|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 892
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 892 |
How might AI enhance the BIAB product line in the future?
Could it replace/enhance the current logic used in putting together a track performance?
Is there any initiative at PG Music to explore whether and how AI might be used in the future ?
Last edited by mrgeeze; 07/30/23 02:08 AM.
biab2026(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS (Latest)
Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro (latest or pretty close)
Blue and White Sea Star
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,110
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,110 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,873
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,873 |
Lets be honest.... who really hasn't already thought that there's some AI voodoo-hoodoo majic going on inside this box? But without actually confirming it with Dr. PG...... I'll bet they're already hard at work integrating AI in some form or another into the box.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7,268
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7,268 |
Herb,
Somebody might correct if I am wrong, but BIAB is programmed algorithms with some randomization happening.
You can throw rocks at me, but I find AI + music a bit disturbing. In a sense, why would one even want to go that route? Not enough music "out there"? I think what we have now (the common tools: BIAB, EZkeys, Chording apps, Synths & arps) are borderline between advance tools and cookie molds. In my view, one has to tinker with music because they have a passion to create something new, to reflect thoughts, mood, protest, learn, or something of that nature.
Obviously, there is nothing wrong with experimenting with anything, but I think one has to ask a question: Why I am doing this?
Sure there is/will be many uses for AI in music such as Meditation, time spending, relaxation, not to mention technicalities (like mixing assist) embellishing, jingles for commercials, elevator music and whole bag of other uses.
Personally, I would not want more than 5-10% of AI in stuff I am tinkering with. And even that is more for learning purposes and tech assist. It's like this... Would you go to art school to learn how to "paint by number"?
--------------------------------------------
I believe...instead of asking PGmusic to do AI stuff, it's better to leave it to what they do best. Record talented musicians and make RTs/RDs/Midis and examples of styles. As far as AI stuff and BIAB goes...VST3 (and future variants) will most likely support AI tech in deep ways and in my opinion the best approach would be for PGmusic to fully integrate with VST/VSTi technology and make the best use of it such as: Routing, drag and drop and other input, ergonomics, etc.
P.S. A short example. With relatively new Chord Track, now you can relatively easily integrate whole bunch of pattern/sequence/arp items in your BIAB workflow (VSTi) such as NI, EZkeys, Synthmaster and dozens more. It was confirmed that VST3 support is coming to BIAB in 2024.... Well in 2023, for most of us, early buyers.
The end.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,275
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,275 |
The only reasonable role I can see a for A.I. in the current version/configuration is for creating melodies in the soloist/melodist section.
I've tried the melodist a few times to get a melody for a backing I'd built but junked 99% of what was offered.
That was a good thing because it pushed me back to collaborating again.
I don't use BIAB to auto generate anything but a scratch band arrangement, according to an amended style, based on my chord selections, structure etc. To be fair I replace much of that once in a DAW.
Besides, left alone, BIAB backings lean towards the generic or bland...I can't imagine allowing A.I. to further generalise, average and data derive on top of that.
PLUS there's far too much work needed dealing with legacy code, "work-a-rounds" & glitches.
Last edited by rayc; 07/29/23 09:06 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,167
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,167 |
Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,143
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,143 |
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though.
FWIW, we two humans prefer to do a bit more than tinker around the edges.  And we love those on demand great BiaB session players. J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,758
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,758 |
Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
Item 3 above gets my vote. And someone recently posted difficulty in finding a style along the lines of Riders of the Storm by the Doors, so I know there is other interest in this enhancement. Here is a Wishlist post on this subject. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=101811&Number=769911#Post769911
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,727
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,727 |
Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though. Good ideas but how much money are you willing to pay for all of those suggestions. I can picture a range of $800 to $1000 USD for the compressed audio version. I would much rather have PGMusic work on fixing current problems like time signatures, all tracks equal, etc, and improving and creating new styles and recording RTs and RDs. YMMV
I arrived early to a restaurant.
The manager asks, "do you mind waiting a bit?"
I said no.
"Good", he said. "Take these drinks to table 3"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
Besides, left alone, BIAB backings lean towards the generic or bland. Couldn't that be at least part way remedied by bring in some new blood to play the track samples? Outside of the same small handful of prime time names, the rest are largely just a little bit better than average. John Jarvis, Bryan Sutton, Paul Franklin are the only names I know (but I don't get out much). I have heard all I need from Brent Mason. I suppose there are other names in the jazz milieu that I just don't know about, but to look at pedal steel, it's mostly Paul Dunlop and Paul Franklin, and 3 other guys I have never heard of. Piano has 18 names, but only one I know at all. It is largely Miles Black, Blair Masters (who after researching I see is credited on 994 albums), Mike Rojas (1,239 albums), Jeff Lorber and John Jarvis. I know Jarvis and Lorber from having things they played on. 9 sax players. (None of them Norton, but he is probably too busy talking about himself, almost being signed by Motown, and flexing about playing "15 to 20 gigs a month" and on that whole fleet of cruise ships.) I honestly think the sameness would go away with some new blood. I don't know this side of it, but I would venture a guess that more fresh players would cost more fresh money, and the handfuls that are there now are already bought and paid for, so no new faces are likely to be forthcoming. And since we are not privy to such things who has been approached (if anybody) for new samples will remain speculation. To the topic of the thread, without a clear working definition of what AI actually is, BIAB is or isn't AI. If I go to a web page that draws AI faces, I can designate skin color, hair color, eye color, and gender, and the software spits out a person that does not exist. If I go to BIAB (RB in my case), I can tell it key, chord progression, tempo and style and it spits out a song that previously didn't exist. I don't see why one is considered AI and one isn't. Your coffee maker is in a sense AI. You put water in it at night, set a timer, and it makes your coffee when the timer tells it to start in the morning. That is AI in some sense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
Good ideas but how much money are you willing to pay for all of those suggestions. I can picture a range of $800 to $1000 USD for the compressed audio version. The question before that question is how much THEY are willing to pay for them. "Real" studio guys (meaning those we have actually heard of) are going to cost a lot of money to do this. I have not been around as long as many of you, but John Jarvis (now 69), Paul Franklin (also 69) and Brent Mason (now 64) have been present since I first started buying this software. I don't remember when that was, but I started writing songs for the CD that was finally done and released in 2015 way back in 2009 and those 3 names were prominent then. Jeff Lorber (now 70) is heavily present on the piano options. I honestly believe some fresh blood would give this stuff a fresh feel. As great as Mason is, everything of his sounds the same to me. When 2 or 3 names dominate an instrument category, logic says that generated parts using those 2 or 3 names will result in 2 or 3 remarkably similar outputs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,799
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,799 |
Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though. Heck if the program does all that there is no need for ME! i might as well just listen to the radio since i had very little to do with it it was all done in the "box" oh by the way Joanne Cooper already took care of number one https://lyriclab.net
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,758
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,758 |
Heck if the program does all that there is no need for ME! i might as well just listen to the radio since i had very little to do with it it was all done in the "box"
I have to gently disagree. If BiaB could do all this the user would still be able to * change the key * change the tempo * alter the chord progression * add additional instruments * delete existing instruments * change the style * alter the structure regarding verse, bridge, chorus, etc. * record one's self on chosen instrument and more. In my mind there would be no reason to remove any of the creativity/control we currently enjoy.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,936
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,936 |
Personally I would like to see as much of AI as possible implemented into BIAB,
1 Generate Lyrics based on ideas or words inputed(ChatGPT)
2 Generate a melody based on those lyrics.
3 Suggest a style or for AI to add its own instruments.
4 Have Vocaloid singers available to sing the song.
5 Have a lot of customization options so that the user can change things.
6 Still retain the existing way of creating a song in BIAB.
There will always be plenty of ways for the user to tinker around the edges, so in future the more AI in BIAB the better.
Just my opinion though. Plus one for this. There are thousands of people out there, of all ages, who just want a song for their loved one on their anniversary or their daughter on their 21st or their dog. Band-in-a-box is a great tool for those who are patient enough to learn it but unless PG music moves quickly they will miss the opportunity to introduce their magnificent tool to these people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7,268
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7,268 |
Joanne,
No disrespect, but I think you are severely misjudging the strata of folks you are talking about.
Those:
"who just want a song for their loved one on their anniversary or their daughter on their 21st or their dog."
Are unlikely people to spend $200-$600+ on a software to "write" (if you can call that writing) something occasional for the causes you mentioned. What I think LIKELY would happen is that they will use some kind of a free online (AI assisted) service or $2-$20 a pop AI created tune. Or subscribe to such online service(s). Like advanced "Hallmark" postcard store.
Fortunately BIAB, for the most part is not about that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,936
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,936 |
Rusty. I believe that everyone can benefit from the beauty and creativity of making music. It has always been so hard. But with AI and great tools like BIAB it does not need to be. Not to mention snobbery that often puts people off even trying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7,268
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7,268 |
"beauty and creativity of making music..."
Right.. so lets see here... Program writes music, lyrics and sings for you. And what again you are "making" here? What is your "story", your "feelings", "you" in it?
Is that what you call "making music" ?
People do enjoy nice postcards and sometimes can tastefully pick the one that looks good and that would even have a few nice "meaningful" words written. Nothing wrong with that. But to me, AI written music is not me "making music" or me trying to be "creative".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,758
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,758 |
If I could broaden this dicussion a bit it may be useful.
In my opinion, AI is going to partially, if not completely replace many workers, companies and complete sectors in our modern society. It doesn't matter if a particular entity does not want to be replaced. If the "competition" sees a way to do things cheaper, better or faster, then likely that will happen. In my view, those that adopt, embrace and innovate with AI will do better than those that don't.
One pundit has stated that AI will be as important to humankind as the wheel!
FWI, when I ask my AI assistant what sectors are likely to be replaced by AI, this was it's response (which may or may not fully come to pass):
AI is likely to replace jobs in various sectors, including:
* Tech jobs (Coders, computer programmers, software engineers, data analysts)
* Media jobs (advertising, content creation, technical writing, journalism)
* Legal industry jobs (paralegals, legal assistants)
* Market research analysts
* Teachers
* Finance jobs (Financial analysts, personal financial advisors)
* Traders
* Graphic designers
* Customer service representatives
* Receptionists
Is there anything else I can help you with?
To this list I will add weapon designers, war planners, diplomats, librarians, engineers of all kinds, medical researchers, mathematicians and more.
I'm not saying that I necessarily approve of all this, but I will say "human progress" will continue marching onward (assuming we don't destroy ourselves).
To be sure, this cuts deep personally because I happen to be in a couple of the above categories. But I also don't matter. Neither does any single individual on the planet.
"You have no choice but to operate in a world shaped by globalization and the information revolution. There are two options: adapt or die." - Andy Grove
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7,268
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7,268 |
BT, Of course AI will have an impact on industries/trades and music industry is not an exception. But are we talking about the industry here, or the other 95-99% of people who just like to tinker with music because they enjoy it? Thankfully cars didn't stop humans from walking in the past 100+ years (We do walk/move less because of cars and that unfortunately contributes to quite a few diseases.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 621
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 621 |
"beauty and creativity of making music..."
Right.. so lets see here... Program writes music, lyrics and sings for you. And what again you are "making" here? What is your "story", your "feelings", "you" in it?
Is that what you call "making music" ?
People do enjoy nice postcards and sometimes can tastefully pick the one that looks good and that would even have a few nice "meaningful" words written. Nothing wrong with that. But to me, AI written music is not me "making music" or me trying to be "creative".
AMEN! So many people are so unwilling to put real work into anything these days. Well, if that's "snobbery," then call me a snob. I can send a box of tissues to anyone who's feelings get hurt. I'm with MarioD. BIAB needs to be able to deal with time signatures properly.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until May 15, 2026. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49.
Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,239
Posts802,252
Members40,072
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean