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Here I added it all to a super easy GUI design creator free to download and use http://www.webpage-maker.com/load this template into WPM: BB25-Theme-WebPageMaker.zip use shift click to select more than one, drag n drop images into WPM workspace will zoom in/out with mouse+Ctrl copy elements from one page to the other, add new pages you can add text boxes, click on text boxes then use color picker to color, add color boarder by right click Properties resize, move, layer color background by clicking background then selecting color picker you can preview in browser or just take a screen shot you can use your normal editor instead as they are just images, or you can use https://www.gimp.org/find any other source images here C:\bb\Data\Images\MainScreenButtons you can use free https://www.irfanview.com/ to save in other formats, like the bpm with the pink transparent you can save to gif or png and click on the pink color in the save dialog, this will save as transparent gif or png you can use print-Screen button on keyboard that paste in irfanview, then select area and ctrl+y to crop ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=29875&filename=BB25-GUI-WPM.gif)
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Just the GUI parts is pretty easy. The hard part is making all of the guts of the application(s) work cleanly with the GUI, update other windows properly, not have unexpected side-effects, and sp on, especially when the existing guts were not written with sucg a GUI in mind. It takes a lot of thought, planning and preparation. It can feel like one has a large, challenging mountain to climb with many risks of falls. Doing a major redesign can be scary. In my experience it usually goes far better than one fears, but not always. How confident would one be if the redesign estimate was five man-years of work? Or ten? Or thirty? One of the issues with using 'builders' is that sometimes the builders don't keep up with progress and are superceded in ways that aren't always easy to accomodate. I've had a superb GUI buillder just not be updated for years due to low uptake because the underlying programming language went out of fashion. I now have a GUI product that I can't update without a total rewrite from the ground up! And I cannot justify doing that.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Point is it's doable and it's not a rocket science. Nothing personal, but that phrase always irritates. "Rocket science" is actually fairly easy. Much more complex is the maths around navigation and control. The space shuttle was controlled by five computers, each with power not much greater that a very good pocket calculator and all doing much the same thing. The control surfaces were all drive by hydraulics with five independent systems, each driven by one of the computers. The hydraulics formed a voting system, so that provided a majority of the computers agreed and most of the hytdraulics were OK, three or more systems would overpower the other(s).
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mario,
Even mighty Cakewalk with heavy cash injection from wealthy Kuok Khoon Hong family kept most of old code (some from decades ago). Instead of a re-write, they focused on UI and workflow! new level. Misha my friend that maybe true but my point is that Cakewalk didn't leave bugs in their software for years like PGM. Because of that issue I think PGM is locked into old code and that is why they can not change or find the problems. Cakewalk also didn't incorporate new features that were not ready for prime time. A bug or two that was immediately fixed. Don't get we wrong. Virtually all of my songs start in BiaB and I really like PGM. But the competition is gaining ground. A number of companies have passed BiaB's MIDI side and I'm sure it will not be long before some company will issue a RT like program. I feel that if BiaB stays like it is with long time bugs and convoluted menus, GUI, and not ready for prime time features then the company is doomed, much like Slim Pickens riding the nuclear bomb. That is just my opinion and YMMV.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I am sorry, but I have to excuse myself from this conversation. I stopped seeing the main point of it.
Who's fault is it that company didn't adopt to norms when everybody else did? Mine? How hard it is? I guess it's not a one day job. Why should I feel pitty or forgiving?
Blame lies equally on PGM for being blind to the issue and on those anti progress, forgiving, or conservative users who let this come to this stage.
With MTP and other non modal tools in 2024 I thought that trend of UI nonsense is finally reversing, I guess I was wrong.
Again, I don't believe PGM has a luxury of time it had 10-15 years ago to play games.
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Mario,
Cakewalk actually fixed great many old bugs when BL took over. You are right about half baked features. That is a problem. But the biggest problem is not the release of those half done things (that happens with other companies), but because they leave it hanging without coming back and completing features the next cycle.
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 01/12/25 08:02 AM.
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I am sorry, but I have to excuse myself from this conversation. I stopped seeing the main point of it. A apologise if I was a factor in that. AFAICS PGM have been avoiding the GUI+usability issues for years and years. The longer they ignore them the harder it gets.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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@Rustyspoon# Don’t give up! We all have gotten off track from the Topic a little, including me! Sometimes these are things we cannot control. To everyone I’m gonna start by making an open statement and a summary of these post and what we would like to see. All we are asking is to fix some inconsistencies with BiaB and some GUI changes to allow Users to better manage BiaB. Some of the earlier post show how just moving things around can make BiaB look less cluttered, hence, easier to use. As far as cost, let PGM decide that, it’s really none of our business!So what I and many users would like to see is…. 1) A cleaner Main screen (See earlier post for image example). 2) All the windows be made floating and allow users to place them where you want and stay there. So that when you reopen BiaB it’s in the place you set it (Also see point #4) 3) Change the Preferences screen (See earlier post for image example) to a menu system and better group things and remove redundant windows. 4) Allow user to float toolbars and other parts of BiaB, It’s best to have Dockers that the Toolbars could be in as well, with tabs at the bottom to quickly switch between that could also be floating. Larger Dockers could also have more than 1 window in them with tabs below.
Let’s also keep this about BiaB only.Now below is a image on the Main screen of BiaB, showing the following 1) Areas in gray at the top are fixed showing the open/save options, to the Left are fixed icons (buttons) that control (Open/Close) windows in the main window (Green area) 2) The blue area is for wherever PGM feels should go there. 3) The Red areas are for toolbars (See earlier post showing how clean the GUI is, doing this) 4) Any window that opens in the green area should be able to float if the user wants. ![[Linked Image from ]]( https://i.imgur.com/DKLYND6.png) Please let’s keep this on the topic of the "GUI" that we want is see, If I messed something and/or want me to try and make a image of something, let me know. I’m open to ideas! Also please, let’s not make references to another DAW, this is only about BiaB. Robert 
Last edited by robertw; 01/12/25 11:18 AM.
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As far as "Fonts", I really do not think everyone would agree what's best, Let PGM have control on the Fronts.The only Font that I see users should be allowed to change is the track names for example: Guitars to GuitarsRobert
Last edited by robertw; 01/12/25 11:28 AM.
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Many of the complaints expressed in this thread have been detailed beginning in Section 4 in this paper written last year. BiaB White Paper If a code re-write is being considered to modernize the GUI, harnessing AI to do the grunt work may make sense. Apparently, a free trial is available. Watsonx
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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As far as modular GUI goes, I offered a few suggestions in this thread: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=838007#Post838007The idea is customizing existing Mixer Tab group panels to include just those things that user wants. User should be able to "detach" each tab and use it as it's own "floating" non-modal entity. Either reposition on single screen or move to secondary screen. Similarly this approach can be done for more compact tools like Shots, Holds, Rests, Partial regeneration dialog - combining existing two(!), Micro Chords, etc. For most of other items, large size Tab groups. I was glad to see Songs, Patches and Titles added to MTP, but it saddened me that "Lyrics" and "Chords" were added in same group. These do not belong in library. In my view, if PGM liked the tabbed idea, they should of build on that and have separate clusters of tabbed items. To future proof the idea, it should be made modular. For example any two or more items could be made into one tabbed cluster, as I shown in this video: -
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I am sorry, but I have to excuse myself from this conversation. I stopped seeing the main point of it. A apologise if I was a factor in that. As do I Misha. It was not my intent to upset you and if I did I apologize.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I am sorry too, got a bit hot. Mario, you are the last person in PGM world I would get upset of I guess, my position on the whole UI / Workflow is this: I believe it's very doable to fix existing bugs - all it will take is time and care. UI very likely could be made modular. It took Cakewalk good two years to rewrite everything in vector. I don't expect PGM to do it overnight. User opinions should be seriously weighted on, as they will be the ones using it. The most flexible options = less whining. It could be rolled out in stages. Main page, Track view, Piano roll view, etc. Aside from common sense bug fixing, clear worded, well sorted menus there should be a common denominator. One idea that could be applied to many different aspects of the program. Seems tabbed items, whether tools, buttons was/is popular with PGM: Tabbed tool bar on upper right, Mixer cluster, MTP. That could work for other areas too. As Robert suggested inspector like panel in one of the mock drawings, even that could be made into customizable tabbed group item that slides to the left when not needed into a thin strip. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/cJwhzghm/tabbedinsp.jpg)
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I believe it's very doable to fix existing bugs - all it will take is time and care. Yes ... and PGM's wilingness to do it. I do believe it's almost certainly a lot of work. It will take quite a lot of time and forethought and care. But yes, I'm also sure it's both doable and necessary. One of the biggest challenges seems to be convincing PGM of that.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Given how complex the program is it would be quite nice if there were presets on the GUI for different ways of using BIAB. For example, I *never* use it in a live setting so allow me to hide *all* features/screens/menus/etc. for live use. And I *never* use it for learning music so allow me to hide *all* music training features. Maybe provide a MIDI-mode where most of the screens & menus are MIDI and universal stuff. Likewise have a hide-all-MIDI option for those of us who never wish to use MIDI inside BIAB.
And one big point I'd like to make that has prolly been made before...improving the GUI *must* include *all* areas of the software! The main screen was improved a bit a few years ago but take a look at the Preferences window! OMG what a complex mess! This is a dialog screen that, in addition to a bunch of settings, also includes THIRTY BUTTONS that each launch their own dialog screen! My earlier suggestion to have presets would help here too because personally I will never need to touch about 95% of these settings and additional settings pages.
A new user will take one look at the Preferences screen and just give up! I am not a new user but here I am 12+ years later and I avoid even trying to deep dive and understand this screen!
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Given how complex the program is it would be quite nice if there were presets on the GUI for different ways of using BIAB. For example, I *never* use it in a live setting so allow me to hide *all* features/screens/menus/etc. for live use. And I *never* use it for learning music so allow me to hide *all* music training features. Maybe provide a MIDI-mode where most of the screens & menus are MIDI and universal stuff. Likewise have a hide-all-MIDI option for those of us who never wish to use MIDI inside BIAB.
And one big point I'd like to make that has prolly been made before...improving the GUI *must* include *all* areas of the software! The main screen was improved a bit a few years ago but take a look at the Preferences window! OMG what a complex mess! This is a dialog screen that, in addition to a bunch of settings, also includes THIRTY BUTTONS that each launch their own dialog screen! My earlier suggestion to have presets would help here too because personally I will never need to touch about 95% of these settings and additional settings pages.
A new user will take one look at the Preferences screen and just give up! I am not a new user but here I am 12+ years later and I avoid even trying to deep dive and understand this screen! YES, I Posted about earlier in this thread. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=837866#Post837866But I think First things that should be done, are the same things Rustyspoon# said "Bugs" and "half baked features". to me their not bugs but unfinished things (half baked features). I would say first the minor unfinished things then the main GUI, toolbars & window movement and placement. Then move on to Preferences and other things. I would think the first few things would be the easiest to accomplish. Everyone also please let's concentrate only what is in BiaB already and that could be made better. New features can come later. Robert
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......As Robert suggested inspector like panel in one of the mock drawings, even that could be made into customizable tabbed group item that slides to the left when not needed into a thin strip. Great I idea, we could even put the Preferences in there as well, currently when the Preferences window is open you cannot do anything else in BiaB. So let's put it there! Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/12/25 05:17 PM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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