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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 92
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 92 |
I'm glad to see your remarks about the BA-330, I'm seriously considering getting one. I left a message in the general message forum I guess I should have searched first. Duh..
Dell Studio 16 Laptop i7 with 256 gig SSD
BIAB, Reaper, Encore, Sibelius
Roland SD-50
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
The Bose L-1 has Stereo inputs, but they are indeed summed to mono and run through the single channel power amps to one set of speakers.
Those who want true Stereo would have to incorporate 2 Bose L-1 systems to get it. This is indeed an expensive proposition, but does sound very nice.
Yes, it would be less expensive to go with a more standardized type of setup to yield rue stereo onstage, stereo output mixer with stereo power amp and dual speaker system.
That said, many people are quite happy with a single L-1 or L-1 Compact Bose system, trading off the difference of no Stereo output for the ease of obtaining great sound, no need for a monitoring system and portability that is next to none.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 100
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 100 |
I have 2 Bose 802 speakers and stands and a Yamaha EMX 5014C Stereo 500W/channel Powered mixer. I also have two 1-15/horn Kustom cabinets for larger venues. I use BIAB from computer (earphone jack)for the flexibility and it serves me well... I was using the Coyote WT softsynth until last week when I downloaded the 30-day trial of Coyote Forte DXi...man what a difference! I will pay the $40...
I have never liked the sound of BIAB Bass through the mixer...or for that matter my electric Bass through the mixer. I prefer taking my bass amp to the gig. All that to ask how to route the BIAB Bass through the Bass Amp? The amp is already on the gig anyway. I play Trumpet, Bass, functional Keys and Sing in a duo (not at the same time, Ha!) I am thinking that would help the difference in sound when I put the bass down to play trumpet, etc...the Bose sound great and produce wonderful bass but there is a noticable difference when I play through my amp,
I have played with a couple of different "Rock" type groups using the Bose towers and thought they were awfully expensive for the performance...lots of feedback at higher volumes. I think they were a bad choice for those groups. Probably great for a single or duo in a smaller room or restaurant (ambiance) setting.
Sorry for the rambling post...I will do better next time!;)
Ken
Blessings!
Ken Hicks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182 |
Mixers and sound systems are designed to accurately produce the signal that is applied. Bass/guitar amps are designed to add signal strength through a pre amp and make it sound like a bass or guitar. You are comparing apples and oranges.
BIAB should sound great via computer plugged into studio monitors or a good PA. If it doesn't sound good something is wrong with the PA or you have a poor sound card. My goal is to have my PA sound as good as my studio monitors and it does. I use a Samson 500 watt all in one stereo rig that weighs 50 pounds for everything (mixer/amp plus 2 cabinets). This PA will run everything unless you are playing a really large venue. I would not hesitate to play my bass through this rig - it has more power than my bass amp. For good guitar sound you would need a guitar pre/effectrs pedal. Think of the PA as your studio monitor - designed for power and greater coverage.
Try your existing rig with some modern PA speakers and you will be pleasantly surprized. I suspect that Bose doesn't match up well (impedaqnce full range flat response etc) with the Yamaha. I also own the Yamaha 500 watt system and it sounds great through good speakers. If this doesn't work get a decent sound card.
We quit caryuing the PC years ago and mix everything down to a MP3 player that fits in my shirt pocket. The sound is as good or better than the headphone out of your PC.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 238
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 238 |
I have only done a couple of gigs (as I am just an amateur musician, LOL) but I own a Bose L1 II w/T1 ToneMatch, (and I have tried a Compact once which was also very nice... [btw, the Model I has been discontinued as far as I know... and has a Big and heavy base unit... and doesn't work well with a T1).
I use a regular run-of-the-mill SONY laptop which is more than sufficient for my BIAB 2011. I don't need to use my usual TASCAM Audio Interface that I use when I use my Desktop PC, because the ToneMatch also has a built-in USB Interface... I also use the KETRON SD2 Midi Synthezier to convert those nice midi tracks into excellent, realistic sounds...
What I like most about using this setup (i.e. BIAB w/notebook) on stage is the ability to read the notes (I play Jazz guitar... mostly solos and some guitar comp sections, and BIAB plays everything else...) is:
1. I just can't memorize all the notes to resort to using the mp3 versions... I need to read the notes on the go...
2. Making mp3 renditions is quite tedious/cumbersome when using the KETRON box as I will have to use the Realband and record each instrument on a separate track, one at a time, in real time... This takes way too much time when preparing for a whole playlist for a gigset...
My only issue is VOLUME!
What I mean is, for some reason the volume can vary from song to song, and so far I haven't been able to figure out a good way to notmalize this... I either make a note about the volume level adjustments, or have a friend/soundman adjust the volume while I play...
With the T1, I only use 2 inputs: 1) The Sound coming from the PC via USB, and 2) the KETRON (I use a USB midi cable that goes to my KETRON and use RCA cables to bring the sound into the T1 for all the midi tracks).
Sometimes, I plug my guitar directly into the T1... but mostly I prefer my small Fender amp...
One final comment about the lack of Stereo sound from the BOSE L1 systems... just remember that on stage every instrument is MONO... you have a guitar player with an amp, a base player with its own amp, etc.... for the audience they "see" the sound from each player coming from a single source... So if the Bose system is used properly, i.e. each performer has his/her own bose unit... it should be no problem... In a one-man-show, I find the Bose also fabulous, can't tell the difference. People love the sound, and most importantly, in small rooms, I don't have to crank up the volume too high as people in the front and the back all hear the same thing...
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182 |
To each his own but I really prefer BIAB tracks in stereo. With good panning of instruments it makes a huge diference - to me. To a large exttent I play for personal enjoyment and I have never heard a great sounding mono piano. As a guitar player I can sit in the middle of the mix. all tracks are panned to some degree except bass. Live real musicians create a stereo mix by the placement of their instruments on a stage. Even a mono instrument like guitar sounds best recorded and played back in stereo due to accoustic environment it is played in and the sound of room.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
I agree about loving the Stereo Piano sound myself, but I have also tried it both ways onstage and found out that the audience doesn't really notice any difference, only I do. Of course, there is good reason to satisfy yourself on the gigs as well. Just pointing out something interesting I've discovered using BiaB live over the years.
I also tried using different MIDI synth solutions as well and found much the same from my audiences, even at one point trying to poll some of my known good musician friends as to what they thought about the MIDI sounds on my gigs -- and the answers were all over the place, no way to pinpoint any single synth. I came to the conclusion that a lot of this type of thing must be truly subjective. One fellow whom I used to play with in a quartet and has pretty good ears told me that he didn't like the sound of the VSC DXi but preferred the sound of a much older set of samples that came out of an old Roland SC-55 hardware soundcanvas. I then set BB to use the VSC DXi but left a MIDI connect from keyboard Thru to the SC-55 so he could see its blinking as I played the next song. He thought he was hearing the hardware synth he saw blinking and not the software synth and thus was certain it sounded better to him. I didn't tell him, just chalked it up to the learning experience for myself (grin).
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
... All that to ask how to route the BIAB Bass through the Bass Amp?
Hi Ken,
User silvertones has accomplished much by using a multi-channel output soundcard and playing his BiaB songs back using RealBand live onstage rather than BiaB, because BiaB can only address one stereo output channel at a time. In RealBand, he can route each track to a different set of audio outputs on the multichannel card, thus a Bass track could be routed to a different amp. The level of complexity for use on a live gig goes up eponentially, but silvertones has proven success with the method.
Another way, that wouldn't require purchase, setup and shakedown of the multichannel sound device nor having to switch to RealBand on the gig would be to pick up an Electronic Crossover and place it between the BiaB earphone jack (which is really identical to an unbalanced Line Output in voltage, etc.) and your amplifiers.
Set the crossover to be a simple Low Pass on the side which you will route to your Bass amp, with the other side, which would contain all the rest of the music, routed to your mixer.
You would, of course, have to experiment with the Crossover settings, the Low Pass frequency point being critical here, and you would likely also have to put up with any "stray" kick drum hits which might be below that Crossover point and thus come out of the Bass amp as well. This may not be a kill, hoever and might be desirable in certain contexts or genres.
Now comes the part that you probably won't want to hear:
*If the BB songs are mixed properly, they should play back very well indeed through the PA system as-is.
*Problems may be due to the mixing inside BB, may be due to Gain Staging (using the soundcard on the laptop and BB, I always make sure that the sound device's Control Panel mixer applet has all outputs that BB uses TURNED ALL THE WAY UP when playihg live or mixing, using only the gain faders on the live amplifier to set the level. This is because an audio Line input loves to be driven, hard, but doing the opposite, attempting to "suck" gain at the mixer side, will result in a louder but "thinner" sound.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 123
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 123 |
Mac is totally right about stereo on a live gig. Imagine the distance of an audience from the performer,(usually at least 8 metres)depending on the distance which seperates the left & right speakers & the extent of stereo used at the mixing desk most of the stereo information is gone anyway (therefore useless). Most FOH mixers try to keep the mix as mono as possible to eliminate any phase problems of the hall & like I said (in this case) stereo is useless. I am of course only talking about a live gig here, recordings are obviously stereo. Listen to Mac, stereo means next to nothing for the audience & is just a musicians indulgence live
Last edited by bupper; 04/23/11 10:55 AM.
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