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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326 |
Is it not time for wider support for Asio use in BB? Cubase, Sonar, Adobe Soundbooth and Ableton work wonderfully with them. Why not BB? I have a Soundblaster External and Internal XFi Elite Pro and would prefer to use Asio drivers. I try to use Asio in BB ......... crash!!!!!!! 
Mal
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
With a studio full of gear all I need is MME. ASIO works with one program at a time. If you have some keyboard and want to run asio drivers due to a softsynth and latency, then asio4all seems to be the solution of choice.
What do you get in band in a box from asio drivers anyway? Do you hear a difference. ASIO if I remember was a Steinberg program of some sort. It's like the vase in a new Volkswagen. Weird idea, limited use. Especially here at -25C.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326 |
Asio4all crashes too. Only MME is working for me in BB.
My DAW's work fine with Asio, especially the low latency ones. You can use more than one program at a time with Asio ...... running in background.
Many have expressed a desire for improved Asio support ....... I am adding my wish for improved Asio support too.
Mal
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 69
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 69 |
I agree. Something happened to the new program. I have used ASIO with BIAB for the
last 5 yrs. without a problem. Now i am stuck with MME and so much latency that I
cannot use a midi guitar to input melody parts.
Dave
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
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Posts: 8,333 |
You still did not explain what advantage you get with the driver, or the performance of the program or the sound that comes out at the end of the process.
I'd like a ferrari engine in my Mini Cooper but I suspect it's not happening. For now I can get to the store and back just as fast, I probably drive too fast now anyway.
I spent about 100 hours getting ASIO to work in Band in a Box. Then banged my head against the wall because everything sounded identical. And when running ASIO I had to close Band in a Box to see a youtube video or hear other sounds from other programs because it hijacked the signal. That was on Xp sp1, but still. At the moment, my keyboard goes thru to a Ketron with zero latency, so with the keyboard, the Ketron, the voicelive and the usb connection to the Bose system I have zero issues. So even if Pgmusic made perfect use of some ASIO driver system I just want one of the tech gurus here to tell me this is going to make my life easier, my sounds better, and grow hair on my head.
The only way I can crash the current version of Band in a Box is to unplug the USB midi cable and plug it back in. That was just a mistake, I was lazy and wanted to take photos off my camera so I didn't think to shut down band in a box.
I probably should write Edirol and see if they answer me as to why they crashed my computer.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326 |
A somewhat flippant response Mr. Conley.
I note under your name you have, or have been credited as an 'expert' ......... cough, cough.
I have been with BB since the beginning. Yes, I mean the floppies.
There are many advantages using Asio drivers ........ this is well known. Ask any computer / musician familiar with DAW's.
There are no advantages using Asio in BB ........ because BB crashes.
My point is still ........ Can we have more support for Asio.
:-)
Mal
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 603
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 603 |
ASIO works lousy in BiaB, so I voted for Mal Evans, and I hope you will too.
He's wining in a landslide, so at least that part's all right.
Larry
______
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326 |
Mal
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
John you flippy son of a gun,
You know why he hasn't answered you? 'cause he doesn't know.
BTW properly designed ASIO drivers work quite well in BIAB. My Audidgy2ZS Notebook card works great with KX ASIO drivers and the built in AC97 Soundcard that did not come with ASIO drivers also works well using ASIO drivers compiled by Lex Nemury of the KX team.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196 |
How to get B&B not to crash with ASIO Driver
Here’s how I set up ASIO in B&B and stop it from crashing.
On the menu bar “Opt” -> “MIDI/Audio” -> now click on the “Audio Setup (MME)” button then another menu window will appear. Where it says “Audio Driver type” select “ASIO” and another window menu appears and you should see listed your ASIO interface click on this (in my case its UA-4FX) you should see the IN and OUT ports then get listed. Also now click “ASIO always ON”. Now click OK on this menu and then click OK on the next menu window. Now look at the final menu (this was the first one to come up). You should see on the bottom right hand corner the button has changed to “Audio Settings ASIO (Always)”.
NOW here is the CRITICAL final step. Instead of clicking OK on this menu click the little cross at the top right hand corner of this window menu. If you do not do this and click OK you’ll get (At least I do) a transparent white screen (i.e. B&B crashes).
Let’s see how many folks this works for.
Cheers F
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,992
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,992 |
malevans
with due respect mate i would like to comment on asio as follows.
frankly ive never liked the protocol for many reasons as follows.
(other than the sound driver release aspect already mentioned. )
it wasnt open source code as far as i know ...so the question in my mind has been
did its creator put some code in that favored its own daw software ??
i dont know..but its always been a question in my mind...
cos the daw software market is a very competitive one.
and ive seen many times from my past working in hi tech that
hi tech companies sometimes develope a protocol or subsystem in their products for a marketing edge. the old adage used to be "own the technology and you own the market".
frankly i would have been far happier if an independent body had created the standard
with available source code so as to create a level playing field for all daw software that used it.
mebe there are probs in biab...but i find it interesting that the post above indicates
kx drivers work.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
The true believers versus the frustrated 'other DAW users.' LOL
To answer the purportedly imponderable question ... this is the advantage of ASIO: Low Latency.
You know that nasty lag between when you press a key and when you hear a sound?
Some people think that it is a cool idea for recording midi with softsynths while playing back other tracks. As a matter of fact, most people who have ever done this agree.
The issue of 'good' ASIO drivers is incorrect. I have two different pieces of hardware with manufactures ASIO drivers from two different companies whose gear falls in the top 10 of all equipment ... and one in the top 5: RME.
And it doesn't work with only BIAB.
So for you successful ASIOers here, congratulations!
The idea that Steinberg placed some code in ASIO to thwart other coders ... well, that is a sentiment about which each must draw their own conclusion. Interestingly, it hasn't stopped most of their fierce competitors like Sonar/ Cakewalk, Abletion, Sony, etc., from adapting their SDK.
If ASIO is 'flakey, unpredictable, 'your mileage may vary,' etc. with BIAB, then PG Music should stop advertising that it is compatible with BIAB.
i appreciate the avoiding crashing work around of killing a window by hitting the 'x' instead of the 'OK' button ... but c'mon!
As I said in another recent post on this form, just search this forum for 'ASIO' and see all the problems people have.
Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,992
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,992 |
Prado
wit respect i'm very well aware of what latency means. pushing keys etc.
but there is another variable that should be mentioned.
the pc itself. there are oodles of different user configurations.
ive seen people have probs in lots of different daw software with asio support.
just go on various recording forums.
even with people running asio successfully there are many discussions
bout round trip latency etc etc n debates etc etc.
it might be sound device drivers, or it might even be an old clunky system.
mebe in some cases where even people think its asio itself ..
it might not be..just might be the way a particular pc is configged mate.
generally as processors get ever more faster and re engineering of pc's take place
latency will gradually become a thing of the past hopefully.
all i'm saying is there are many different variables from pc to pc.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
Manning1 ... since your are aware, then you must know the advantage of ASIO over MME, assuming all things being equal.
Of course there are myriad other possible issues ... as with any implimentation of software, it presupposes adequate system, i.e., CPU, RAM, OS, etc.
Some of the discussion here seems to have quite overlooked the issue of latency when postulating whether there is any advantage of ASIO vs. MME.
I have a dual dual core Xeon server and a laptop Centrino2 server.
As a retired computer engineer I am sure you fully understand the nature of servers and the testing/ qualification procedures they go through for certification. My point: the possible ASIO problems you refer to don't apply to me. I'm running both machines with 7 msec latency on ASIO when recording. I could go lower to 3 msec and 64bit buffer, but in case I want to throw in an effect or two, leave it at 128bits.
Now, I'm sure you are much more knowleagable than I about computers, but I have done my homework as far as obtaining and maintaining high quality computers for my music. And I cannot get ASIO drivers to work with BIAB ... as I've said ad naseum ... despite having many, many other audio software programs operating flawlessly.
Prado
Last edited by Prado; 02/25/10 04:00 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
One thing that does need to be said PG has not updated there interface to reflect the fact that the MME choice is actually WDM. that
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
4.3 MS with Lex LeMury's 3rd party driver for older AC97 cards.
8.0 MS with KX
Doesn't ever crash but I'd don't use it except for these discussions.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326 |
Interesting FrankK ........ I will give that a try.
silvertones ........ I really should not give you an answer.
Since you are a (veteran), you should know that, no way, are you going to achieve serious recording or playback with MME drivers. It is an old and outdated driver format. WDM drivers should clear up latency problems but pushing them is not advisable. ASIO bypasses Windows Kernel. WDM and MME use Windows Kernel. OS systems are improving and moving toward real time but I don't see that just yet. Vista 64 bit,Windows 7? ..... Rah,rah,rah. Since MME and WDM are for the most part Microsoft, (cough), technology ........ need I say more?
MME is an old technology and doesn't support low latencies, hence the need for the more updated WDM and ASIO driver specs.
Considering the journey ...... BB has come a long, long way. It would be sad to see this aspect of the program neglected.
:-)
Mal
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326 |
So to re-iterate.
Could we have improved support for Asio in BB ......... PLEASE.
:-)
Mal
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
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Posts: 326 |
Well, guess what?
It worked FrankK ............ Thanks a lot sir. The performance improvement is vast using the low latency Asio drivers.
I've just elevated you to genius status. I do wonder how you came to figure that out though.
:-)
Mal
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 326 |
Go tell Peter FrankK ......... he might let you borrow his Learjet for the weekend.
:-)
Mal
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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