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I'm not sure where I sit. I suppose there are more questions than answers.
Would Frank approve? If yes, then what's the problem? If no, then that's another story altogether.
Was AI involved, and if so, well, does AI deserve a 'pat on the back' for its remarkable ability to imitate Ol' Blue Eyes??
The bottom line: As we move deeper, beware of what you see (and hear )
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Neither of those guys were deities. It's just a song. "Disrespectful?" Get over it. If you don't like it, don't listen. Some problems really do have simple solutions.
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
Can someone fill in the blanks for me please. This sounds like a Sinatra song with a Nelson Riddle big band arrangement but I don’t know the song melody or the words. So I assume the lyrics are by someone named Cobain. I think I’ve heard of him. Kurt? Then the real words of the song I don’t know were replaced by AI?
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Whether I listen or not listen, does not have anything to do with this. Nor is that a solution to anything. It appears that folks here do not know what respectful and disrespectful even mean.
Whether I listen or not listen, does not have anything to do with this. Nor is that a solution to anything. It appears that folks here do not know what respectful and disrespectful even mean.
Can someone fill in the blanks for me please. This sounds like a Sinatra song with a Nelson Riddle big band arrangement but I don’t know the song melody or the words. So I assume the lyrics are by someone named Cobain. I think I’ve heard of him. Kurt? Then the real words of the song I don’t know were replaced by AI?
Correct. The song is Smells Like Teen Spirit, which was a huge hit for Nirvana, Kurt Cobain's band.
Someone arranged it in the style a Nelson Riddle, big-band arrangement. That's a feat in itself. I'm guessing they build the arrangement from samples of actual Frank Sinatra songs and sounds from sample libraries. With programs like Spleeter, it's possible to disassemble songs into parts (bass/drum/vocal/keys/other). Using pitch and time shifting, it's possible to re-assemble these parts into a reasonably good pastiche of a new song.
They then sang the song in the style of Frank Sinatra, and used RVC (Retrieval Based Voice Conversion) replace the timbre of their voice with Frank Sinatra's.
Edit: After some research, it looks like the material was lifted from Paul Anka's version of the song, and it's likely Paul Anka's voice was used as well.
RVC is a neural network-based tool that, when given audio input, identifies the phonemes of the input and stores that data. It can then change the timbre of any voice to the trained target. It only changes the timbre of the voice, so for the illusion to work well, the source voice should have the same style, inflection, and general performance attributes of the target.
Last edited by dcuny; 11/16/2304:07 PM. Reason: Found the Paul Anka big band cover of "Smells Like Teen Spirit"
Thanks David for the update and clarification. I was aware that it was Cobain's song, but certainly not aware of some of the technology available to create the cover.
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I’m more disturbed that someone could reconstruct a big band. I would think copying the arranging style of Nelson Riddle is much more difficult than faking the voice. So, the song itself with different lyrics does not exist sung by Frank Sinatra?
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I’m more disturbed that someone could reconstruct a big band. I would think copying the arranging style of Nelson Riddle is much more difficult than faking the voice. So, the song itself with different lyrics does not exist sung by Frank Sinatra?
Yeah, that was my thought as well, but I was in a hurry to get somewhere when I made the post.
Which I should have known (or at least taken a moment to check), because I'm pretty sure have that CD... somewhere.
Or I could have paid more attention when I opened up the details on the YouTube post, since it had the CD displayed there (although they didn't say they had used it).
Using Spleeter to split off the vocals and backing tracks is a trivial drag-and-drop operation if you've got the Windows GUI version.
From there, it's just a matter of taking Paul Anka's vocal through an RVC trained on Frank Sinatra's voice. If there's no existing RVC model of Frank Sinatra handy, you can again use Spleeter to isolate vocals from Frank Sinatra songs and train an instance of RVC yourself.
Yes, that is making more sense. All this business about un-baking the cake is new to me. I did know about Spleeter and derivatives, but I didn't think they had progressed so far.
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I did know about Spleeter and derivatives, but I didn't think they had progressed so far.
Spleeter is especially good if you want to listen to an album without the vocals.
The old method of vocal removal relied on removing the centered audio. It would invert the left channel and sum it with the right channel. Unfortunately, it would also remove anything else that was centered.
Being able to pull out the vocals is really useful for someone like me who's trying to mix tracks.
The isolated vocals makes it easier to hear what sort of doubling and background vocals there are, and how they are balanced.
Isolated backing tracks means getting a better feel for how the instrumentation. Plus, I can finally hear all those lovely instruments that are buried in the mix!
I am afraid there is nothing that can be done to stop this. Too many folks with too much time on their hands and nothing better to do. Plus, notice how the "ads" have jumped on this stuff.
But surprizingly I find this less objectionable. First, it really doesn't sound like Frank in this higher register and second, I like this song much better than Smells like teen spirit.
I’m more disturbed that someone could reconstruct a big band.
If that is true, then everything ever posted in the User Showcase should offend you, as people are "reconstructing" bands to back them. "Reconstructing" bands is exactly what this software is intended to do. There are styles that specifically state "Big Band", which I know because I used it to do "As Long As You're Gone."
I actually wish I knew somebody who did this deep fake process because the aforementioned song was made in the style of Sinatra, as well as my song "I Hope Somebody Cries" was done to channel my inner Johnny Cash. I would love to hear those songs sung by the artists I had in mind when I wrote them.
This AI technology is actually an opportunity for musicians with no band to have one. Isn't that exactly what PG music says when they market their product? The vocals in the AI deep fakes are astoundingly accurate and the nerd side of me absolutely loves it. The Fairlight CMI had the technology to sample vocal characteristics and sing lyrics you typed in with that voice. It was rarely used to my knowledge but I once booked an hour of studio time just to get a demo of the Fairlight and saw it used. (The guy ended up not charging me for the hour. He was actually proud of the flex opportunity to say "I have a Fairlight.")
As to the "disrespectful" aspect.... please. Respect is earned. I OWE nobody respect and nobody owes it to me.
And to take that "faking it" aspect one step further, you could also say that every band in the 60s and 70s was faking it by using The Wrecking Crew, which you could also say was the humanized version of what we now call AI generated music. Was The Wrecking Crew disrespecting the musicians they replaced on every song recorded over 25 years, which not by word but by deed implied "We are better than you. You all suck."? How do you think Peter Tork felt when he showed up with his bass to record and they told him "We don't need you today. We got this covered. You can just go home. We got it."
"Disrespect" is a nonsense word like "empower". Empowered implies that you need permission to do something. I am empowered to do anything I want to do. "We are going to empower children to learn about this." whatever "this" is. They are already "empowered" to learn it. They just don't do it.
So, disrespectful to Sinatra? No.
I guess David Seville was disrespectful to chipmunks! LOL!!!
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