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I am continually amazed at the amount of musical knowledge that is built into the BB / RB programs....I haven't seen anything like it or that comes close in doing what it does - for decades now. Maybe AI will finally come close, but AI is not really built "from the bits upward" as this program was designed. PG and his team are truly brilliant. It's one thing to have an "idea" of creating a band in a box - but to actually accomplish it - the extremely deep knowledge of both music and computer programming / hardware is nothing but extraordinary. You look at what it takes to do anything non-trivial with both of these specialties, and then how the BB/RB products consolidate them to make a whole so much bigger. And especially the musical knowledge and rules/patterns coded so deeply into the program. DAWs are also extraordinary - but they don't actually "compose" in the sense that BB does.
Unless there's software I have missed - this was and continues to be the best and only-one of it's class for 2+ decades now. What other software is there to look at in the space BB/RB occupy.
Also - if anyone has any links or articles that address what's in the spirit of this post - please share. For example I worked for a company many years ago where one individual built more or less an entire trading platform - truly a brilliant man, and the company was built around him and his product. Does anyone know if this is the case with Peter, or is he more the brilliant CEO manager who was more conceptual with a clear vision hired the big programming guns ? My guess is that he's the hands-on main creator. Are there any articles about the creation of this amazing program and the heavy hitters involved ?
Last edited by Joe Videtto2; 12/17/24 08:48 AM.
BB/RB 2025
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Very inciteful point thanks for your thoughts.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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There are a few programs out there that go a little way to what BiaB does, though none are remotely in the same class or remotely as powerful.
JJazzLab is quite good. MIDI only, I believe. Cordsheets only IIRC.
Impro-Visor ditto, but a slightly different intent. It will create improvised solos, one can enter notes in notation.
MMA (Musical MIDI acompaniment). It has no GUI itself and is entirely script driven, though there are a couple of OK-ish GUI front-ends by third parties.
Those do all have the advantage of being free or donation-ware. They do all run on Linux.
I hope PGM won't mind me putting them here ... my version of their own "dare to compare" page.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Amazing is a good description.
Over 30 years ago I purchased BIAB for MsDos on 5.25" floppy disks. I thought it was amazing back then when the midi sound was less than great.
Over the decades its gotten continually better and expanded the feature set.
Its been a major component of my music composition and performance for 20 years
Last few years I see others nipping at the corners of the niche PG music cut out for itself.
Yet no one has delivered a complete product that replaces BIAB.
Who knows when someone will?
Meantime, many of us have been fortunate to enjoy a long ride with this excellent product.
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS (Latest)
Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers
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Very nice post, Joe.
With over thirty years in the BIAB family I think I have read a few things to share.
Peter Gannon developed BIAB to be able to play along with jazz fakebooks. This explains some design decisions, such as the use of “chorus” in the jazz sense rather than intro, verse, chorus, bridge etc. That’s not right or wrong; it’s just the way it developed.
It is my understanding Peter is still doing the coding for BIAB. At one point maybe ten years ago I recall he said he used a Mac running Windows with one of those emulators.
Peter clearly knows music theory VERY well. He has sometimes made decisions different from what I might have done but he always has the evidence to back up his reasoning. Besides, if you get ten professional musicians in a room discussing music theory, you’ll often get six different answers - it’s a tough subject. And Peter is receptive to changing. For example, I had an issue about cut-time handling of sambas. He asked for proof which I gave and then programmed a way to handle cut time. This also helped the bluegrass players - same issue.
Peter also can talk tech. For example he just requested that anyone who made BIAB run on an SD card let him know the particulars.
I believe Peter plays bass, guitar and maybe piano, based on comments he has made. So we are talking about a musically hands-on programmer, to answer your question.
There are other programmers who work on the ancillary software like RealBand and the plugin. Adar and Jeff Yankhaur come to mind. Others like Tobin are heavily involved in the RealTracks part of the program. Andrew seems to do it all and is most visible in the forum and support areas. It’s a relatively small staff as we understand it.
Peter has a vision and carries it out. While it may not always be completely what some of want, he also comes up with things we never anticipated, like RealTracks, that are game changers.
Finally, despite some phenomenal breakthroughs in music software like unbaking a cake, I’m not aware of anything remotely able to compete with BIAB.
Does that help?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I have been a casual BIAB user since the floppy drive was the thing. For all the things I like and dislike about the software, there is certainly nothing I have seen over the years that does what BIAB does.
There are programs like EZkeys for example that provide a different way to create a piano track but they don't really compete with BIAB.
BIAB is the base source for most of us. We may use Real Tracks or convert everything to midi.
There are so many other ways to use BIAB than creating songs no other program that I have ever seen can do the same thing or even near it.
BIAB is more than just a computer program. There is a group of people who provide help services, sell us things, and come here on this forum to interact with us. On that fact alone you will find it hard to get that kind of involvement from very many companies.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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I have never found anything quite as complete as BIAB when it comes to putting together complete tracks that sound great. That's why I keep sending my money every December for the past 12+ years!
However, I do really love the EZ lineup from Toontrack. I have their EZ Bass, EZ Keys and EZ Drummer products and find them to be quite capable even compared to BIAB bass, keys and drums. I often create songs in BIAB and then sub out some or all of these parts with their EZ counterparts because they sound great and are editable MIDI. I think what Toontrack is missing is more melodic instruments like guitars, horns, etc.
If Toontrack were to add melodic instruments, build an aggregator GUI and curate their tracks into style sets they would have a very competitive product to BIAB. But, as a good friend of mine likes to say, "IF the dog hadn't stopped to do his business he'd have caught the rabbit!"
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...I believe Peter plays bass, guitar and maybe piano,... Yes, Peter definitely plays piano. I've seen a video of him performing at NAMM.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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One important thing I left out of my PG BB RB love is the amount of musical information not just in the program itself, but the amount of "musical knowledge" in the musical content itself. You have playing and recordings of the best studio musicians in the world - and hundreds of hours (if not thousands ?) of each. And almost all of it is notated and played back on a staff with color coding. And so, so, so many different styles authored by experts in their musical field....just to separate the usefulness of the program from the human-generated musical recordings and accompaniments underneath...all fitting together like a glove.
BB/RB 2025
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<...snip...>
Unless there's software I have missed - this was and continues to be the best and only-one of it's class for 2+ decades now. What other software is there to look at in the space BB/RB occupy.
<...> I don't think anything else comes close. I've been writing aftermarket styles for BiaB since the 1990s. I've also written styles for a couple of other auto-accompaniment apps, and an arranger keyboard. None of these came close to the output of BiaB. PG Music continues to impress me by making relevant improvements to BiaB that make it better and more useful through the years. It's come a long way from the DOS-5 days with 3 instruments, and no user styles, endings, or anything else. Hats off to Peter Gannon and the entire PG Music team. Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
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We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
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Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
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Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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