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Joined: Aug 2011
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Aug 2011
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This is very in-depth and can be very boring, but it is very detailed when it come to A.I. and the copyright office. Top Music Attorney On Copyright Law For AI Creations.
Music is an expression that is a universal language, Never criticize anybody to harshly. They need time to grow but when they do, they do. Always be kind in what you say and do because the man upstairs is watching.
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Krystal Delgado seems to take forever to cut to the chase but her videos cram as much info as possible and are quite informative. Fortunately, this one spares us the guy who asks stupid questions — those are never as good as these.
I was one of the many who commented on the recent LOC report she referred to. In addition, I worked on the 1976 revision of Title 17 a lifetime ago.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Joined: Mar 2025
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Mike, I have followed with interest your many posts here on the topic of copyright, publishing, distribution, etc.
I have a specific question regarding "publishing" a work. I typically make demos of my original tunes and songs that are not "produced final product" that I intend to record properly in the future. If I upload these and share my recordings with a handful of people using a secret link on SoundCloud, are these then considered "published"? I have heard you say that the copyright owner has the right of first performance. Would this online posting be considered equivalent to "performance".
My motivation in asking this question is two-fold:
(1) I want to share my demos with musicians who may work on the final track
(2) I want to protect my interest in the work
Any guidance here is much appreciated
Last edited by dynac0mp; 03/26/25 09:26 PM.
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Mike, I have followed with interest your many posts here on the topic of copyright, publishing, distribution, etc.
I have a specific question regarding "publishing" a work. I typically make demos of my original tunes and songs that are not "produced final product" that I intend to record properly in the future. If I upload these and share my recordings with a handful of people using a secret link on SoundCloud, are these then considered "published"? I have heard you say that the copyright owner has the right of first performance. Would this online posting be considered equivalent to "performance".
My motivation in asking this question is two-fold:
(1) I want to share my demos with musicians who may work on the final track
(2) I want to protect my interest in the work
Any guidance here is much appreciated I'm not a lawyer but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express so maybe that qualifies me to speak on things I don't exactly have all the answers to? With that said...... So.....Publishing is essentially making something public. Copyright is considered automatic upon the initial recording into a "tangible" form. That is not to be confused with the copyright registration with the US LOC. Is posting online considered a "first performance"? I'm not a lawyer but I would think it would be. Lawyers thrive in the grey areas of the law and your example is in a grey area. Online but private.......Anyone wanting to cover that would necessarily require a license from you the copyright owner and publisher. You can deny the license. Protecting your work.... Best way.... don't post it if you're shopping the demo. Get a US LOC copyright if you are going to self publish. Your outside publisher will do the copyright paperwork if they agree to handle the song and sign the agreement with you to do so. That's literally how I have done it for the past however many years. I let the publisher handle the copyrights. Regarding the topic of the thread..... If you wrote it, you can copyright it. If it's AI in any way or shape in the creative process, that is not eligible for US LOC copyright protection at this point in time. It doesn't mean you can't use it commercially, it's just that you can't legally protect your music with a copyright. It means that anyone can use it and they don't have to pay you and there's essentially little to nothing that you can do about it. The way I look at AI is that it's pretty much equivalent to public domain music. regarding (1) & (2)..... only share with people, writers, and publishers you trust completely.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Thank you for that, Guitarhacker!
You've provided some good food for thought.
I wouldn't say I'm "shopping a demo" as much as looking for compatible musicians for a proper collaboration to make a "demo that pops", however, you bring up a point that I haven't considered. Perhaps I should look for a relationship with a publisher and see if they have interest for the kind of thing that I do. As far as I knew, the 'record business' has been turned on it's head during my lifetime, but maybe there's a place for me in one of the more traditional avenues that is still traveled.
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...and just to give you some background... I had many tunes posted on SoundCloud (and Reverbnation years back) for streaming only, that I would have just because it's hard to share with others any other way. When you say "I'm a songwriter", or "I have instrumental compositions", you need to show something tangible or else you are considered just another guy that plays out of tune at Guitar Center.
I have experience with the LOC and have registered works in the past using form SR, so I agree with your advice in this regard.
Since reading some of these posts, I have pulled all my music offline and have decided to place a higher value on my work. Taste being subjective and all, I plan to value my craft moving forward. Reading the posts here has been encouraging.
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..... Perhaps I should look for a relationship with a publisher and see if they have interest for the kind of thing that I do. Publishers do not want unfinished demos. They want professionally recorded and produced songs. Your "demo" should be radio ready quality. It's easier to get the song cut if it sounds pro right from the start. It can be a simple vocal with a piano as long as it is radio ready quality. I'd never even consider sending them an unfinished demo that sounds like it was recorded in the corner of a room in your house.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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For the most part , Herb saved me the keystrokes and his advice is sound.
You asked whether a private download site is considered Publishing. That is a $600hr question for an IP attorney to answer after knowing all the details of your situation. BTW, Herb’s recommendation about filing a PA Published is safe. I cannot point to case law on this and for me to give an opinion is the same as attempting to practice law and, not being an attorney, I will not do this.
Posting on a secret site would certainly have me registering a work with the LOC.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Very good. Thanks so much for all the responses here! I have a friend who is a music business attorney and I think it's best for me to get a personal consult. Everyone's situation is different.
On a separate note...
I have always recorded my music playing all the parts myself, looking forward to getting the tune tracked by better players. I suppose that's why so many songwriters are using BIAB, so that they can shop a polished demo to publishers?
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