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Before i go on with this let's just acknowledge that this is not a new subject, and that we are not truly in the drivers seat here! but here we go.
please cast a vote for one of the following options as to what you feel you would best appreciate and support for future annual upgrades for PGM products.
Band in a Box:
1. 50 new features and 212 new Real Tracks and some cool new styles. (business as usual)
2. 10 t0 20 upgraded current features (I.E. fix older bugs and complete recent Features) and 400 new RTs Loops, Midi loops and some cool new Styles.
examples of fixes and upgrades 255 bar limit fixed, VST3 completed, Tracks view editing upgraded to similar as in the audio edit window, Context menus cleaned up and redundancy removed. Time signatures expanded, RT/RDs enhanced to work with the aforementioned time sigs, GUI clean up, etc.
Please vote 1 or 2 (if you have a couple examples of feature upgrades feel free to add them to the list.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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2.
This is what I've recommended for several years. Even with the 'normal' number of new RealTracks, loops and styles, I think it would be the right way to go.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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This is a tough choice for me because the two choices don't offer much nuance. In the way that I use BiaB I either don't notice the bugs/clunkiness/dated feel or if I do notice I can live with it since I get out of BiaB and into my DAW as soon as possible. But on the other hand if the programmers could incorporate truly new and useful features then I think I'd be happy for years. [To be sure, I'm happy now.] I really don't need the "business as usual" with more pre-defined styles added onto the zillion styles we already have, many of which seem to be duplicates. Two noteworthy new features for me would be: a. an AI capability that can accept an audio file as input and create a BiaB "style" based on that audio file https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=101811&Number=770140b. the capability to craft or find a drum/percussion pattern similar to the EZDrummer capability https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=104862&Number=801236Forced to choose, my answer is 1 (but I don't need 50 new features or 212 more RealTracks)
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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BT, i hear you i do not dive too deep either. Still, what you are suggesting may be problematic. Imagine bolting fancy new AI on to older Dephi coding. Right now, even getting VST3 to work seems to be daunting. The new features we have seen in the past few years are just new ways of handing existing code and using existing features and altering them rather than adding anything that is coming from the AI world. I would worry that a brand-new AI based drum or pattern system may half work and take years to work out the bugs. This leaves long sought after issues unaddressed. Time will tell. Let's see what else is added to this conversation.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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I worry a little that the directions encouraging us to vote and then also list the examples of suggested feature upgrades compromise the value of the poll. This is not the Wishlist forum. This poll, placed in this forum, should elicit opinions from users about the general future direction rather than be a place for listing those suggested new features. [I do like that a couple of new features, like VST3, were cited to explain the two options.]
Indeed, if VST3 support were added to BIAB, as I understand it Bass Thumper could have his 2nd wish. And I do really like the 1st wish, just not here.
Steve may be more representative of BIAB users than I am, and he may already have most of what is needed to use BIAB to do what he wants to do. I happen to feel that some basic properties of BIAB seriously impede my ability to do my work, and I would rather take a halt on new features and enhance/fix the existing ones. I think that's what Rob is asking in the poll., and it's a valid question. Is that accurate?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I vote for #2. But what is suggested would take a complete rewrite so I doubt it will ever happen.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I vote #2 and it wouldn't even need "400 new RTs Loops, Midi loops and some cool new Styles"; I'd be happy with that part just being the normal "212 new Real Tracks and some cool new styles". I do think they need to add more variety to the RTs they are providing as new; so many seem like rehashes of existing ones.
IMPORTANT: If they released an upgrade and did not include new RTs I would def take a pass! At this point I only upgrade to get the new RTs.
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Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
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MOTO 2
Ketron SD90
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BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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#2
Even if it took 2 - 3 years to finish all the bug fixes and upgrades to existing issues-- so no new features except the usual Realtracks. PGmusic could be developing a 2nd version of BIAB based on new code and AI during that time, even if it meant sub-contracting another company to do it.
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I think you have got to look at a way bigger picture to future proof it. Think a lot bigger than these 2 options.
PG need to initiate BIG things rather than waiting years down the track to play catch up, VST3 that's old now, DAW's have RealTimeSignatures, DAW's have more that 255 bars, Toontrack has RealTimeSignatures. Get out of the Time Warp, initiate something BIG NOW.
THINK BIG !
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#1 & #2 also just clean-up 2024 as it stands and plan something alongside what we have to get a complete functioning BiaB for 2025
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I worry a little that the directions encouraging us to vote and then also list the examples of suggested feature upgrades compromise the value of the poll. This is not the Wishlist forum. This poll, placed in this forum, should elicit opinions from users about the general future direction rather than be a place for listing those suggested new features. Matt, I agree. I also agree that the impetus behind this poll is important but there are some topics too broad to be effectively dealt with via a flurry of individual forum posts; forum posts that will likely become lost and forgotten in just a few short months if not sooner. Therefore, why not lead an effort with other seasoned “grey beards” and music experts to write an intelligent 4-page white paper? The purpose of the paper would be to document the strengths and weaknesses of BiaB and suggested goals from a user’s perspective. If even 6 pages is required, so what? The point would be to capture (and hopefully inform) users and PG staff how the program should evolve and why. Such a paper would have much more permanence and staying power compared to a forum thread. I wouldn’t let the lack of a website to contain the document prevent its creation. There are several solutions to the “dissemination problem” including simple email. The title of the paper could be something like “ An Analysis Of Music Creation Software And BiaB’s Role: 2024 and Beyond”, or similar. Some possible sections could be 1. Purpose of the Paper 2. BiaB’s Strengths 3. BiaB’s Weaknesses 4. The Needs of the Professional Musician 5. The Needs of the Amateur/Hobbyist Musician 6. The Needs of Gen Z and Gen Alpha 7. The Role of the DAW 8. Trends in Computer Programming Languages, Hardware Platforms and the Internet 9. The Present and Future Competitive Pressures Posed by the Marketplace 10. The Coming AI Sunami 11. Suggested Goals for BiaB 2025 12. Suggested Goals for BiaB 2030 13. Summary/Conclusion EDIT: Of course everything above would be based on publically available information. --Steve
Last edited by Bass Thumper; 05/13/24 05:05 AM.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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#2 (BIAB) - fix known bugs and common sense workflow improvements such as vertical full length cursor in track view, All Tracks Are Equal and few others come to mind. I am not going to mention obvious VST3 as it was said to be done before the end of the year.
--> Full focus on the Plugin as that's likely be the future.
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Why vote when pg does not care what you’re asking for?
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1113, MegaPaK
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PG Music Staff
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> when pg does not care what you’re asking for?
Not true.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Windows 11 Pro 64-bit (25H2), BiaB and Realband 2025, Studio One Pro 7 (latest release), Reason 12, Live 10, StudioLive Series III 32, Intel NUC 13 (Intel i5-1340P, Intel Iris Xe Graphics, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD)
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> when pg does not care what you’re asking for?
Not true. But it can sometimes feel true. When that 255 bar limit has has requests for it to be increased dating back around 15 years and when 5/4 time has to be coerced with two BIAB bars for every bar of the song, and requests for broader support of less common measures also date back around 15 years. And when you post lots of stuff showing how to coerce BIAB into less common time signatures, it certainly can feel like PGM don't care.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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> when 5/4 time has to be coerced with two BIAB bars for every bar of the song
There’s a single function to set 5/4 for a number of bars. For example, to set it for the whole song, main menu - edit time signature and press whole song. And for shorter ranges select the range you want. That takes about 10 seconds to set your whole song to 5/4. And this will play with any style, any RealTracks and tempo etc.
> And when you post lots of stuff showing how to coerce BIAB into less common time signatures, it certainly can feel like PGM don't care.
Well that’s why I’m posting this information, so people are aware of what BiaB can do. It is trivial to setup a song in 5/4, 7/4, 6/8, 9/8, 12/8 and play them in any style.
Last edited by PeterGannon; 05/12/24 03:38 PM.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
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