Hello OldMuso, DrDan, AudioTrack, and MarioD (in chronological order of posts I haven't yet replied to ;-)
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions!
I note that I have three new avenues to explore (if I understand correctly): - Analyzing my computer's performance via Task Manager (AudioTrack) - Checking whether or not there's stuttering when I make a MIDI recording with RealBand (OldMuso) - Checking that my Clavinova CVP 307 isn't creating a MIDI loop because the local control isn't set to Off (MarioD).
I'm currently short on time (I'm an amateur musician with other professional activities!), but I'll gradually run these tests and keep you posted on the results.
There's a lot in this thread, so apologies if I miss anything or repeat something others have said.
Originally Posted by Lazy Bird
This screenshot is from 2025, correct? Can we get a screenshot of the same window but from your 2020 version?
My assumption is that the problem comes down to these settings. In this image you've got the MIDI input and output set to the same device. This could cause a feedback loop, which could easily cause stutter (particularly if the keyboard has local control enabled, or if the MIDI is plugged into MIDI Thru instead of MIDI Out). Try disabling Local Control on the keyboard itself, or try selecting Microsoft GS Wavetable - and if that works better, select "No MIDI/sound output" then enable "Use VSTi/DXi Synth", click "VSTi/DXi Synth" and choose CoyoteWT from the list.
Sorry I haven't responded to your last messages yet, but I haven't been inactive because Andrew (PG Music) privately sent me previous versions of Band in a Box for testing.
What emerges is that the stuttering issue with Band in a Box, which I didn't have with my 2020 version, already appears with the 2021 version. And, as you know, the 2021 version is the first version with the 16 additional utility tracks.
Andrew agrees with you that there's a MIDI loop creating a conflict and like you, he also advised me to switch to Local Control Off. ...So I unchecked the "Song," "Style," "Left," "R1," and "R2" parameters in the "Local Control" row of my Clavinova CVP 307 (screenshot below). I don't know if this is the correct way to turn Local Control Off on a Clavinova CVP 307, but in any case, it didn't change the problem: Band in a Box started stuttering again when I played with the MIDI Input Driver enabled.
But I also did an interesting experiment: I tested Band in a Box 2025 by connecting it to a very basic portable piano (Yamaha P45) and playing with the MIDI Input Driver and MIDI Output Driver enabled (screenshot below). And I didn't get any stutters from Band in a Box!
It seems to me that this confirms what you suspected: the problem isn't just with Band in a Box, but with BOTH Band in a Box 2021-2025 and my Clavinova CVP 307.
To move forward, I still have to do the other two tests you suggested (Task Manager and Realband)... but maybe PG Music will find the source of the problem first :-)!
The Yamaha CVP-307 shares manuals with the CVP-309. Manuals are available from Yamaha +++ HERE +++ . You may want to download the user manual and look at pages 196 - 200.
Here is part of what the manual says about local control:
Quote
Turns the Local Control for each part on or off. When Local Control is set to “ON,” the keyboard of the instrument controls its own (local) internal tone generator, allowing the internal voices to be played directly from the keyboard. If you set Local to “OFF,” the keyboard and controllers are internally disconnected from the instrument’s tone generator section so that no sound is output when you play the keyboard or use the controllers.
Thanks LB for your feedback. Moreover, it's great that Andrew has been assisting you in the background also, it's very professional of him to provide that additional support.
Definitely keep us in the 'loop'! Inquiring minds need to know
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
Because I haven't read through all the messages, this might have already been suggested. My apologies if that's the case.
I notice that you are using the WAS driver. A few years ago (I can't remember how long it was), I had trouble with MIDI playback using WAS. What fixed it for me was to disable "Output always on" option (shown by steps 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5) in the attached image.
I suspect that this will not help the problem you are experiencing, but it is worth trying.
Additionally, in the Resource Monitor, you can keep certain tasks at the top of the display by placing a tick in the check box at the left hand side of the display.
Hello everyone,
I'm resuming the tests... in chronological order of suggestions not yet tried :-).
First, the analysis of my computer's resource usage.
Here are the screenshots I took while playing Band in a Box 2020, with which I don't have any problems, and Band in a Box 2025, with which I still have these stuttering issues.
In both cases, the "Processus" window was scanned twice: the first time before the song started and the second time after the song started.
I don't have the technical skills to analyze all of this, but I notice that Band in a Box 2025 takes up much more RAM! Otherwise, it doesn't seem to me that there are any major differences... What do you think?
DrDan/All. ... @LB...another test you can run is to invoke RB (realband) that you have .... happiness to all. om
Hello again everyone,
I'm coming to the test with Realband 2025 suggested by OldMuso... but in a simplified version because I'm unable to master or even understand all of its suggestions :-)
Since the piece I've been testing so far (NICA'S DREAM) is very complicated (there are style changes, etc.) and Realband took several minutes to load and had difficulty playing the different tracks correctly, I tested with an SGU file composed only of a succession of simple chords (see screenshots).
Results when playing chords with the MIDI Input Driver enabled: - with Band in a Box 2025: the usual stutters, - with Realband 2025: no stutters!
I don't know what to conclude from this, except that Band in a Box 2025 doesn't handle MIDI exactly like Band in a Box 2020 and Realband ;-).
1..i notice from your pc task bar you have the internet enabled ?? please confirm. tell me with bb 2025 if no stutters occur when the net is disabled. NOTE...read my tips in the forum re why i sandbox my music pc from the net. i use a seperate pc for the net because ive seen over the years internet activities can interfere with music creation apps.
2..re rb load time. here realband loads in just a few secs. so i suspect your pc needs optimising and cleaning up. please also post back how long this pc takes to boot from cold. ie you turn on power..how long for desktop to appear ? here just a few secs. the fact that rb has probs with one file and not another indicates to me...that...possibly there is some prob with that file.
3..in realband ACTION>>TEST AUDIO PERFORMANCE tell me how many tracks are reported. its just another piece of info re your pc. over 200 is very good.
4..please also run the following utility which will assess the suitability of your pc for music production and give clues from the report re drivers etc. lets be thorough. ideally one needs to use a pc with internal low microsound latency. my own music production pc has ultra low microsecond latency.
5..i notice in your task bar lots of icons. here i have only 2 ie..bb and rb. heres why. over the years ive seen a common problem on users pc's being used for music production is they are running a ton of apps. ie everything but the kitchen sink...lol. in summary if you have loads of other non music apps on this pc.. eg net and home finances and everything under the sun this can lead to probs. its best to run household non music apps on a seperate pc. another pc like a refurbished one can be had for under 200 dollars. i have one here for running household apps.
finally as someone mentioned upthread bb 2025 likely needs more pc resources resources than 2020. so given all the other things going on your pc this might create a tipping point re resources and thus stuttering occuring. its difficult to say without being there.
anyhoo please post back what latency monitor says re this pc and also rb reported track counts. please note over the years of useing a pc lots of junk builds up. and like a house a major cleanup is often needed.
ps this song file that is problematic (NICAS DREAM ??) could you post it somewhere so other users can look at it on their own pc's running bb and rb ??
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/19/2505:13 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
LB...some points. 1..i notice from your pc task bar you have the internet enabled ?? ... 2..re rb load time. here realband loads in just a few secs. ... 3..in realband ACTION>>TEST AUDIO PERFORMANCE tell me how many tracks are reported. ... 4..please also run the following utility which will assess the suitability of your pc ... 5..i notice in your task bar lots of icons. ... ps this song file that is problematic (NICAS DREAM ??) could you post it somewhere so other users can look at it on their own pc's running bb and rb ?? om
Hello OldMuso,
As I already mentioned, I'm currently running the tests on my business computer (HP i3 running Windows 11) on which I've temporarily installed Band in a Box because my music computer (Dell i7 running Windows 10), on which I only have Windows, Band in a Box, and MuseScore, is still at a specialist's whom I've asked to install a larger, faster SSD and increase the RAM..
It's therefore normal that the configuration of the computer I'm currently running the tests on isn't optimal. But I remind you that I originally encountered the stuttering issue with Band in a Box 2025 on my Dell i7 computer, and I started the tests on that one.
Thanks again for all the time you've spent trying to resolve my issue, and I'll definitely follow your advice when I get my Dell i7 back to further improve its performance. But honestly, with all the tests already done, I don't think Band in a Box 2025's stuttering problem is primarily due to computer performance.
Maybe this will help, see pic. {edit} - there is a good explanation of MIDI local control settings starting on page 196 of your manual.
Originellement posté par Jim Fogle
The Yamaha CVP-307 shares manuals with the CVP-309. Manuals are available from Yamaha +++ HERE +++ . You may want to download the user manual and look at pages 196 - 200. Here is part of what the manual says about local control:
Citation
Turns the Local Control for each part on or off. When Local Control is set to “ON,” the keyboard of the instrument controls its own (local) internal tone generator, allowing the internal voices to be played directly from the keyboard. If you set Local to “OFF,” the keyboard and controllers are internally disconnected from the instrument’s tone generator section so that no sound is output when you play the keyboard or use the controllers.
Notice local control has multiple parts.
Thanks MarioD and Jim Fogle,
I'm not called Lazy Bird for nothing: I've had the manual for my Clavinova CVP 307 for years, and it's only now, on your advice, that I'm starting to delve into it to understand a little better how MIDI works ;-)!
Andrew (PG Music) privately told me how to do a comprehensive test of my piano's MIDI settings, and I'm going to give it a try. It'll take some time, but I'll share the results as soon as I'm done.
Because I haven't read through all the messages, this might have already been suggested. My apologies if that's the case.
I notice that you are using the WAS driver. A few years ago (I can't remember how long it was), I had trouble with MIDI playback using WAS. What fixed it for me was to disable "Output always on" option (shown by steps 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5) in the attached image.
I suspect that this will not help the problem you are experiencing, but it is worth trying.
Regards, --Noel
Hello Noël96
Thanks for the idea.
I tried disabling, re-enabling, and re-disabling "Output always on" (in MIDI/Audio Drivers Setup, Audio Settings, Windows Audio Devices), but unfortunately, it doesn't change anything: Band in a Box 2025 continues to stutter when I play with the MIDI Input Driver enabled :-( ...
well ive given you the best info and recommends i can.
when you get your oher pc back i would suggest you do the tests i suggested...
hope you get this resolved.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/21/2510:23 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
Band in a Box started stuttering again when I played with the MIDI Input Driver enabled.
How about if you have the Input enabled but not the Output? Also, can we get a screenshot of that window from your 2020 version?
Originellement posté par Simon - PG Music
Originellement posté par Lazy Bird
Do you see any difference compared to the screenshot I took using Band in a Box 2025 (the screenshot which was in your March 12th post)?
No difference that I can see. When you try with MIDI output disabled, also see what happens when output is set to Microsoft GS or CVP-307-2.
Hello Simon,
I tested Band in Box 2025 with the MIDI Input Driver enabled and the MIDI Output Driver disabled (which isn't ideal, since I can no longer hear the melody of the piece I'm playing along to😊!)
But nothing changes anyway: Band in Box 2025 stutters after a few moments.
I haven't yet tested it with the MIDI Output Driver enabled on the CVP-307-2 or Microsoft GS Wavetable. I'll get back to you as soon as I'm done.
When the MIDI Input Driver is enabled and the selected MIDI Output Driver is:
- the CVP-307-2: the melody track plays a different piano sound than when the MIDI Driver Output is on the CVP-307-1, but this doesn't change the problem: Band in a Box 2025 stutters after a few moments.
- the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth: the melody track plays a barely audible piano, but this still doesn't change the problem: Band in a Box 2025 stutters after a few moments.
I stick to my current conclusion: since Band in a Box 2021 and its 16 new tracks, Band in a Box's handling of the MIDI Input Driver has changed, and this change is incompatible with the MIDI handling of my Clavinova CVP 307.
Best.
PS: Initially, I did not have these two lines CVP-307-1 and CVP-307-2, but only one line CVP-307. Why did these two lines appear and how to return to the initial situation?
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