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České a Slovenské Band-in-a-Box uživatelské fórum
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JaBr Offline OP
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Vie mi niekto poradiť ako v BIaB riešiť čo najjednoduchšie ak mám skladbu zloženú z viac častí trebarz sloha (A) ktorá je zložená z dvoch harmonicky rôznych častí (A1 a A2), refrén (B), sólo (C) s iným počtom taktov ako sloha, alebo iba čast A1 slohy a pod. A v skladbe sa nepravideľne opakuje sloha, rf a sólo. Ako to riešiť aby sa nemusela písať celá skladba od začiatku po koniec každý takt ?
Dik.

Last edited by JaBr; 12/10/23 11:15 AM.
České a Slovenské Band-in-a-Box uživatelské fórum
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DonCarlos
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Nu na první dobrou mi ChatPG dal tuto odpověď:

Ano, je možné definovat vlastní formu skladby typu AABA. V programu Band-in-a-Box je možné nastavit vlastní sekce skladby a přiřadit jim počet taktů. V kapitole 5 "Playing Songs" je popsáno, jak definovat vlastní sekce skladby a jak k nim přistupovat během přehrávání.

Já jsem to našel v kapitole 6 pod tématem "Rearrange Chords - Song Form Maker" stručně je to tak:
- V nástorové listě je ikona AABA viz obrazek 1
- Kliknutím na ní se dostaneš to submenu s volbami:
- Song Form Dialog,
- Generate INTRO a
- Repetice a 1. a 2. volta

Vše je detailně popsáno v té kapilole 6. viz: Kapitola 6 https://www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2023full/chapter6.htm a tam ideálně dohledat přes [CTRL-F] vyhledáním zkratky AABA nebo přímo názvu kapitoly "Rearrange Chords - Song Form Maker"

Pod stejným dialogem najdeš i to jak udělat repetice a ostatní věci jako Prima a Sekunda Voltu

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Karel Jacko alias Don Carlos - Czech Republic Dealer PG Music, Inc
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- Roland GK-3 Divided Pickup (Guitar and Bass); Roland GR-20 Guitar Synth;
- MOTU UltraLite mk3 (Firewire); Fishman Tripleplay
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JaBr Offline OP
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Dík.
Ale tu som narazil na jeden problém neprehľadnosti a zaujímalo by ma či sa to dá riešiť aj nejak prehľadnejšie.
Ako riešiť v BIaB napríklad opakovanie rovnakých úsekov v nejakej časti. AABB rieši iba vygenerovanie finálnej skladby ak si nadefinujem časti, ale problém je v tom, že sa javí, že to za určitých okolností vygeneruje v konečnom dôsledku milión taktov. A to nechcem.

Takže napríklad: Mám A part v ktorom je 4 taktový A1 part a k nemu nejaký harmonicky iný 4 taktový A2 part. Potom je B part tak isto zložený z 4 taktového B1 a harmonicky iného 4 taktového B2 partu. Všetko sa opakuje - A1-4x, A2-4x + B1-2x, B2-2x + A1, A2. A to celé potrebujem opakovať 3x dokola, pričom je v každom je nejaký iný nástroj naviac. + samozrejme intro a záver momentálne nepodstatné.
Teraz ako to riešiť aby som nemusel písať, alebo mal na obrazovke milión taktov. Ak to dám AABB tak mi vygeneruje niekoľko obrazoviek taktov s akordmi.
A potom problém vidím aj ak to riešim opakovacím znamienkom, kde síce je na obrazovke podstatne menej taktov, ale ak dám opakovať part A1 4x, ktorý začína na takte 1 a končí na takte 4 , A2 časť začína na obrazovke nelogicky nie od taktu 5, ale 17 (4x4+1). Niečo podobné dole na obrázku v inej skladbe 11 a 23. A to je podľa mňa zas guláš v zápise a orientácii. On vlastne vygeneruje ten midi slíž ako to hrá bez ohľadu na logický zápis v osnove a s tým pracuje žiaľ aj na obrazovke čo do čísiel taktov a to je podľa mňa zavádzajúce. Nie je to ako napríklad aj v GTP kde máš na obrazovke logickú osnovu a v pozadí si beží midi vygenerované z nej.
Dá sa to všetko riešiť aj nejak prehľadnejšie ? Nemám BIaB ešte tak prepátraný a som naučený na systém notového papiera, Sibelius, alebo napríklad GTP. Nerád pracujem s miliónom taktov a ak úž číslami taktov tak nie chaotickými, ak to v skutočnosti je pár logických taktov v notovej osnove. Tam ťa nezaujíma a neriešiš či máš v osnove 8 taktov od 1 po 8 s opakovačkou ale v skutočnosti ti hrá 16 ktorých číslo ťa nemusí trápiť.

Asi mám veľké nároky :-) To AABB som si predstavoval trocha inak. Niečo v duchu, že si zadefinuješ časť A, B, C, D,.... a potom mu povieš v akom poradí to ide v skladbe po seba alebo sa v nej opakujú. A on si to potom zoradí v pozadí a tak aj prehráva, pričom na obrazovke máš stále prehľadný svoj zápis. A nie, že on to iba vygeneruje a v podstate zaplaví obrazovku hromadou taktov. AABB je určite istá pomoc, ale .......
A to opakovcie znamienko vid obrázok. Ešte BIaB nemám ani zďaleka prepátraný, takže by mi pomohlo nájsť iné riešenie toho čo opisujem, ak existuje,

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Oproti org zápisu už aj v GTP kde je jasne takt 10, 11, 12, ... atď a nie 11 a naraz 23. A to je tu v BIaB ešte ten problém s dialog oknom kde je kus textu a prepínačov mimo. Takže definovať 4 opakovania v dialógu mi nehrozí.

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Last edited by JaBr; 12/10/23 07:09 PM.
České a Slovenské Band-in-a-Box uživatelské fórum
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DonCarlos
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DonCarlos
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Nu ale tak jak to popisuješ tak, to v té funkci pod ikonu AABA přesně funguje a dokonce i různé druhy ENDINGU a REPETICÍ uvnitř skladby jak jsem již popsal výše. Asi by blyo dobré to vyzkoušet


Karel Jacko alias Don Carlos - Czech Republic Dealer PG Music, Inc
- +420 604 111 102, +420 602 561 567 mobil
- Band Leader Groups Jazz za Bukem and Hot Jazz Sutrs;
- BIAB 2020 Win10; BIAB 2019 MAC;
- Roland GK-3 Divided Pickup (Guitar and Bass); Roland GR-20 Guitar Synth;
- MOTU UltraLite mk3 (Firewire); Fishman Tripleplay
- MacBookPro 13 with touchbar 2018,

Wiki BIAB czech support page wiki.zabukem.eu
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JaBr Offline OP
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Asi si nerozumieme. Ale to nevadí a nerieš to. Ono to síce funguje, generuje takty podľa definície, vytvára opakovania to je fakt, ale nie tak ako si to predstavujem a hlavne nie ako to je bežné v muzikantských midi programoch kde pracuješ s notami či ako to je bežne v muzike a práce s notovou osnovou. Ono dá sa na to asi zvyknúť, ale zatiaľ ma to akurát míli čo do prehľadnosti a logiky skladby.
Pokúsim sa upresniť o čo ide. Mám skladbu kde mám part A 6 taktov a part B 6 taktov. A potrebujem „zápis“ kde sa opakuje 2xA + 2xB + 1xA. Bežne by to bolo opakovacie znamienka na takte 1 a 6, opakovacie znamienka na takte 7 a 13 plus ešte raz takt 1 až 6 od taktu 13 čo sa síce dá riešiť aj codami a dc, ale teraz pre jednoduchosť a prehľadnosť takto.
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Je tojednoduché a na obrazovke pár prehľadných taktov. BIaB ale vygeneruje s definovaním sekcii AABB z 12 taktov:
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30 taktov na obrazovke. A to nerozumiem prečo tam je definovanie od taktu počet taktov miesto podľa mňa logickejšieho od taktu po takt ako to je inde. Ale budiž.
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A ak použijem opakovania ( vzhľadom na bug v dialogovom okne môžem použiť iba jednoduché repeat 2x, ale aj tak ) síce zachová 12 taktov + 6 pridaných ručne na konci, ale pridelí im chaotické čísla, kde časť B už nezačína ako v skutočnosti od taktu 7, ale od taktu 13 čo síce sedí v midi ktoré vygeneruje, ale ktoré ma ako usera nazaujíma, a pritom nie v podstatnej osnove na obrazovke ktorou sa riadim a ako to má byť (vid prvý obrázok z GTP). A na toto si zatiaľ neviem zvyknúť. Možno časom áno, ale zatiaľ mi to je proti srsti A to nevravím o zaujímavosti, že keď opakuje pri prehrávaní tak sa často stáva, že sa kurzor prehrávania taktov stratí pri druhom opakovaní a objaví sa až na takte po opakovacej časti. To tiež nie je košer.
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Ak poznáš niečo kde mi to na obrazovke zachová to čo je v notách a v pozadí bude hrať ako má tak daj vedieť. Nemám ani zďaleka BIaB prepátraný, možno tam niekde je nejaké riešenie, ale pochybujem podľa toho čo som sa zatiaľ o ňom naučil. A to je tu príklad s pár taktami a krátkou skladbou. Ak máš dlhšiu skladbu, viac taktov a zložitejšiu štruktúru tak ťa asi môže na obrazovke vystrieť. Preto to nerieš. Je to iba faktická pripomienka :-)

PS: Už sú to 3 - 4 dni čo som PG-čom písal o tom bugu s dialog oknom a žiadna reakcia !!!!!!!!! Čakal som aspoň riešime...., alebo skúste.....
A dal som aj na BIaB win forum - Problem with the dialog window? a zatiaľ tiež bez odozvy. Je to zatiaľ iba toto jedno okno a iba v BIaB, Takže to nie je mojim nastavením videa či win verziou, ale bug v BIaB.

Last edited by JaBr; 12/12/23 06:59 AM.
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