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Before i go on with this let's just acknowledge that this is not a new subject, and that we are not truly in the drivers seat here! but here we go.
please cast a vote for one of the following options as to what you feel you would best appreciate and support for future annual upgrades for PGM products.
Band in a Box:
1. 50 new features and 212 new Real Tracks and some cool new styles. (business as usual)
2. 10 t0 20 upgraded current features (I.E. fix older bugs and complete recent Features) and 400 new RTs Loops, Midi loops and some cool new Styles.
examples of fixes and upgrades 255 bar limit fixed, VST3 completed, Tracks view editing upgraded to similar as in the audio edit window, Context menus cleaned up and redundancy removed. Time signatures expanded, RT/RDs enhanced to work with the aforementioned time sigs, GUI clean up, etc.
Please vote 1 or 2 (if you have a couple examples of feature upgrades feel free to add them to the list.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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2.
This is what I've recommended for several years. Even with the 'normal' number of new RealTracks, loops and styles, I think it would be the right way to go.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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This is a tough choice for me because the two choices don't offer much nuance. In the way that I use BiaB I either don't notice the bugs/clunkiness/dated feel or if I do notice I can live with it since I get out of BiaB and into my DAW as soon as possible. But on the other hand if the programmers could incorporate truly new and useful features then I think I'd be happy for years. [To be sure, I'm happy now.] I really don't need the "business as usual" with more pre-defined styles added onto the zillion styles we already have, many of which seem to be duplicates. Two noteworthy new features for me would be: a. an AI capability that can accept an audio file as input and create a BiaB "style" based on that audio file https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=101811&Number=770140b. the capability to craft or find a drum/percussion pattern similar to the EZDrummer capability https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=104862&Number=801236Forced to choose, my answer is 1 (but I don't need 50 new features or 212 more RealTracks)
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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BT, i hear you i do not dive too deep either. Still, what you are suggesting may be problematic. Imagine bolting fancy new AI on to older Dephi coding. Right now, even getting VST3 to work seems to be daunting. The new features we have seen in the past few years are just new ways of handing existing code and using existing features and altering them rather than adding anything that is coming from the AI world. I would worry that a brand-new AI based drum or pattern system may half work and take years to work out the bugs. This leaves long sought after issues unaddressed. Time will tell. Let's see what else is added to this conversation.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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I worry a little that the directions encouraging us to vote and then also list the examples of suggested feature upgrades compromise the value of the poll. This is not the Wishlist forum. This poll, placed in this forum, should elicit opinions from users about the general future direction rather than be a place for listing those suggested new features. [I do like that a couple of new features, like VST3, were cited to explain the two options.]
Indeed, if VST3 support were added to BIAB, as I understand it Bass Thumper could have his 2nd wish. And I do really like the 1st wish, just not here.
Steve may be more representative of BIAB users than I am, and he may already have most of what is needed to use BIAB to do what he wants to do. I happen to feel that some basic properties of BIAB seriously impede my ability to do my work, and I would rather take a halt on new features and enhance/fix the existing ones. I think that's what Rob is asking in the poll., and it's a valid question. Is that accurate?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I vote for #2. But what is suggested would take a complete rewrite so I doubt it will ever happen.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I vote #2 and it wouldn't even need "400 new RTs Loops, Midi loops and some cool new Styles"; I'd be happy with that part just being the normal "212 new Real Tracks and some cool new styles". I do think they need to add more variety to the RTs they are providing as new; so many seem like rehashes of existing ones.
IMPORTANT: If they released an upgrade and did not include new RTs I would def take a pass! At this point I only upgrade to get the new RTs.
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Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
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BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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#2
Even if it took 2 - 3 years to finish all the bug fixes and upgrades to existing issues-- so no new features except the usual Realtracks. PGmusic could be developing a 2nd version of BIAB based on new code and AI during that time, even if it meant sub-contracting another company to do it.
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I think you have got to look at a way bigger picture to future proof it. Think a lot bigger than these 2 options.
PG need to initiate BIG things rather than waiting years down the track to play catch up, VST3 that's old now, DAW's have RealTimeSignatures, DAW's have more that 255 bars, Toontrack has RealTimeSignatures. Get out of the Time Warp, initiate something BIG NOW.
THINK BIG !
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#1 & #2 also just clean-up 2024 as it stands and plan something alongside what we have to get a complete functioning BiaB for 2025
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I worry a little that the directions encouraging us to vote and then also list the examples of suggested feature upgrades compromise the value of the poll. This is not the Wishlist forum. This poll, placed in this forum, should elicit opinions from users about the general future direction rather than be a place for listing those suggested new features. Matt, I agree. I also agree that the impetus behind this poll is important but there are some topics too broad to be effectively dealt with via a flurry of individual forum posts; forum posts that will likely become lost and forgotten in just a few short months if not sooner. Therefore, why not lead an effort with other seasoned “grey beards” and music experts to write an intelligent 4-page white paper? The purpose of the paper would be to document the strengths and weaknesses of BiaB and suggested goals from a user’s perspective. If even 6 pages is required, so what? The point would be to capture (and hopefully inform) users and PG staff how the program should evolve and why. Such a paper would have much more permanence and staying power compared to a forum thread. I wouldn’t let the lack of a website to contain the document prevent its creation. There are several solutions to the “dissemination problem” including simple email. The title of the paper could be something like “ An Analysis Of Music Creation Software And BiaB’s Role: 2024 and Beyond”, or similar. Some possible sections could be 1. Purpose of the Paper 2. BiaB’s Strengths 3. BiaB’s Weaknesses 4. The Needs of the Professional Musician 5. The Needs of the Amateur/Hobbyist Musician 6. The Needs of Gen Z and Gen Alpha 7. The Role of the DAW 8. Trends in Computer Programming Languages, Hardware Platforms and the Internet 9. The Present and Future Competitive Pressures Posed by the Marketplace 10. The Coming AI Sunami 11. Suggested Goals for BiaB 2025 12. Suggested Goals for BiaB 2030 13. Summary/Conclusion EDIT: Of course everything above would be based on publically available information. --Steve
Last edited by Bass Thumper; 05/13/24 05:05 AM.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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#2 (BIAB) - fix known bugs and common sense workflow improvements such as vertical full length cursor in track view, All Tracks Are Equal and few others come to mind. I am not going to mention obvious VST3 as it was said to be done before the end of the year.
--> Full focus on the Plugin as that's likely be the future.
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Why vote when pg does not care what you’re asking for?
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1113, MegaPaK
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> when pg does not care what you’re asking for?
Not true.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Windows 11 Pro 64-bit (24H2), BiaB and Realband 2024, Studio One Pro 7 (latest release), Reason 12, Live 10, StudioLive Series III 32, Intel NUC 13 (Intel i5-1340P, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD)
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> when pg does not care what you’re asking for?
Not true. But it can sometimes feel true. When that 255 bar limit has has requests for it to be increased dating back around 15 years and when 5/4 time has to be coerced with two BIAB bars for every bar of the song, and requests for broader support of less common measures also date back around 15 years. And when you post lots of stuff showing how to coerce BIAB into less common time signatures, it certainly can feel like PGM don't care.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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> when 5/4 time has to be coerced with two BIAB bars for every bar of the song
There’s a single function to set 5/4 for a number of bars. For example, to set it for the whole song, main menu - edit time signature and press whole song. And for shorter ranges select the range you want. That takes about 10 seconds to set your whole song to 5/4. And this will play with any style, any RealTracks and tempo etc.
> And when you post lots of stuff showing how to coerce BIAB into less common time signatures, it certainly can feel like PGM don't care.
Well that’s why I’m posting this information, so people are aware of what BiaB can do. It is trivial to setup a song in 5/4, 7/4, 6/8, 9/8, 12/8 and play them in any style.
Last edited by PeterGannon; 05/12/24 03:38 PM.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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