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Songwriting
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"...connect more quickly with your audience."
Most of this is about writing for an audience.
"...songs that are charting..."
"Songs only go for three and a half minutes."
They're talking about the middle road, writing as craft, following the "rules" and they reserve expression for the lyric.
They probably write pleasant stuff for pleasant people performed pleasantly.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Songwriting
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Expert
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…
They probably write pleasant stuff for pleasant people performed pleasantly. Ray is being much kinder than any of my thoughts on that video. Interesting waste of 25 minutes unless the goal is to bore the crap out of audiences at open mics. Trying to remember how many songs of mine have ever begun with chords or a chord progression. Hmmm... Nope, still none.
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Songwriting
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…
They probably write pleasant stuff for pleasant people performed pleasantly. Ray is being much kinder than any of my thoughts on that video. Trying to rehab my rep for criticism...but you're accurate. I had to think of ways to damn with faint praise.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
Apprentice
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"How To Write Songs" is such a bullshit premise to start with. You either can or you can't. Now a good mentor or publisher can help you improve the talent you have, but if the floor of talent isn't sufficient to begin with, learning "craft" will only make you a well-crafted crappy songwriter.
Not trying to inflame the masses, as I know some of you have contrary opinions on this, but that's my professional experience.
Last edited by Roger Brown; 06/04/23 04:21 AM.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 621
Journeyman
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"Talent" is what is a bullshit premise. What people call talent is the end result of a long, hard road of work.
You absolutely can learn to write songs. Same way you learn anything else.
Last edited by Byron Dickens; 06/04/23 07:49 AM.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Songwriting
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Nope.
Believe what you want, I'll go with what I've seen to be true.
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Songwriting
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And I'll go with what I've done.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Songwriting
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And I'll go with my resume' of what I'VE done.
Look, I haven't heard your stuff. You may be a really great writer. Assuming you are, it's because you had the ability to begin with.
You can't teach "anyone" to write songs (good songs being the qualifier) anymore than you can teach "anyone" to throw a 99 mph fastball, or run a 4.4 second 40 yrd dash. Talent is real, it exists. And to excel at certain things, it's a prerequisite.
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Songwriting
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I have to agree with Mr Dickens.
I've only heard a smidgen of his writing but that is beside the point.
I've had a listen to some of your stuff Mr Brown and couldn't really hear what generated the hubris. Nice enough stuff, but stuff that adheres to a lot of craft, format, genre and other rules - like those suggested in the video. Mind you that's probably more a matter of my taste than a detailed analysis of things I'm disinclined to listen to.
In Australia we discern between the gifted and the talented.
As demonstrated in the video - ANYONE can write a song...take the video, implement it's reccos in BIAB and you're done. Doesn't mean it's decent, good or great but it's a song.
Some folk are gifted and, with a few skills added, do fab musical things with songs while others learn through graft & craft, develop skills, taste & to and do great things.
There's usually an audience of at least one for each song written...I know and I'm that one for me.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Songwriting
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Pure bovine excrement.
Not only are you trying to move the goal posts here, comparing a basic level of intellectual achievement with the highest level feats of athletic prowess is a false analogy.
The subject of the video -and by extension this discussion - is how to write "a song," For Beginners. Not how to write a masterpiece.
Everyone's got to start somewhere. Not even the towering Johann Sebastian Bach wrote the St. Matthew's Passion his first time out.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Songwriting
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Nope.
Believe what you want, I'll go with what I've seen to be true. Songwriting Suggestions is quite a subjective term. I enjoyed much of the material I listened to on this web site. I think that proves that a more objective and quality delivery is also possible. However, not everyone will achieve the same level. Not everyone will be a Bacharach or a McCartney or an Elton, nor is there room for that also 
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
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The recurring nature vs nurture arguments always remind me of hours of psychology grad school debates. Enough so to keep me on the sidelines.  Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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I usually stay far far away from any and all instructional videos of this ilk, including people who make money telling people after the fact that Stairway to Heaven is a great song. Really? Wow!!!! I never knew that. Jimmy is playing an A minor Pentatonic??? For real?? Holy Cow. I have a favorite artist and she is from San Francisco (and a genius) and one time I told her I had shown some songs to a certain group for some feedback. She said: "How in the world could any real artist with one iota of dignity and self respect lay their pearls at the feet of THOSE PEOPLE??" It was pretty funny. She was horrified. Most real artists I know are like that and they don't listen to YouTube videos on how to write a song.
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Songwriting
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"How in the world could any real artist with one iota of dignity and self respect lay their pearls at the feet of THOSE PEOPLE??"
I've thought that a time or two myself
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Songwriting
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"How To Write Songs" is such a bullshit premise to start with. You either can or you can't. "Talent" is what is a bullshit premise. What people call talent is the end result of a long, hard road of work. Of course, you're both wrong If you have a halfway decent IQ, you can learn anything. But, and this is the important thing, how fast you learn and how far up the ladder you can climb is talent. You can make up for a lack of talent with work, and vice versa. But only up to a certain point. Anyway, I agree that it's a waste of time watching the video.
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If you have a halfway decent IQ, you can learn anything…
Hmmm … as a psychologist that certainly garnered my attention! I have to ask what you consider a “halfway decent” IQ? I’m certainly bereft of that level. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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They 'guarantee' ....
Some people have a knack, call it a talent, for whatever, which they can develop and hone and improve. Others do not.
Is it possible that everyone has the same talents but in some they are simply hidden or latent? That's sort of my default assumption, but experiences have shown me that's just not the case.
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I think it's a natural talent... or the inborn love for doing something that drives each of us to do what we love to do, as well as taking the time to develop that natural ability. I love music and writing songs and have worked on that to develop it beyond the basic levels of the average musician. By the same token I don't like doing some other things but can do them to a respectable level of competency...such as welding, but I don't have the desire to work or study the art of welding to get to the level that I see others capable of.
If you listen to what accomplished songwriters say, this seems to be the case with many of them. They love the art of writing but have gotten better by working at it, studying it, and writing with others who are better or at least at the same level of writing as they are.
I don't think it's a cut and dry, one side or the other proposition. Many factors contribute to how well you do anything, even the things that seem to come naturally for some while not so much for others, take time and effort to refine.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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If you have a halfway decent IQ, you can learn anything…
Hmmm … as a psychologist that certainly garnered my attention! I have to ask what you consider a “halfway decent” IQ? Below average is sufficient. Retarded usually is not. The higher the IQ, the more complex the level of abstraction of your explanation can be and vice versa. But a good teacher will be able to adapt and convey the essentials.
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