Today I wasted a few more hours trying to determine in which areas is BiaB 2025 could be any better than 2024. For me. I do appreciate that for some people some new features could be essential. I just want the basic functionality to be accessible and usable.
I ordered the full downloadable Audiophile update. So all my audio files are now .flac. I decided to keep my old "Drums" and "RealTracks" folders just in case I needed to revert to Audiophile 2024. So I renamed these 2 folders BEFORE installing the full Audiophile 2025. Everything is brand new, but I do not have any .wma or .wav Realtrack accessible to BiaB.
BiaB standalone works. Same old bugs and a bunch of new ones. Perhaps more usable than 2024. No need for pre-rendering is a definitive advantage.
Then I gave an opportunity to the DAW plugin. It simply doesn't work with .flac only files! I cannot put the instructions to render audio into Reaper if audio is in the new format!
I could not believe it. I renamed folders to have my older .wav and .wma files accessible and now DAW plugin works. Much worse than last year. There is zero advantage in the pre-rendering because this functionality is not there. Reverted to 2025 .flac tracks and same thing, does not work. At all. When I click "send to Reaper" it takes moderate time (like normal time to generate all wavs), then it generates "charts" (on the right side), then I get a message saying "There are currently no WAV or MIDI tracks to play. Would you like to generate tracks to play in the plugin?. Then again.
Well, this is when I tick "Use Reaper Instructions". If I also tick "Render Wav and instructions", then it is even funnier. It takes the time to generate the .wav files in folder G:\bb\BBPlugin\SavedTracks but when sending to Reaper it starts sending DOZENS of empty tracks (about 3 each second). Each one opening a window asking to also import or not tempo maps. After opening some ~100 tracks and emerging windows, Reaper crashes (Congratulations, this is quite an achievement!).
If I revert to wav + wma it works like last year. Pre-auditioning is unusable (it was usable in 2024 version, I suspect it's an incompatibility with sampling rate but I won't debug it). But rendered files look more or less like last year.
.flac real tracks are properly installed and they work as expected in BiaB standalone (my expectations are not too high). So the problem is not related to installation. In fact the DAW plugin put all the correct audio infomration in G:\bb\BBPlugin\SavedTracks, which means .flac files were found and used.
To me it looks as if none in PGMusic took the time to test 2025 DAW plugin with the default Audiophile install (.flac, without any WMA or WAV). But I do not care at this point what's the root cause. My fault? Possibly.
Finally I decided to test an alternative method: DAW Plugin Standalone. Again it does not go well with .flac-only files. If I tick to generate "WAV instructions", nothing is generated. If I tick "WAV and instructions" it works, of course it stores new garbage in G:\bb\BBPlugin\SavedTracks. But (as the plugin) the audio engine does not work well. There are so many clicks, apparently regular (not totally random) distanced some 1/16 notes (I guess the length of audio chunks in BiaB). The rendered files in G:\bb\BBPlugin\SavedTracks are OK, but the plugin (standalone or accessed through a DAW) is full of such clicks.
My system is rock-solid for ALL of the many audio apps I use (including BiaB standalone and BiaB plugin 2024). Up to >200 tracks in orchestral pieces. No problem mixing a few CPU-heavy synths with some 100 orchestral tracks. But BiaB plugin got my system clicking as hell for the first time in so long time. Again quite an acievement.
For the record, the pluging (inside Reaper) uses the ASIO driver (6.4ms, PCI card) and the "standalone plugin" uses Windows driver at 10ms. Both are perfectly fine for anything I throw inside Reaper (using ASIO) or Windows (most standalone synths in my system are set to use Windows by default).
I think that's too much for me. BiaB 2024 (combined with some scripts to interface Reaper) is good enough to do the job when I need a tool like this. But learning how to use a future BiaB 2025 once the main bugs are solved is not worth the time investment when other tools simply work. Life is too short, I want to make some music in my spare time. If BiaB works for other people, I am happy for them but my experience as an user has been terrible.
That's quite an experience you have been through. After reading your story, there is one thing that is unclear to me. You mention at the beginning that you downloaded the Audiophile update. Does this mean that you downloaded the 30GB of new material that BIAB 2025 has (that the 2024 version of the program did not), or did you download the 610 GB entire Audiophile edition of the program?
If it was the 30GB of new material that you downloaded, I'm guessing that BIAB still needs to access your 2024 Realtracks and Realdrums to work properly. From the sounds of things, these seem to be in a different location.
That's quite an experience you have been through. After reading your story, there is one thing that is unclear to me. You mention at the beginning that you downloaded the Audiophile update. Does this mean that you downloaded the 30GB of new material that BIAB 2025 has (that the 2024 version of the program did not), or did you download the 610 GB entire Audiophile edition of the program?
If it was the 30GB of new material that you downloaded, I'm guessing that BIAB still needs to access your 2024 Realtracks and Realdrums to work properly. From the sounds of things, these seem to be in a different location.
Regards, --Noel
It is the full update ("2025 Audiophile from 2024 Audiophile"), the one listed as $169. Yes, the full 610GB.
You are totally right with your question. I guess that this "flac-only" version triggers the problems and make this case untested. I decided to go for this version because downloading is not a problem for me and for $20 extra I would not need to convert my 2024 WAV files to take full advantage of the new format (smaller size). And install process should be much cleaner installing from a single source.
I’m not disputing anything you have said but I’m unsure of one thing you stated because I went another route with the $199 audiophile SSD. The downloadable full audiophile version was only recently made available after Rustyspoon volunteered to test it. This was not available in beta testing 2025, as you suspected.
It is my understanding from several weeks ago that PG Music had decided to keep the WMA files in the audiophile version. The reason I understood was that they do take less space than Flac files, and someone might want a ‘light’ installation on one computer’s internal drive. Then they could connect a USB drive to get Flac files for a final production.
After many questions from us about whether and how to remove the WAV files no longer needed, and/or remove the WMA files if no longer wanted, I don’t know what was sent to you. Could you look inside one of your new RealTracks folders and see if you have both Flac and WMA, or just Flac, and let us know?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I’m not disputing anything you have said but I’m unsure of one thing you stated because I went another route with the $199 audiophile SSD. The downloadable audiophile was only recently made available and was not available in beta testing 2025.
It is my understanding that PG Music had decided to keep the WMA files in the audiophile version. The reason I understood was that they do take less space than Flac files, and someone might want a ‘light’ installation on one computer’s internal drive.
After many questions from us about what to do to remove the WAV files no longer needed, and/or remove the WMA files if no longer wanted, I don’t know what was sent to you. Could you look inside one of your new RealTracks folders and see if you have both Flac and WMA, or just Flac, and let us know?
With FLAC ONLY it does not work. With Wav + wma it DOES work.
If I were a 2025 Audiophile user I'd be concerned what the plugin is using. Perhaps you (or somebody) could test and have a look at the spectrum (.fft) of a song (or single drums track) when using the DAW plugin. Perhaps the plugin is using WMA.
The reason I understood was that they do take less space than Flac files, and someone might want a ‘light’ installation on one computer’s internal drive.
I have essentially that set-up. My desktop PC has the full audiophile installation, my laptop for practice has only the .wma files.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Thanks for finding that, I checked my Reaper source files and it's using wma and I have the Audiophile with wma/flac I don't know what the main Biab app is using, it has *.WAV in the path in a frozen SGU so it could also be using wma rather than flac ?
When I use the script to import a frozen SGU I can set it to the file format I want, and it will show in Reaper, but the Plugin don't show the file format:
parapente, Sorry to hear about your issues. I must admit, I never tested Flac only with plugin or RB for that matter. BIAB main program runs fine. I use it almost daily and didn't notice anything of concern as far as Flac goes.
Yeah, I think your experience is unacceptable, but give it a few days. I have seen on a few occasions they released hot fixes in a very timely manner. Let's see what PGM says. Perhaps it's an easy fix. Flac was a major change, I am sure it's in their interest to make things work.
With FLAC ONLY it does not work. With Wav + wma it DOES work.
Yes, you did. Thank you for confirming that PG Music apparently did change their approach and did not include WMA in the new full audiophile download. This is news.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
With FLAC ONLY it does not work. With Wav + wma it DOES work.
Yes, you did. Thank you for confirming that PG Music apparently did change their approach and did not include WMA in the new full audiophile download. This is news.
I can bring some light to the topic. An "only flac file version" install of Realtracks will not work with both in the BB and in the plugin. This was reported in pre-release and confirmed by PGM as an invalid installation method. (that fix is pending the Holiday break) I use the plugin with .flac files with no issues. The only working installation that works is to install both the .flac and .wma files and more importantly the .db0 and db1 files required to make the entire thing work. If you look in your Realtracks directory for a particular instrument and see only .flac files you have a improper installation. If you have the shipped disk, run the .wma installation on top of your .flac installation and it will fix the problem.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Flac only BIAB works OK for me. I did a clean install of downloadable version. There must be an issue with Plugin + Flac.
You have .flac + .bt files. The .bt file must be there.
There is a just .flac file option in the shipped disk version that only installs .flac and in that case nothing works. This has been confirmed by PGM.
It takes both .flac and .bt files.
I have only .flac + .wma + .bt and the plugin works with .flac.
There is definitely installation errors with the shipped disc version and most likely issues with the minimal number of files in the Real-track directory for the plug-in.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
With FLAC ONLY it does not work. With Wav + wma it DOES work.
Yes, you did. Thank you for confirming that PG Music apparently did change their approach and did not include WMA in the new full audiophile download. This is news.
I can bring some light to the topic. An "only flac file version" install of Realtracks will not work with both in the BB and in the plugin. This was reported in pre-release and confirmed by PGM as an invalid installation method. (that fix is pending the Holiday break) I use the plugin with .flac files with no issues. The only working installation that works is to install both the .flac and .wma files and more importantly the .db0 and db1 files required to make the entire thing work. If you look in your Realtracks directory for a particular instrument and see only .flac files you have a improper installation. If you have the shipped disk, run the .wma installation on top of your .flac installation and it will fix the problem.
I did buy "Audiophile 2024 to 2025", which is supposed to include ALL the contents, ~600GB (not ~30GB). Downloadable. WITHOUT wma or wav. I did not install anything especial. It includes the .flac files and many auxiliary files, not only WAVs or WMAs. I did NOT delete anything from a recommended installation. I did not move anything. In fact this is the reason why I bought this pack ($169) instead of the Audiophile plus pack ($149). To make 100% sure I have a clean, standalone installation with reduced size.
Just in case I just KEPT my old folders in a different location. And it turns out that this is related to the bug. Alpha testing for free. You're welcome.
Please read the post above your post. So between the three of us, we installed it with three different versions/ways My post reflect issues with the shipped disk version which you did not buy.
There is clearly a bug with the plug-in if it does not find at least a .bt .flac and .wma file.
That combination works fine for me on my system.
The developer for the plug-in his on holiday and I’m sure he will address it immediately when returning.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
Flac only BIAB works OK for me. I did a clean install of downloadable version. There must be an issue with Plugin + Flac.
You have .flac + .bt files. The .bt file must be there.
There is a just .flac file option in the shipped disk version that only installs .flac and in that case nothing works. This has been confirmed by PGM.
It takes both .flac and .bt files.
I have only .flac + .wma + .bt and the plugin works with .flac.
There is definitely installation errors with the shipped disc version and most likely issues with the minimal number of files in the Real-track directory for the plug-in.
Interesting point. I checked to see what I have in my Realtracks. I do have .flac and .bt1 files in many folders. "Holds" folders also have .bt0 and other extensions. In my case, with everything installed as it comes from PGM (without wma) it does not work.
Apparently the download version works exactly as the option you describe (.flac file option). It is the simplest explanation for me. Which leaves me wondering if the plugin ever worked with flac.
Apparently not with the Downloadable only versions. Good catch and I’m sure the developer will fix it immediately upon returning.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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