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Re: PGMusic Demographic rockstar_not #61115 02/21/10 08:32 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	You mean the new fancy box and external hard drive packaging is 'lacking'. I don't agree at all on that point. OK so they should go black and silver and blister pack it so I have to call my kids over to open the darn thing. And make it have flashing lights and play a demo song so it goes into your ipod headphones and you hear the genre you push on the package. My grandson has a thing he sits in that's like that. Plays farmer music when you touch the farm and other neat stuff. Classical and folk tunes. I really disagree on this point. They haven't put the box with the hard drive in the stores I guess. Is success in marketing to younger people the fact that it's over top of the Yamaha keyboards at WallMart? John Conley Musica est vita

Re: PGMusic Demographic John Conley #61116 02/21/10 09:14 AM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,457 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,457 Mi., USA	Using semantics, you may be right, rockstar. I meant there IS a market there, but you may be correct that PGMusic isn't pursuing it. I use MIDI in PGMusic products quite a bit, and 90% not GM. The fact that it is set up to be GM compatible doesn't mean it has to be used that way. It just makes for an easier set up initially to get going. It's no more restrictive than a thousand dollar synth that happens to have a GM bank in it. Not sure why you assume we are all using only GM setups. I've read that from you quite a few times. With the patchlist feature I am able to call up thousands of sounds right from inside the tracks window.. makes it kinda nice. Without the GM structure, the whole BiaB system would be much less powerful, maybe your comments are aimed more at the BiaB users. Sure seem to be a lot of people enjoying it, and writing great songs with it. RB does most of what the other DAWs do, and a few very unique things too. Still my preferred DAW at this point. I'd rather have the realtracks than the VSTi tempo if it has to be a tradeoff. Sure would be nice to have both though. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: PGMusic Demographic rharv #61117 02/21/10 09:31 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,900 A corner of Vienna, Austria, t... WienSam Veteran
WienSam Veteran Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,900 A corner of Vienna, Austria, t...	Bob, will you please STOP changing your Avatar! It is unnerving, to say the least. I don't know you in person but I know you here on the forum. To change your Avatar is to change your whole persona. Or would you like me to turn blue? Bluish? Grow pointed ears? NOI Yes. I am one of the Knights who say 'NOI' Ha ha! Did it! I turned blue! So, see what I mean, Bob? Disconcerting, isn't it? What will Trax turn into next?? Last edited by WienSam; 02/21/10 09:59 AM. Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what

Re: PGMusic Demographic Pat Marr #61118 02/21/10 09:37 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,449 Ann Arbor, MI filkertom Veteran
filkertom Veteran Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,449 Ann Arbor, MI	Tom Smith Age: 49 Pretty much anything, although my own stuff comes down to comedy folk-rock and ballads BIAB a whole lot, RB almost not at all, lots of extra work with Acid Pro and some with Reaper Best, Tom Smith Win10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2026 • Reaper 7.57 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro

Re: PGMusic Demographic filkertom #61119 02/21/10 09:57 AM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,457 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,457 Mi., USA	Sam, I haven't changed my avatar in years, and the knights say 'ni' http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=117&qid=1450 I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: PGMusic Demographic rharv #61120 02/21/10 10:01 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,900 A corner of Vienna, Austria, t... WienSam Veteran
WienSam Veteran Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,900 A corner of Vienna, Austria, t...	Liar! Ni ni ni ni ni!!!! Note to self: Can I get myself back here again or have I been taken over by an Avatar?? Last edited by WienSam; 02/21/10 10:05 AM. Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what

Re: PGMusic Demographic WienSam #61121 02/21/10 10:34 AM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 1,992 Canada M manning1 Expert
manning1 Expert M Joined: May 2005 Posts: 1,992 Canada	rockstar. allow me to explain. re youngsters. interestingly enough i was defending the young uns this week.. cos we were all youngsters once. but over the past few years ive heard the same common points made by people in the work force grappling with manageing young uns in their first job. viz..at school none is allowed to fail. and the generation in general terms at school has always been used to constant positive reinforcement. then they get their first job and its often a culture shock sadly for many. because they dont often get the constant positive reinforcement they are used to all the time at school/home. which many seem to need. often the complaint i hear also is they want to join an employer one week and expect to be in senior mgt within a short time thereafter. i'm just relaying what ive been told many times. in summary they are used to getting things fast and when the reality of real life with all its problems occurs, many get rapidly frustrated. so dont get me wrong..i'm just relaying what ive been told many times. mebe its unrealistic expectations that are built up at the school level. re expectations for quick success. fair comment ?? retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE ! "what is the black art of audio engineering ?" my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning see my tips in the tips section.

Re: PGMusic Demographic manning1 #61122 02/21/10 10:44 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	I am being repressed! We are the knights who say nicht...we are the keepers of the sacred words, nicht, pang, and neuwong! If I only had two points to make to you it would be an umm-lout. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: PGMusic Demographic John Conley #61123 02/21/10 11:38 AM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,457 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,457 Mi., USA	Yer giving me di·er·e·sis For that- You must bring me a shrubbery I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: PGMusic Demographic WienSam #61124 02/21/10 12:06 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,251 WV, USA bobcflatpicker Veteran
bobcflatpicker Veteran Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,251 WV, USA	Okay Sam, that was funny. Bob Bob ................................ http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

Re: PGMusic Demographic rharv #61125 02/21/10 12:10 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,251 WV, USA bobcflatpicker Veteran
bobcflatpicker Veteran Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,251 WV, USA	rharv, I hadn't seen that clip in years. Thanks for the good laugh. Bob Bob ................................ http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

Re: PGMusic Demographic John Conley #61126 02/21/10 12:53 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA R rockstar_not Veteran
rockstar_not Veteran R Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,913 Colorado Springs, CO, USA	Quote: You mean the new fancy box and external hard drive packaging is 'lacking'. I don't agree at all on that point. OK so they should go black and silver and blister pack it so I have to call my kids over to open the darn thing. And make it have flashing lights and play a demo song so it goes into your ipod headphones and you hear the genre you push on the package. My grandson has a thing he sits in that's like that. Plays farmer music when you touch the farm and other neat stuff. Classical and folk tunes. I really disagree on this point. They haven't put the box with the hard drive in the stores I guess. Is success in marketing to younger people the fact that it's over top of the Yamaha keyboards at WallMart? John, This reply to my post - if it is not one of your tongue-in-cheek replies is clear evidence that you really don't have any idea what I am talking about. The demographic I'm talking about does not buy very much at Wal-Mart. I'm talking the graphic design of both the advertisement as well as the website and GUI in the program. You are on about the black/silver - that much I think you picked up. Do you read any of the industry magazines on home recording? If so, take a look at other DAW advertisements and contrast them with PG adverts. Same price paid for the advertisement itself. But one looks like it was done with Microsoft Word 'Word Art', and the others look like professionals put them together. @Bob, The point about GM is all over the forums (how many times do people have to ask about Forte DXi, or VSC, or SD, or the other GM flavor of the day and why my drums aren't showing up on channel 10?) You don't see any questions here asking about how to program the synths in Reaktor (well, Ryszard has dabbled, but most are doing very typical drums/guitars/piano/organ/horns backing), how to automate filters or what's the best way to get stutter effects on synth pads, etc. Here the questions seem very focused on how to get standard songs to sound good for one-man-bands and the like. WAY more topics here like that than other forums. I mean really, just go to any of the other forums related to particular DAWs and you just won't find questions about GM. I agree that setting the program up for GM doesn't limit (well, it does in that it takes up unnecessary real-estate on the mixer applet - like for the chorus/reverb midi knobs) but unless you've played with other programs and haunted other forums, it may not be so apparent as to the general lack of targeting a younger market. -Scott It's been a very long time since I heard a full-on synth only tune here at PG, where everything is midi, and none of it is GM. My Songs, photos, writing,etc. My Sound Cloud

Re: PGMusic Demographic rockstar_not #61127 02/21/10 01:15 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,457 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,457 Mi., USA	Yeah, this demographic survey will tell ya you are not going to hear a lot of full-on synth stuff. Some of us know how to program synths and call up other patches and use many other features of MIDI, and I think most regulars here do know MIDI pretty well.. We don't ask questions because we pretty much got a handle on it. Most of the questions in a forum such as this are from noobies, as it should be. I do hang out in other forums where guys do a lot more synth stuff. Can't say I enjoy it more though, the full-on synth stuff got old a while ago for me. I like using them where I think they'll fit, but other instruments still suit my style much better. It may be that PGMusic is focused exactly on their niche market. Since BiaB is their flagship product. I don't use it much myself, however I do think BiaB could be a great aid for those starting out, which is what I believe it was meant to be from the beginning (hence the name). They keep it easy to set up and get going and let people do a lot with what they offer. And it can teach you a lot. I was just saying, it's how you use the tools that matter, and for me RB can hang pretty well with a lot of them for what I do. Including MIDI. I don't think you really appreciate what stuff like Realtracks and the ACW can do. If a user puts as much time into Realtracks as they would with loops, the realtracks can be quite impressive. Depends what you are after I guess. All the DAWs have their plus/minuses. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: PGMusic Demographic rockstar_not #61128 02/21/10 01:55 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,251 WV, USA bobcflatpicker Veteran
bobcflatpicker Veteran Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,251 WV, USA	Scott, Quote: Do you read any of the industry magazines on home recording? If so, take a look at other DAW advertisements and contrast them with PG adverts. Same price paid for the advertisement itself. But one looks like it was done with Microsoft Word 'Word Art', and the others look like professionals put them together. I have to agree with you 100%. To say the web design and graphics of PG is "dated" is being kind. It will definitely not appeal to younger people. For me, BIAB has always been nothing more than a practice tool so I can play or sing along and "keep my chops up". I will let BIAB take at least one solo so I can run through the chord progression. I play, (or played), a lot of instrumentals so it is good for that. It's also great if you have friends or family over and they ask you to play and you are the only musician there. Then they can have that "full band" sound. I've never gotten into the full functions of BIAB because it was and is still just a practice tool. Don't take me wrong, I love it and recommend it to anyone who plays because of what it can do. But it will not appeal to a younger group. Hiring professional web design people and having better tutorials would definitely help. And for bluegrass players, getting at least ONE decent style that understands the genre would help a lot. For the umpteenth time, the melodies are 8th swing notes, not 16th. Even the styles that are listed as 8th swing are actually 16th's. Sucks really hard. And believe it or not, there are a lot of young people playing bluegrass or newgrass. Not to mention us old folks. Bob Bob ................................ http://soundcloud.com/bobcflatpicke/music-in-the-mountains

Re: PGMusic Demographic John Conley #61129 02/23/10 12:33 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 484 R RickeG Journeyman
RickeG Journeyman R Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 484	John, That's funny you mention the niche of BIAB in schools. As a private instructor, I have been exposing my progressive knowledge on using BIAB to my guitar & piano students. I use it as a technique for them to think outside of the box (pardon the pun) of their own instrumental world; especially guitarists. I know, from being one, I have a tendency to forget that there are other people playing too and would also like to solo as well! Hmm, what to do while they are soloing? The extra nice feature of this product over something like JAMMER is that it offers the notation of the songs as they are created. Speaking of tutorials, the best thing I found for teaching the students (and future BIAB customers) is to take a familiar chord pattern and change different styles to it. This way, you have the same chords and then allow for the style to create its own mods and capture what changes took place in the chart. I gotta think of something new for a couple of my students. They already have done recording sessions, writing their own 2 part guitar harmony songs and recording them. So, I am ecstatic for what BIAB brings to the music education front. I have not dove into the practice Jazz tunes for them yet. I am still trying to learn them. Hence, my naive jazz posts! Sorry for another shameless plug for BIAB. Thanks RickeG

Re: PGMusic Demographic RickeG #61130 02/23/10 02:18 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,691 Pawling New York R Rob Helms Veteran
Rob Helms Veteran R Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 8,691 Pawling New York	Wow interesting post, that is up till Bob And Sam starting needing a playdate. 52 years young, been playing since i was 15. You think i would learn something one day, sheeesh! Love Old time rock, country and folk. Use BiaB for song beds, RB and Multitrackstudios to finish and master. HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96

Re: PGMusic Demographic rockstar_not #61131 02/25/10 05:14 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,926 Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA Ryszard Veteran
Ryszard Veteran Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,926 Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA	Quote: It's been a very long time since I heard a full-on synth only tune here at PG, where everything is midi, and none of it is GM. -Scott "Dance of the Techno Gods" Click on my avatar upper right to go to my profile page and see more music. Signed, "The Dabbler" P.S.: Fifty-seven years old. I use BIAB as a sequencer and co-composer. Look for more full-on electronica. "My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

Re: PGMusic Demographic Ryszard #61132 02/25/10 09:01 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 583 J J. Larry Journeyman
J. Larry Journeyman J Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 583	Retired university professor, age 67. Been with BIAB since its earliest days. Don't tinker with the program except to gig live. Never used Real Band, since BIAB does it for me. Played in bands since the 1960's. Working solo now 5 nights a week in a private club. Play everything from the early 1900's through the '70's. I use BIAB, along with guitar some nights, and other nights on Yamaha arranger keyboard. By the way, this forum has really been helpful over the years.

Re: PGMusic Demographic J. Larry #61133 02/25/10 11:31 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 29 Austin, Texas Steve G Enthusiast
Steve G Enthusiast Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 29 Austin, Texas	Steve Graham Age 60 I write songs (words and music) with my guitar then use Real Band to create arrangements by entering the chords and selecting Real Instruments, etc. and then record the vocals on top of the whole deal in Real Band. Real Band is the perfect tool for what I do. DadgumSongs from Austin, Texas stevenpgraham.com

Re: PGMusic Demographic Steve G #61134 02/25/10 07:52 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 716 Scotland alan S. Journeyman
alan S. Journeyman Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 716 Scotland	28 years going on 14 according to some folks here at any rate..lol. I'm maybe atypical of the younger generation inasmuch as I'm into mostly acoustic 'jazz' based music; not the 'nu-jazz' or electronica that's supposed to appeal to my age group. So that qualifies me as a 'young fogey' perhaps! I use the term jazz with caution; I like to improvise in a jazz influenced way but not necessarily over standard jazz forms and structures. I'd call it 'free' jazz except that's misleading. It more jazz influenced by various folk and modern classical elements with a lot of odd time signatures or else non-metric 'pulses'. That creates problems for me when I try to use BIAB styles and chords for arranging and composing original material as there's so few styles that are usable straight out of the box for me. BIAB's idea of jazz tends to be dominated by mainstream traditional genres or else commercial smooth jazz so i find as much interest in adapting funk and rock patterns for my own use as anything strictly jazz. i usually have to make lot of adaptations to existing styles by importing custom patterns, using lots of shots and holds, hybrids with other styles, altering the chord voicings, breaking up the bar structure and using lots of fills to create 'broken-time' feels ...its hard work. Lets face it.. a bunch of style disks covering the evolution of post-Ornette Coleman 'free' jazz from 1960- right through to today's mixed- genre 'creative/experimental' jazz scene isn't going to happen ...as much as i'd love it to. All I can hope is that a future BIAB will some day give me more options for customising the programs functins so that making my adaptations is less arduous than it is just now. Regards Alan

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