PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production Open backed headphones - Y or N?

I saw somewhere recently that open-backed headphones were recommended for mixing - I currently have a closed-back set. Apparently, open-backed provide a more authentic, natural sound of what you're hearing, and what do you think of headphones compared to studio monitors - or do you use both?

Those forum members that spend a bit more time mixing or have more mixing experience than I - is there a benefit? If so, what would you recommend? I am on a retired budget, so recommendations under AUD$300 (US/EU/UK 200).
Thanks in advance.
Andrew D

Doh! Just realised there are a couple of post threads about this and related topics which I will read. However, if you still want to give me your two bob's worth, it's most welcome!

Andrew D

Related posts:
Monitors vs headphones for mixing
Mixing through headphones
Why Andrew Scheps Mixes on Cheap Headphones

Open back headphones are fine for listening and mixing, but not for recording. When recording with open back headphones you will get bleeding from the headphones to your mics. But like any headphones or near field monitors you have to know what you hear with them relates to real world listening. For instance I know that my headphones have a slight bass volume increase, thus I do not mix with them. I mix with my near field monitors and use the headphones to check for stereo separation.

I use the Sony MDR 7506 cans for recording and mixing. They are closed back.

Note: I've also used quality ear buds for the same tasks in the past.

Andrew Dee.

both yes and no from me.
depends on the application.

for example when i got heavy rock im playing along to...
and as my gtr amp is loud...lol...prolly open type of headphone.
but doing an important mix maybe a closed one.

not either or for me.
toodles/happiness.

om

Open back headphones are excellent and I have a few pairs (Grado SR60e, AKG K240 and K7XX). The thing to be aware of is that open back headphones inherently have less bass, so mixing on them could result in too much bass in your mix. I typically mix on studio monitors, then check the mix elsewhere (headphones, car stereo, home theatre, the bluetooth speaker in my shower).

No matter what you mix on, you ought to be using other songs as mix references. Your ears get used to things rather quickly, meaning you might not notice how imbalanced your mix is until you compare to something else that's professionally mixed. This is also beneficial if you're mixing an entire album and want all the tracks to sound consistent.

Don't know a single pro—as in Grammys and hit records—using open backs for anything other than casual listening. I have a nice pair of Grados for that but would never consider mixing with them.


Yep — except for the mixing part..


My go-to for nearly 35 years since they were introduced. Earpads are not very rugged and mine are all upgraded with lambskin/memory foam replacements. I do wish that SONY would issue a pro version with replaceable cables.

I also use the Steven Slate VSX system They have recently announced replacement parts — a very good thing.

AKG K240 is a nice option in your price range & open back as requested (well, "semi open" according to specs)

Andrew
I was always a fan of semi-open back AKGs. First pair of k240 lasted me about 20+ years. Several years back, I upgraded to AKG K702. Very neutral, and as it was mentioned thin on bass. They are awesome for reference, and average listening is fantastic, however I found that mixing was not accurate, especially considering my very mediocre skills. Recording.... it's fun to record with these, as you can "hear" the room (and yourself), but the bleed is too much, especially with condenser mics.

Last year I decided to go with closed backs. Beyerdynamic dt 700 pro x. They are extremely nice set, but unlike open backs, closed back phones give me fatigue after about 30-40 minutes of use, but I believe (hope) my mixes improved. What I often do is keep both pairs close. Open backs composing & auditioning and closed back recording and mixing.

My advice to you, if/when picking a set, make sure you will be able to source parts like pads, headband, etc. For example, I have hard time of finding particular suspension parts for AKGs. Beyerdynamic on the other hand are known for sustainability / availability of components after the warranty is gone.

P.S. Not too long ago there was a thread here about headphone environment emulation apps. While it's obvious that mixing on speakers is a preferred method, it doesn't work for many... neighbors, kids, no studio space, cost of pro monitors, etc. While I was very skeptical about such "emulation" apps, I came to a conclusion very recently that it might be a magic pill for someone like me, who doesn't have the luxury of mixing on speakers. Check out Realphones 2. What it does, it corrects signal based on your headphones (they have settings for many models) and based on that gives you an idea of how your mix will sound...for example in real studio environment, bluetooth speaker, a car... many other "spaces". You don't bake your mix through it, but use it as a reference on master bus to adjust things and disable the plugin when bouncing tracks. You can get 41 day demo. I've tried it on my current project, so far I am impressed. I will use it for the next few weeks and if it holds, which I think it will, I will buy it when they run their next sale.

I'll make a couple of comments here. Like two of the above, I bought AKG K240 headphones 40+ years ago and only replaced them a few years back when thety finally died (I ran over the cable with my chair too many times). Initially I replaced with the current K240 MkII, but I was rather disappointed. They're IMHO, nowhere near as good as the K240 "Sextet" model that I bought all those years ago. I do think the MkII is good for the money. I then bought AKG K702 which are better but at twice the money, though still not 'silly'. They're both lightweight and comfortable for long wear. They're both semi-open. They both allow one to 'hear the room' they would both bleed into a recording mic.

I'm no expert on music mixing, so I'll stay out of that bit.

I record and do my first mix with ATH M50X. Decent isolation, comfortable enough and relatively transparent. Have had to replace the earpads and band pad, but otherwise very solid for me. I could almost certainly do a decent final mix with them, but never do.

I used the AKG Q701 for mixing for years. I mean who doesn't want to mix like Quincy Jones, right? They are very close to the K701s by most accounts. But not perfect. The suspension headband is prone to UV damage, at least in my environment, and I replaced it once but stopped since the headband was almost the same price as new phones. They also have a very delicate solder joint on the power to the drivers, so I learned how to repair that, too. Cool headphones, as you would expect, but too much trouble.

Thank you everyone for your very useful comments. After reading these, I think I can summarise as follows:
- Mixed views on open-back vs closed-back for mixing - latter are okay but beware bass/low frequencies
- Beware listening fatigue and use good benchmark recordings to reorient
- Open-back generally not good for recording due to bleed, esp. if using condenser mics - which I am (sE X1 with an acoustic shell)
- Don't rely on a single type of mixing listening medium - try out the draft and final mix on a range of devices that reflect the end-user, but especially studio monitors (flat) * I currently listen on headphones (closed), studio monitors and Airpods
- Several brand and models recommended - prefer those that are built to last *and* preferably have access to spare parts

* I have a pair of Edirol MA-15D with 100mm (4") cones and separate treble cones. I think I need to do a better job of 'triangulating' them with my listening position and also seating them on acoustic absorbant material.

Mine are around 50 years old, still going strong!

Very true, and why I also keep both open and closed sets handy.

Those are the ones I have. I agree they're better than the new K240's, but they're both still very good headphones.

I also have the M50X, and similarly had to replace earpads and headband. I mostly use them while using my e-drums.

This is I think the most important part, and why I have a half dozen sets of headphones handy - plus my monitors, home theatre, car stereo, bluetooth shower speaker...

There are options, optimals and what you have/can afford.
For mixing the crucial things are your hearing and to know the listening device you are using well, know as in what it sounds like with superb recordings and not so good stuff.
If you know the sound of your gear then you'll have a better chance of getting the sound you're after. Yes, the car, mono, monitors, ear buds, MP3 player, computer speakers etc. should be used to check the mix for translation issues.
I don't mix with head phones, I sue headphones when I mix to check for detail & for stereo image if I'm doing something that leans heavily into sound stage manipulation.
The Military Industrial Complex has an offshoot in music recording technology. Bigger, faster, more, new, constant "Growth" etc.
You can mix with an old stereo amp & speakers if you know them & that's all you have. The results will be as good as your ears and awareness.
I went from an old stereo to 5" studio monitors and then to 7" Adams. Improvement came as I went along due to awareness, learning & gear.
There was also a dip in quality with each change as I learnt the new sound in the room, relative to old mixes and reference tracks.
I listen for pleasure with Sennheiser HD 515, (open) or ear buds, (closed) if out walking, (I did use headphones outside but they don't fit well under my hat & the back of neck band ones aren't too flash). When recording I track with MOREME's, (closed), as they are closed and accentuate mids so that following the backing is easier. I have a couple of old set of phones for mixing detail - Yamaha, (closed), Sony, (open) etc.
It's more about your hearing and your awareness than a piece of kit.

I was with you until the shower speaker part