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"But you would really have to be blind not to imagine that we are necessarily going to simplify the whole thing."
Consider me blind. I see all previous pickers as absolutely unneeded complexity that will confuse most users, especially new ones and is a feature creep clutter. And not a hint from developers that these will be retired.
P.S. MoultiPass, I am not sure if you had been reading any external posts (outside PG music forum) by people that had tried BIAB. I've put in a lot of hours just reading these posts over last 5 years, of folks with very different needs/uses of the program. One of the top issues people voice is clutter and complexity.
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Expert
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The reason we took the trouble to learn Biab is because there is a little something magical about this program that no other has. The criticisms about the outdated graphics and the famous learning curve are true, but don't stop me from using it every day.
So what? Destroy everything and redo a version from scratch? Are we really trying to attract more people (make more money) by satisfying fans of modern design? As the Beatles said, it's just a group of friends having a good time. I remain in this artisanal spirit, but I know that one day everything will change, perhaps for the better.
We understand of course all these people who suffer to get the nectar out of Biab, and the criticisms are at the level. I don't read them anymore, they all say the same thing, an old program for old people who are afraid of change. I don't pay attention to it anymore. The major advances of recent years suggest new possibilities.
Biab Audiophile 2025 11.28 Win
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MoultiPass,
Sure, trade your car/bus for a horse, throw away your cell phone and get a rotary dial one or just carry one with you in case you "might need it". Computers, who needs them? Calculator will do just fine! Should I go on?
Destroy everything? This is not what I am saying. I am saying it is a good time and opportunity to get rid of redundant features that have no functional value. "Modern design" has nothing to do with my request. That is another topic. I don't think it is good for a software to have a paperweight features that do nothing more but add clutter and invite more bugs and other issues. I don't see anything good or positive in that philosophy.
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MoultiPass,
Sure, trade your car/bus for a horse, throw away your cell phone and get a rotary dial one or just carry one with you in case you "might need it". Computers, who needs them? Calculator will do just fine! Should I go on?
... Which report ? I leave you this thread, I said what I had to say. THANKS.
Biab Audiophile 2025 11.28 Win
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There are still some things that need sorting: When I first start the MultiPicker it takes 30 secs to open. I can't see a rebuild button in the RealTracks it seems to use the Style rebuild that takes ages even if set on "Quick". How many times do you put this off until you are force to run it: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26704&filename=BB24-Style-Rebuild.png) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26705&filename=VST6-Style-Rebuild.png) Then after waiting 30sec you choose the Drum tab and you have to wait again: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26706&filename=BB24-Multi-Drum-Picker-Lag.png)
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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I vote to remove the old picker since new one has designed to work better.
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1113, MegaPaK
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Rustyspoon#
You have had your say, now leave it alone and let the people who know the situation, (Dr Gannon and the programmers) work out the best approach and timing, do their thing, please.
Keith
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I think it's a Ctrl+T scenario, once users get used to the new way they don't use the old anymore, but each one to his own time, they can't be pushed if not ready. I remember suggesting a multipicker years n years n years ago then Rusty also suggested this, this is a good step. I keep an old exe of different versions for support. Look at the new Tracks view, so many didn't want it to become a "DAW" but with all those Util tracks and the Track window that horse has bolted, it's a great improvement appreciated by so many users. The thing is you can still just use Audio Edit and the Piano Roll and hide the extra UTil tracks and Tracks window. Things have to move ahead, look at the BiabVST now in Reaper, instantaneous !! I had to show that working for ages with so much code, pics and videos with like near zero interest or support from most maybe due to not understanding ??? and saying that most users have old computers with old hardware so Biab has to be limited and can not progress because of this, but you can see plainly now it working in action in the BiabVST (there is still more to do like playing the track data direct in the BiabVST (so other DAWs can enjoy the speed) and have all the code in the VST that I will most likely have to now do also to show that working  as there still seems to be some resistance to that. ), you can see Riff Edit now in the Tracks window giving way more control the same as I showed in Reaper with the RT/RD sections. So much of this stuff that is now implemented I showed years n years n years ago, so it is still way behind of where it could of been by now 
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Dear Keith,
That is nice that you are trying to be a "moderator", but kindly don't try to silence me. If you are against my wish / request, say exactly why. So if this is considered by Peter and his crew (one way or another) they will at least know the true reasons why some people want to keep redundant features.
and make necessary adjustments if they feel it is important enough to justify. That is the point of this thread, to have a discussion.
So far I have read 2 valid reasons:
One by Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
And what, if I am thinking this right, Musocity and also Mario is trying to say, is for people to get used to it.
You are welcome to present your view, or if I missed something besides the two above from this thread that are worth considering.
--------------------------------------------
Musocity, new MTP library takes less than 3 seconds to open for me. Switching tabs less then 2. Something is not right in your setup....
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I like it as they are not hassling me LOL I remember some not wanting you in Beta because "you would want to change things" after I suggested you should be added to beta testing because of your knowledge. This is first run: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26712&filename=BB24-Start-Multipicker-First-Run.gif) This is once running: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26713&filename=BB24-Start-Multipicker-Once-Running.gif)
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Something is not right with your setup...
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 12/26/23 10:06 PM.
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Dear Keith,
That is nice that you are trying to be a "moderator", but kindly don't try to silence me. If you are against my wish / request, say exactly why. So if this is considered by Peter and his crew (one way or another) they will at least know the true reasons why some people want to keep redundant features.
and make necessary adjustments if they feel it is important enough to justify. That is the point of this thread, to have a discussion.
So far I have read 2 valid reasons:
One by Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
And what, if I am thinking this right, Musocity and also Mario is trying to say, is for people to get used to it.
You are welcome to present your view, or if I missed something besides the two above from this thread that are worth considering.
--------------------------------------------
Musocity, new MTP library takes less than 3 seconds to open for me. Switching tabs less then 2. Something is not right in your setup.... My vote was/is leave it alone until the bugs are worked out then remove the unneeded dialogs. Leave them for now because removing them prematurely may make it difficult/impossible to do certain things. But ultimately, Misha is absolutely right; when you improve things you should not leave the old things in place!
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Misha, I originally was against removing the old pickers. After using the multipicker for a couple of weeks I am changing my opinion. I agree that the old pickers should be removed.
See you can teach an old dog new tricks!
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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To summarize, so far 3 specific reasons were mentioned against removing older pickers for now:
1) Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
2)What, if I am thinking this right, Musocity meant, is for people to get used to it.
3) And by JJJ (which I also agree on)-leave it alone until the bugs are worked out then remove the unneeded dialogs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Best case scenario, if considered by PGM, this could be done in a few months until they iron out reported bugs with MTP Library. My realistic hope that it will be done in 2025 version, by the end of 2024.
I encourage anyone who will post / or cast a vote in this thread "against", please provide specific reasons why, even if they are repeats of the three mentioned above.
Thank you.
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Something is not right with your setup... What time does yours take when you first start Biab compared to already running ? (see my pics above) Have you got the RealTrack/Drums on C:\ or external USB 3 hard drive ? What version are you using (amount of RT/RDs) ? I have the USB 3 Audiophile and on first run it's taking all that time reading the Audiophile drive as it's light is flashing. It should not have to read the folders if it has already been rebuilt and has a text database.
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This is from USB spinner drive that Audiophile came with. Maybe start a thread/poll in BIAB Windows, see what others are experiencing? Mine is fast...
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Journeyman
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Mine is also very fast 1-2 seconds.
Same test as above.
BIAB is on an internal SSD drive same as C: but separate partition.
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There is a time difference between initial open and next open due to it being loaded in memory.
There's also a huge difference if you're loading from a slower supplied hard disk or from a much faster M2 disk.
I have not benchmarked this against older pickers in the same scenario first time or on a slow disk.
By 100% agree with the OP that old methods to do the same thing should be removed. That's the definition of Bloat.
I also realized that there's a few minor tweaks to the multi picker to make it a little smoother in terms of Workflow and I'm beginning to adopt a new thought about this.
So based off of where the library is sitting and A couple of workflow scenarios there is arguments to keep both methods.
I use a method that matches with my workflow and thus totally avoid all redundancy. The custom toolbar.
In order to Sideline this debate for another day I'm beginning to believe that a very simple and quick solution that PGM could do would be to supply startup templates that match the user's needs.
NEXT PATCH RELEASE
1) Fill out the custom With the F7 multi picker which by the way is a toggle and the Track View, which is also a toggle with the Chord view, this gives an entry level person 90% of what they need.
Before they disappear and go into hibernation for the Mac version:
2) When speed and a few minor improvements to the F7 are ready then either remove or make it extremely hard to find the other pickers.
Last edited by jpettit; 12/30/23 01:20 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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MULTI PICKER LIBRARY IIMPROVEMENTS:
EASY:
1) A set of options for the multi picker
- Auto fill time signature, feel, tempo range so every time you open it up it matches your current style. (New to 2024 is the actual style options in the filters)
- Just like the DAW mode button which greatly changes the behavior and required a RED FLAG, to let you know that you are in DAW (stay on top) mode, The option to use the existing chord chart which is currently buried under the options is way too dangerous if you inadvertently are on the wrong track or don't realize that you're wiping out entire styles or entire tracks with it on. There should be a RED FLAG somewhere on the multi picker that lets you in this mode versus demo from the Internet mode perhaps just a small red button that toggles. It needs to be extremely convenient and obvious.
MORE WORK:
The multi-picker should have a background thread that loads it into memory, so the initial opening is instantaneous.
Last edited by jpettit; 12/30/23 01:34 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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The Style Picker Rebuild to Rebuild RealTracks takes 100 secs on Fast. So I added a Rebuild button in the RT picker and now it's fast again ! ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26787&filename=BB24-MultiPicker-RT-Rebuild.gif)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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