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I've been playing around with some of the .MGUs from minor9.com, which are kind-of OK, but the MIDI instruments, even with VSTSynthFont aren't great, so I thought I'd switch to RealTrack styles. A big improvement in the sound, as expected, but they're loud in comparison with the MIDI and I needed to back off the volume of all the RealTracks by a large amount to get a remotely sensible mix.
I reckoned there should be a standard way to do that, so had a look around.
In both the Prefs->RealTracks dialog and the Prefs->RealDrums dialogs there are options "Global volume adjust", which sounds like the option. I tried it ... no obvious change!
I check the manual which says "Global volume adjust: You can apply an overall Volume Adjust to the RealTracks. If they are too loud overall, try a Global Volume Adjust of about -10 dB."
Well I've tried reducing boith right down to -100dB and they appear to do nothing.
Am I misunderstanding this, or do they actually not work?
What do others do in this situation, please?
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Gordon,
I've just tried the Global Adjust for Realtracks both with and without generation and it doesn't seem to work. There is also a Volume Adjust in Song Settings that doesn't seem to work, either. I've reported the information to the PG Music team and linked the team to your post. For the moment, it seems that the only way to fix your issue is to manually adjust each Realtrack.
--Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Hmmm. OK.
I started working through the changes one step at a time.
I opened the original .MGU with the MIDI, which started with the instrument gains all set to 90. I turned down the backing tracks to get a reasonably sensible balance, turned up the "master volume for this song only" to get a sensible volume and, whilst it was playing, clicked "Save". Immediately the volume went up right to the top of the red on the master meters. Fortunately my audio-interface volume was still set fairly low so no serious risk to ears.
I turned the individual tracks down again for sensible balance and saved again ... back to high volume, even thouigh the mixer controls still show my settings. What's a further puzzle is that sometimes the volume reduces as I'd expect, but sometimes not. I have yet to understand quite why. My particularly loud track is now setr - 36 on the mixer meters, but still pushes the master volumewell into the red., This individual tracks, however, now barely show any volume at all.
On a plus, though, if I now change to a RealTrack style the volumes are now sensible ... they go a little into the red but not insanely so.
This stuff just seems like basic fundamerntal operations, but appears to me substantially broken. Volumes should not be jumping aroujnd by 20sB just becasue I saved the MGU!
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Sigh ... I've just gone back to look at the settings for this song "volume boost".
In my tests, I set several reductions to see if they made any difference and I think they did not. However my last attemps was -50. That's outsiude of the -36 to +36 that the box allows. My -50 had turned into +12, so the value bounds checking for that setting is also broken.
My opinion on this at this moment is unprintable.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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Gordon,
Thanks for noting down all this extra stuff that you have found. Since I've passed on the link to this thread to PG Music, they will be able to read all that you have discovered.
--Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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It seems on the RealTracks dialog, out of range values are just blocked at -100 or 100
On RealDrums, a pop-up tells you the value is out of range.
On the song form it appears, knowingly or otherwise, to do some kind of calculation and uses whatever is left after the calculation.
The sanity-checking on the RealTracks and RealDrums dialogs is OK.
That on the Song Settings page is crass.
Sigh!
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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I can verify that the Global Volume Adjust in Preferences, RealTracks doesn't do anything on the build I’m using.
Just curious in case it's related, do you use the two sliders under the mixer? Those reduce the overall volume and output gain nicely.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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[quote=Matt FinleyJust curious in case it's related, do you use the two sliders under the mixer? Those reduce the overall volume and output gain nicely. [/quote]
Ah yes ... I didn't mention the build and should have ... this is the 2024 build 1111 shipped with the Audiophile update.
I do use those sliders, but they reduce all tracks, of course, and this started because Realtracks were so much louder that the MIDI tracks (and I mean maybe +20dB on that first song, though I'm seeing less now, I know not why. I'm still seeing MIDI little more than half the green band but RealTracks going well into the red.).
Both master sliders are presently set approximately 1/2 way across, at least partly because RealTracks were already so loud. I'd have expected to have them nearer 2/3, though whether what I expect correlates with what anyone else expects is another matter. I'll admit that I've never really been sure how the master volume This Song and the master voluse All Songs are supposed to interact. Two separate and different master volume controls seems almost an oxymoron to me.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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??
I do not notice most RTs being too loud, bu rather find myself needing to boost them to make them fit in the mix.
Is your MIDI source too soft?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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??
I do not notice most RTs being too loud, bu rather find myself needing to boost them to make them fit in the mix.
Is your MIDI source too soft? I think some of each, MIDI too soft, RTs too loud. The melody track is showing velocity 90 on the piano roll and vol 90 on the mixer. I have both master volume faders at around half scale and with those settings I get whole-mix volume meter readings mostly entirely in the green. My synth here is VSTSynthFont64 ... I wonder if that's a factor. When I switch to a RealTracks style, with the settings the same I get the master volume meters right up the top of red. But I also had that issue where I balanced the MIDI mix and saved the MGU whilst the song was playing and the volumes immediately jumped up to similar to the RTs. I balanced it again, saved again and tyhey jumped up again. I did it a thord time. Now all my mixer settings are around 36...40, my master volumes are midway for "All Songs" and around 2/3 for "This Song" and the master meters are topping the red again. Another time and the levels stay as I would expect. I try to find if it'a relaated to saving whilst the song is playing, but it appears inconsistent. There are jsut too many variables and too many oddities here to make any real sense of this at all. Hmmm ... I haven't yet tried an RTFS and I haven't yet tried rebooting Windows. I guess I'll try those tomorrow and they try again to work out exactly what changes and, as far as I can why. Then again, I have some work I need to finish, so I may just walk away again, at least for a while.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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I tried Windows reboot; no change.
I tried RTFS Most; no change.
I tried reverting to CoyoteWT; MIDI levels higher, closer to the RTs, but still a little low.
I tried VSTSynthFont64 with a different soundfont, lower again, though perhaps a little louder.
I tried reducing the mixer volumes (still MIDI) and saving, the first few reductions worked sensibly, the 3rd or 4th the volume jumped high again. This does appear to be related to saving whilst playing. If the song is playing, whether the volume jumps or reverts to normal seems to be substantially random. It's a much more conspicuous effect if the mixer levels are set low ... if they're around 90 the change is small, if they're around 40, the change is dramatic.
OK, I've just thought to try that last test again with CoyoteWT instead of VSTSynthFont64 and with CoyoteWT the level appears to Not change if I save whilst playing.
I went on to try similar with Garrita Aria Multi, which was very loud, but didn't change on saves when playing, I tried sforzando, but it's a nonsense as a default synth. That said, it didn't change volumes on save whilst playing.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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