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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Peace and Harmony to all,
Does anyone in the group have experience using Biab (and/or ancillary DAW software) with solid state drives (SSD)in their setup?
Of particular interest are multiple-drive systems (whether incorporating SSD or all HDD's) and successful strategies used to relocate Biab (or any other DAW software) files to different drives.
If you are doing somthing like this I'd appreciate a synopsis of your experience.
SSD's are incredibly fast. The real advantage is in seek time. Old platter drives (HDD) have typical real world seek times of 12-18 ms while solid state drives deliver .08 ms to .20 ms (yeah, that's **point oh eight ms**). Read speeds are phenomenal and, depending on your operating system controllers, range from ~100Mb/s to over 250MB/s.
Whoa! Could you use that kind of speed throughout your entire DAW? Yeah, but there are caveats.
SSD weaknesses are relatively slower re-write speeds (due to their architecture), a limited write cycle lifespan of around 10,000 writes per memory cell, and higher cost per GB and, currently, lower drive capacity. 30GB solid state costs around ~$100. A hundred dollars right now can buy a 1TB HDD (or 1000MB)or more of platter disk drives.
To best utilize SSD strengths and avoid their weaknesses my strategy is a hybrid SSD/HDD system: Store the operating systems and essential programs that don't change a lot on an SSD and distribute the data files -- the files that are either very large or are frequently re-written -- among the 'old tech' HDD platter drives.
Maybe another SSD for reading essential audio sample files (that aren't re-written)? Comments and suggestions welcome on this point.
Buying a thousand GB's of solid state is still too expensive for my taste right now, but adding 60-80GB under $200 for the core systems looks good. Even 30GB at ~$100 is enough for the core OS and some essential programs.
Windows ( XP I'm using) writes a bunch of little files and I know how to move those to the platter drives. Biab (and other audio programs) write a bunch of little files, too, and I'd like to hear from anyone with experience or knowledge on moving these files to the platter drives.
Thanks
Lawrence
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Expert
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I've been waiting for the price of SSD drives to come down and capacity to go WAY up. I check Newegg and the other tech sellers. Things haven't changed much. I like the reviews I've been reading about the performance. It seems really well suited to laptops, as it cuts way down on heat.
I would like to find information about using an External SSD. Would it need a power supply? Will it come out in USB 3 variety?
I'd love to move away from platter drives......I just can't spend $750 to get a 360 GB SSD!
Ed
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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If I went with one, it would only be on the boot drive for the OS and for programs, the things that require a lot of Reads and few Writes. I know a few others who have said they are already doing that with good results. The price/capacity is still keeping me from making the move now. I do use a 10,000 rpm WD Raptor drive as my boot drive, and that has convinced me of the benefits of having the fastest boot drive you can get, once it is affordable. I think 60 GB is still too small for the OS and programs, and a larger SSD is cost-prohibitive at the moment.
I don't know about trying an SSD as an external drive. That would guarantee it was not used for the OS, and the only thing stored on it would be data, which gets written to a lot. Loading BIAB from one, though, might make sense. Extremely fast Read speed would be nice for Real Tracks.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2007
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+1 to what Matt said. they're too expensive for me when 7200rpm HD's are less than $100 for a 1T SATA drive right now!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have a 30GB SSD drive I use to boot Windows 7. My other principal drive is a Western Digital 10K Raptor. I use that for swap file (which I know I really don't need but some old apps demand that you have one.) I keep about 7GB free on the C: (Boot) drive, which gives Windows (and those despicable 3rd party apps that don't ask where to put their files) about 22GB.
I get a somewhat faster boot (not close to instant) but what really flies are backups and restores. All my BIAB and RealBand are on a USB 2.0 external. I have never had drive latency issues...
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
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VB-Audio virtual cables
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thought I would update this thread.
It has now been a year since I installed an SSD as my boot drive. Mine is an Intel, but since then there are new ones with better controllers, SATA 6 speeds etc. Even so, I'm thrilled with the performance I get from mine. The best part is that, in one year, I have had zero BSOD. How much of that is Windows 7 64-bit and how much is the stability of the SSD drive, I do not know, but I'm not arguing with success. Plus, Windows boots in 15 seconds.
I run BIAB from the SSD, but my RealTracks are on another drive, a Western Digital 10,000 rpm traditional hard drive. When SSDs are inexpensive enough to buy one large enough for the RealTracks, I will put them on one.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I realize this isn't really what you're talking about in this thread, but it's similar.
I recently installed most of BIAB & RB on a 32 gig USB flash drive. All the RTs wouldn't fit, so I left off those I'm not really interested in. I'm getting ready to travel in my RV and wanted something smaller than the USB hard drive BIAB came on. Seems to work fine. I get the feeling generating RTs is a bit faster than my laptop hard drive, but never measured it. BIAB does seem to take more time to shut down. Looks like it's writing some sort of file to the flash drive. My flash drive appears to be slow in writing, as evidenced by the loooong time it took to copy BIAB stuff to it initially. I keep all my songs and generated WAVs on my laptop drive.
Overall, I'm very satisfied with it so far.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Interesting. So using your Flash drive for just the 'read' operation works great, but you notice it's slower to 'write' to than the laptop drive. I like learning these little tips.
If you are seeing a long write time at the end of a session, see if you have afolder on the Flash drive called RBBackup. If so you may want to keep an eye on that and keep the settings minimal. RB stores a backup file of each project in this folder. Eats space on a smaller drive. But comes in handy at times!
Matt,
I have never experienced a BSOD in W7 64 either.
Then again I don't recall the last BSOD in XP either. It has been quite a while, years.
I think the OS is now much more stable than the reputation. Most crashes are pretty traceable nowadays. Usually an infection (attack) of some sort is the cause. Program crashes are a different story of course. Those don't usually result in BSOD though.
Last edited by rharv; 04/28/11 07:41 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OK, Bob, there is a bubble now burst (and it's your fault), but I'm equally happy for you that you have no BSOD either. My guess was that the non-volatile SSD was better at recovering from program crashes, but maybe that's irrelevant. Instead, perhaps the stability really is from Windows 7 64-bit.
The flash drive surprises me too, that it would work as well as described. I do think they are optimized for read speed rather than write speed.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Oh, don't get me wrong; I admire the boot time, access speeds and write speeds of the SSD drives. It's something I plan investigating (read purchasing). My next rcording system will utilize that.
Since recent OS can use Flash drives for extended RAM, the read doesn't surprise me so much. I'm hoping the write times are due to the backup files being writtten (as described above). I can hope can't I?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Bob, I think you'll really like using a SSD.
My BSOD problems were usually caused by device drivers. I hope I have stable ones, at least for awhile.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Matt. Me too. It's been about a year since installing an Intel SSD boot drive. Initially with XP. I added an installation of Windows 7 in a dual boot to my DAW a few months ago. W7 blows away XP imho.
SSD performance is stellar and I'd never go back to platter HDD for my OS drive.
For anyone venturing into SSD / DAW territory, this is what I did:
Drive 0: = SSD Operating System(s) and program files
Drive 1: = HDD "Write" drive
Drive 2: = HDD "Read" drive
Drive 0, C:/ and D:/, OS system(s) on Intel SSD (I have a XP and W7 on separate parititons as dual boot keeping aXP for old apps W7 doesn't play nice with.) P:/Programs (biab,RB,NI Bandstand, Kontakt)
Drive 1, WD 7200RPM platter HDD - first partition T:/ TEMP and TMP folders, 20GB with a AudioRender folder for rendering audio/projects; 2nd partition - M:/ My Documents folder {XP}
With Windows 7 I also moved Temp and TMP folders to individual folders on T:/ and all the W7 Libraries off the OS system drive to folders on M:/.
(google sevenforums and tweakhound for tutorials on moving these folders off the main os drive)
Drive 2, WD 7200RPM platter HDD - First partition, S:/Sample, (duh, for sample libraries i.e. Bandstand, Kontakt); 2nd partition, R:/RealTracks, Drums
Space on the back of the drives used for backups and data archives.
Note 1 :If you have the extra drive channels, you could further devide the folders for Temp, Audio/projects, etc. among individual dedicated drives.
Note 2: SSD's are fast for read/write Page File, so I leave that on the OS SSD fixed size = to RAM.
This setup has been working great for my DAW with XP pre-SSD, post-SSD; and W7-SSD.
As with any data management strategy, your preferences and mileage may vary.
Last edited by Lawrence.1955; 04/29/11 08:04 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Biggest tip for users of an SSD: do not run Defrag on it. Watch out for this being "auto-scheduled".
Also, with an Intel SSD, run the Intel SSD Toolbox utility periodically; the first menu choice invokes the Trim command to keep the drive organized optimally after file deletes.
About your drive 1, the original generation of SSD drives are supposedly not as well suited for 'writes' as they are for 'reads', even if you do have an OS that supports the Trim command (as Windows 7 does). Perhaps the advice has now changed, but it used to be recommended that SSD drives worked best for holding the OS and apps, but not as well for data.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2010
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No Defrag on SSD, good advice, Matt.
To anyone reading this, there are a host of good and not so good tweaks for SSD's and Windows 7 published on the web. Use caution. I pretty much followed tweakhounds Windows 7 tutorials for installing and setting up my W7 OS on SSD with excellent results. With a few well researched variations for a DAW specific application. Again, caution is wise.
Matt, my Drive 0 is my Intel SSD. Drives 1, 2 are Western Digital rotating HDD's. Initially, I had a 80GB Intel Generation 1 (no trim support) but recently upgraded that to a 160GB G2 Intel SSD which supports trim.
My old Intel G1 SSD with XP OS has been on "standby" since migrating to the Intel G2. I envision eventually wiping the old G1 and using it for S:/Samples and R:/RealTracks (all reads other than additions and updates). In my testing, pulling RT/RD and NI samples from the Intel G1 SSD rendered a bit faster, with a lower cpu load and allowed a 6ms lower latency setting vs. pulling them from the Western Digital 7200RPM rotating HDD.
Band in a Box 2011 is really snappy with an SSD in my DAW machine.
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Anyone else want an SSD now??
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm running BIAB on a Macbook pro quad 2.3GHZ with a OCZ Vertex 3, 240GB, 6gbps SSD, with Colossus as the soft syth (prefer it to even to real tracks).
Thing is, i'm running it in a virtual machine (VMware). It's as fast as native, even running Kontakt.
No sense installing Bootcamp any longer LOL.
BTW, this Vertex gives me 475 Mb/s reads and writes. (for those who may not know, a 7200 rpm WD drive gets about 110 Mb/s (at best? )
The good thing about these VM's, is that you can freeze them, shuffle them around, copy them, and save them for later.
Very convenient.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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