper using my dedicated vst's.
I've experimented with readdrums... but I'm trying to get a consistent (and editable) drums and bass tone for each song, much as you would get with a live band if that makes sense.
Mario, questions about the correct register when writing notation for guitar and bass show up here pretty often. Would you consider making a post with your helpful info for the Tips and Tricks Forum?
I just uploaded some information into the Tips and Tricks forum. I hope it isn't to complicated.
My momma didn't raise a fool. And if she did it, was one of my brothers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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