Yes, but but if so it seems that they have not yet realized that the GUI needs to be updated. I new modern team of GUI designers would already have that insight with them.
I do not think New GUI designers is needed. They have just been building on what it started with. They need to come to the realization that the GUI needs to be updated! Robert
FWIW I think the entire code needs to be updated, modernized and rewritten. YMMV
I can think of three ways users use BiaB 1) Everything is done in BiaB 2) Do what they can in BiaB and then import into their DAW to finish it. 3) Do what they can in BiaB and then import into Realband to finish it.
Now if Realband is integrated into BiaB, then there is only 2 ways to use BiaB
Me on the other hand want to do what I can in BiaB (Imagine a Band that practices on getting the song correct and when they are ready, then they record it), and then Live stream into my daw (Recording and then doing all the engineering) to finish it.
That’s my way, but with that said, I want to change BiaB for users to use it any way they want!
After reading all of this post I have realized that BIAB is definitely a very strange program from a modern software perspective. I take it from your all's comments that it has been built up and layered from an ancient base and has never had a complete modern makeover as far as function, labeling, GUI etc. How unusual in the modern software universe. I am going to postulate that a complete makeover to bring everything up to modern standards would be very expensive and involve a huge investment of time. Has PGM given any feedback on their orientation on this topic? Not criticizing - just asking.
Originally Posted by musocity
"The recent screenshot you posted would influence the quality of the track generation if the generation occurs in RealBand" Biab is becoming a DAW because RealBand was too slow at generating (main issue why it was not popular), I was on RealBand for years trying to improve it as I did not use Biab because you had to type in everything you wanted it to do, you could not see the tracks. Either users want the old Biab auto accompaniment on stage or they want to use it to create up tracks and work like a DAW. I think the horse has bolted and it can only go one way from here. My main focus in the BB Plugin/ Standalone as I can see all the limitations of Biab RealBand going into the future, I don't think things can last the way it's going with 6mths Win 6mths Mac, it needs to be true crossplatform eventually, RealBand is Win only, the future of PG is having a Linux and iPad version as well as Win Mac all released at the same time, but for now it will keep going how it's going for a while longer. See while we are doing this here with BB25, the Mac users are still waiting but there is zero concern because we got it already. Do we look at what's best for I, Me or what's best for us all and work for that ?
Typing in numbers BB2009, users can go back to these versions and they will still work in a less DAW way.
I can think of three ways users use BiaB 1) Everything is done in BiaB 2) Do what they can in BiaB and then import into their DAW to finish it. 3) Do what they can in BiaB and then import into Realband to finish it.
Me: 4) Create what tracks they want in their DAW and then import the tracks into Band-in-a-Box to finish it.
"They need to come to the realization that the GUI needs to be updated!"
They sort of did about 8 years ago = minimalistic GUI, which cut through a lot of cholesterol, but made up only about 20% of whole UI experience. Since then nothing much changed until MTP and several non-modal tools came in 2024. MTP in my view was a success, but still it bothers me that it wasn't put in a nicer "shell", utilizing same type of context boxes, buttons, etc from ~15 years ago.
I had high hopes for 2025, as far as continuation of UI / workflow improvements. Unfortunately that didn't happen.
Mario, Even mighty Cakewalk with heavy cash injection from wealthy Kuok Khoon Hong family kept most of old code (some from decades ago). Instead of a re-write, they focused on UI and workflow! My biggest concern on the BIAB "code" was that regenerations were super slow on larger projects pre 2024. Meaning, you change a single chord and wait and wait and wait till it's done. 2024 changed that in the most dramatic way. Now whole song takes only a few short seconds to regenerate. Besides about 30-40 known issues (workflow and bugs), I have no problem with speed or most functions. UI and workflow is the last frontier.
I don't think flirting with AI in similar manner it was done in 2025 will solve anything. Also, I believe PGM doesn't have the luxury of time it had 10 years ago to experiment with non essential things (video tracks anyone?) or leave features in half baked state. Tech world had gone through transformations with lots of competition in the wild & customers want a longer ride for their $.
------------- There is only one question JAOM raised that stands out to me. It went something like: "Are you willing to pay more?" I think 10%-15% increase is absolutely OK, if that what it will take to propel BIAB to a new level.
I don't think flirting with AI in similar manner it was done in 2025 will solve anything. ------------- There is only one question JAOM raised that stands out to me. It went something like: "Are you willing to pay more?" I think 10%-15% increase is absolutely OK, if that what it will take to propel BIAB to a new level.
To me "AI" should not be in BiaB, Just do like Henry Clark did "Band in a Box + ChatGPT = impressed the BOSS !"
I'm sure many would be willing to pay more, I have thou a different way PGM could get the extra $$ Some may pay a little more and others a little less. This would be done in a fair way for all.
"There is only one question JAOM raised that stands out to me. It went something like: "Are you willing to pay more?" I think 10%-15% increase is absolutely OK, if that what it will take to propel BIAB to a new level."
I remember years back suggesting crowd funding and PG said no we don't need that. What would they do hire more Delphi programmers to fit the work in the 6 months time slot ? From what I can see there seems to be a lot of Delphi programmers working on Biab and "1" C++ working on the JUCE Plugin v7 that is ready now with a great GUI for Win & Mac while PG have just started moving the Biab Win 2025 code to Biab Mac for the next 6 months. Can you all see what really needs doing ? heaven forbid if they spend all the time working on 1 code, this is total craziness, no other company on planet earth has crossplatform applications released at the same time with same features do they ? Forget about AI !
I prefer BIAB to Plugin for many reasons, not worth of mentioning in this topic. Here is what AI says:
"While Delphi is not necessarily associated with the latest cutting-edge UI design trends, using its FireMonkey framework, custom styles, and third-party components can help you create a modern, attractive GUI. The key to modernizing your Delphi GUI is using clean layouts, responsive design, and smooth animations to ensure your application feels contemporary and intuitive."
"Delphi's FireMonkey (FMX) framework allows for the creation of cross-platform, modern UIs that work across Windows, macOS, iOS, and Android. FireMonkey supports the use of custom styles, vector graphics, and rich animations, enabling a modern look."
"Use modern design patterns: Consider using flat UI design, minimalistic color schemes, and large typography. These are key characteristics of modern UIs. Responsive layouts: FireMonkey allows for responsive design, meaning you can create UIs that adjust to different screen sizes and resolutions."
You don't need AI to tell you that band in a box GUI Modernization all this stuffs goes right back and is just repeated in big long threads about the GUI over the years.
This is just an simulated way pricing could go How about this Pricing structure (*=2025 current pricing shown) New Customers BiaB Pro $129* Program Addons (AO) VST3 Support $10 The Chord Builder $10 Guitar Tuner $7 Ear Training $7 Practice/Wood Shedding $10 Jukebox $5 Lyrics $10 Auto generate Song title $7 File Utilities $15 Total for all AO $81 Total cost for BiaB Pro cost of each addon, if the user wanted all addons his total cost would be $230 Now if he only wanted these addons VST $10 Chord Builder $10 File Utilities $15 Total for Addons $35 and BiaB Pro for $129 his total coust would be $164
**************************************************** For users that are Upgrading, they need to call to get the best pricing, based on how long & what they currently own. For example: Joe user has owned the program for over 20yrs and has the Audiophile package download and pays $619 +20 for all addins Tom has owned the program for over 7yrs and has the UltraPak package and pays $469* +20 for all addins Now Larry has owned the program for over 3yrs and has the MegaPak package and pays $269* +and only these addons VST $10 Chord Builder $10 File Utilities $15 Total for Addons $35, but gets a discount costing him $15
This is just a thought, Users buy what they want and not get the things they do not want.
So as for Pricing, only PGM can tell us what that would be.
This is just an simulated way pricing could go How about this Pricing structure (*=2025 current pricing shown) New Customers BiaB Pro $129* Program Addons (AO) VST3 Support $10 The Chord Builder $10 Guitar Tuner $7 Ear Training $7 Practice/Wood Shedding $10 Jukebox $5 Lyrics $10 Auto generate Song title $7 File Utilities $15 Total for all AO $81 Total cost for BiaB Pro cost of each addon, if the user wanted all addons his total cost would be $230 Now if he only wanted these addons VST $10 Chord Builder $10 File Utilities $15 Total for Addons $35 and BiaB Pro for $129 his total coust would be $164
**************************************************** For users that are Upgrading, they need to call to get the best pricing, based on how & what they currently own. For example: Joe user has owned the program for over 20yrs and has the Audiophile package download and pays $619 +20 for all addins Tom has owned the program for over 7yrs and has the UltraPak package and pays $469* +20 for all addins Now Larry has owned the program for over 3yrs and has the MegaPak package and pays $269* +and only these addons VST $10 Chord Builder $10 File Utilities $15 Total for Addons $35, but gets a discount costing him $15
This is just a thought, Users buy what they want and not get the things they do not want.
So as for Pricing, only PGM can tell us what I would be.
Robert
I hope you are joking! A pricing model like this would be pure chaos and almost certainly put PGM out of business very quickly! Just imagine how much extra workload this would create to break all of these bits and pieces out to sell separately! Every possible config would have to be tested. And the confusion it would create among users would be insane!
Nope. Anything even remotely like this and I would be done with any further upgrades.
I think you will run into issues with tooooooo many versions. It's a big headache as it is with all the "packs" and "add ons". Topic comes up nearly every 2 weeks. I think price of a program, and especially updates are very fair. Lets not go that route, as it's a company's business to set pricing. Question came up, and I answered that to me, 10%-15% increase in software (not content) price is VERY reasonable, if it will take it to new level.
That means, the software will be more expensive with variation from ~$5-$20, depending on sale season and upgrade vs new purchase. I think local Burger King pays $18/ hour...
JUCE is the most widely used framework for audio application and plug-in development. It is an open source C++ codebase that can be used to create standalone software on Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS and Android, as well as VST, VST3, AU, AUv3, AAX and LV2 plug-ins.
JUCE allows developers to focus on the most valuable parts of their software by taking care of the differences between operating systems (both desktop and mobile) and plug-in formats. With JUCE’s library of digital audio processing (DSP) building blocks you can quickly prototype and release native applications and plug-ins with a consistent user experience across all supported platforms. Using JUCE also future-proofs your products against operating system and plug-in host updates.
A Quantum Leap is needed else the same thing is gonna drag on for years. I type things and as I type I think this is all familiar, so I look way way back in the forum posts of years n years n years... and sure enough it's all been said before.
"I care less..." "See while we are doing this here with BB25, the Mac users are still waiting but there is zero concern because we got it already. Do we look at what's best for I, Me or what's best for us all and work for that ?"
So you are saying that if it's $20 more for you to get the new BiaB and would not purchase it, someone else said that they are will to pay 10-15% more.
Now take Tom example, he has owned the program for over 7yrs and has the UltraPak package and pays $469* +15% (Which is $70,35) totals $539.53, my example was for a total of $489. At 10% its $515.90 Believe or not, they do that with Accounting software, accounts payable, accounts receivable and you can pay extra for addins to the software, like billings, fixed assets, payroll, and inventory. I've even seen something like this for Medical software as well.
Now with BiaB, some people are stating that they would pay for an increase (10-15%) if the GUI and other issues are fixed. I'm only stating, that Any current user should get some kind of discount, and it is possible to separate some of the things in BiaB into addin's (One programming app called them Black Boxes, which are fully capable apps that can can be easily add to an application)
So this can be done, depending on how BiaB is written. It's as simple as adding their "MegaPAK. UltraPAK, UltraPAK+ or the Audiophile Edition to BiaB, same could be done with some of the components with BiaB currently.
At one time we had Movable/Floating toolbars and they took that away from us. When you purchase BiaB, you get several files in your download, and they are installed by their installer. There are companies that do this, and they have not gone out of business because of doing this.
As far as how they will do this and what the cost will be, it's not for me or anyone of us to say.
I think you will run into issues with tooooooo many versions. It's a big headache as it is with all the "packs" and "add ons". Topic comes up nearly every 2 weeks. I think price of a program, and especially updates are very fair. Lets not go that route, as it's a company's business to set pricing. Question came up, and I answered that to me, 10%-15% increase in software (not content) price is VERY reasonable, if it will take it to new level.
That means, the software will be more expensive with variation from ~$5-$20, depending on sale season and upgrade vs new purchase. I think local Burger King pays $18/ hour...
No Issues, They have a record/ history of what we own. Calling to order an upgrade, and letting them know what you want, they could quickly come with the cost for you to upgrade, and put the corresponding files in your download folder to download, which is with an installer. Now it installs what you purchased. I've first hand seen this work with Both Accounting and Medical software.
But again, PGM is the one to decide how they will do things. NOT ME!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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