Hello folks, This one needs ears, suggestions and recommendations. I won't drop the lyrics yet as I need the sound assessed rather than the narrative, sorry. BIAB does piano (sort of), organ, drums & lead guitar. Terry Berman does the vocals. The piano, flute and cello are via MIDI. The latter two using Mellotron VSTIs & the piano, that's a complex story. I found a cool piano in BIAB and there were snippets of the REALTRACK I REALLY liked. The MIDI from BIAB was too clinical & clean so I tried a different strategy: I imported the piano track from BIAB into REAPER...ran Melodyne across it & rendered that detection result to midi. I imported the midi, copied out the snippets I wanted and reconstructed the song. Melodyne heard & registered the overtones, ghost notes, grace notes and mistakes REALLY well. I linked the MIDI to a good free piano sample source, played it through. Edited to increase the level of the notes I wanted to carry the part, wrote in lines to "move" from one part to the next and then removed or reduced those bits that cluttered or clouded the piece. Even so there were a lot of notes & sounds BUT it seems quite cool to my ears. The original BIAB bass was a very good piece of work BUT it was quite pitchy, mostly a little flat, and had the occasional very odd note choice so I, reluctantly, tracked my own bass, added guitar, sorted the lyrics & melody then sent it off to Terry who spent some time, changed a word here & there and embellished the melody. Only a mix bus limiter on this...not finished, not mastered.
Thanks in anticipation of you listening & commenting. I need fresh ears on this thing. 060725 update/tweak Upped the bass, did a version of the Motown Exciter - both suggested by FJ - CRIM HIST 060725 MORE VOCAL mix[/color] - it's also quieter to keep it all at a safe streaming level as I removed the mix buss limiter Criminal Histories - v2[/b][color:#990000][/color] [b]ORIGINAL MIX[color:#CC33CC] CRIMINAL HISTORIES[color:#CC0000][/color]
BIAB parts: DRUMS - RealDrumsPopAdore6 04 ORGAN - 3099 LEAD GTR - 3348
MIDI parts (written in the piano roll editor in Reaper): DSK The Grand (free) REDTRON Free - (Mellotron flute - verses & cello choruses)
FX: Ambience Reverb Free ReaEQ native to Reaper ReaDelay native to Reaper AirWindows Iron Oxide (main vox) free Modern Deathcore Comp of backing vox. Free
INSTRUMENTS: Vantage Bass Squire Bullet Mustang
AND FINALLY The Lyric: Criminal History 3 v1 In the last century There's overtime & more No longer pestilence But the victims of war From Barbaossa to the Killing Field Aggression is now a shield. c1 Death needs a holiday But can't take the risk With natural attrition The business was brisk Death needs a holiday But there's so much on the plate With the uptick in business It doesn't pay to be late v2 But in modern history Between commerce & the poor Inhuman commodities The slave and the paramour All collateral damage done Former victims fill the garrison c2 Death needs a holiday But pre-emption changed the game Now that old Lebensraum Has sought to change it's name Death needs a holiday Can't keep up with the times As the Lions and their genocide Play at their war crimes v3 From the Belgian Congo From Dresden to Auschwitz From the gulags to Nagasaki Death quietly joins the bits c3 Death needs a holiday But is not a fool For business is brisk When starvation is a tool. The faces of the children x 4
This is the piano roll for the chorus piano...heavily edited.
Last edited by rayc; 07/05/2507:54 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Ray...sounds to me like you have an interesting project going on here...I know your final mix hasn't happened yet but my first impression was I cannot understand most of the lyrics (not in meaning ) but in clarity...don't know if others will have the same experience...love the piano stuff that's going on...I'm not very good with technical fixes but I like what's happening and/or starting to happen here...check back for the final mix.
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It sounds like the song has great potential - I like the way it drifts along - but so far it's a poor mix. I agree with Firesong that it's impossible to hear the lyrics, but although it's personal taste I think you've gone OTT on the effects: the drums sound just too loud and clumsy - I think they'd sound better natural - but overall there's too much distortion on everything, leaving a muddy sound overall. Generally, it lack clarity.
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Hi Ray! Sounds very Pink Floyd-ish! I'd like to hear more of the lead guitar - I only became aware of it around 2'50", but it was really quite low in the mix. It'll be interesting to see where this goes! Andrew D
Ray, quite like the vibe of this one. The piano figures are unique but appealing, and the piano patch you've chosen has a nice tone that cuts through the mix. Not sure what the pads I'm hearing are, but they provide a solid anchor for the track, and the piano plays nice with them. Cool progression and melodic lines throughout. The slow, persistent rhythm of the drummer also works well to my ears. Think you're on the right track IMHO...
Surprised at the work necessary to extract the MIDI piano, since I THOUGHT many (most? all?) of the BiaB RealTrack pianos captured the corresponding MIDI output as they were played. At any rate, they sound great here. THANKS for the Melodyne tip, I'll definitely keep that one in reserve. FWIW, I almost always use the BiaB MIDI transcript from RealTrack pianos, as they sound crisper to my ears.
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Ray...sounds to me like you have an interesting project going on here...I know your final mix hasn't happened yet but my first impression was I cannot understand most of the lyrics (not in meaning ) but in clarity...don't know if others will have the same experience...love the piano stuff that's going on...I'm not very good with technical fixes but I like what's happening and/or starting to happen here...check back for the final mix.
Thanks for the kind words - I've adjusted the vocal to cut through more - I was expecting comments regarding it.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
It sounds like the song has great potential - I like the way it drifts along - but so far it's a poor mix. I agree with Firesong that it's impossible to hear the lyrics, but although it's personal taste I think you've gone OTT on the effects: the drums sound just too loud and clumsy - I think they'd sound better natural - but overall there's too much distortion on everything, leaving a muddy sound overall. Generally, it lack clarity.
Thanks for the observations. As listed above - there aren't many effects and the most heavily used in reverb on the backing vocals. There's only a little compression on the drums & some EQ do de-click the kick. There's no distortion on anything but it's possible that you hear crunch from the gentle limiter on the mix buss &/or whatever Soundcloud did. I removed the limiter on the follow up mix but had to reduce the overall level by 3 dB to get a red free signal. Have a listen to the 2nd mix if you get a chance. Thanks.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Hi Ray! Sounds very Pink Floyd-ish! I'd like to hear more of the lead guitar - I only became aware of it around 2'50", but it was really quite low in the mix. It'll be interesting to see where this goes! Andrew D
Thanks Andrew, The lead comes in at the end of the 1st verse and weaves in & out as I wanted to keep it to a minimal - particularly as I had no luck getting a tone & feel combo to suit. Though not mixed on head phones this song is targeted to that environment to pick up the little things.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Ray, quite like the vibe of this one. The piano figures are unique but appealing, and the piano patch you've chosen has a nice tone that cuts through the mix. Not sure what the pads I'm hearing are, but they provide a solid anchor for the track, and the piano plays nice with them. Cool progression and melodic lines throughout. The slow, persistent rhythm of the drummer also works well to my ears. Think you're on the right track IMHO...
Surprised at the work necessary to extract the MIDI piano, since I THOUGHT many (most? all?) of the BiaB RealTrack pianos captured the corresponding MIDI output as they were played. At any rate, they sound great here. THANKS for the Melodyne tip, I'll definitely keep that one in reserve. FWIW, I almost always use the BiaB MIDI transcript from RealTrack pianos, as they sound crisper to my ears.
Thanks Ron, As mentioned in the O.P. - the BIAB midi was too clean, lacked the ghost notes etc.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
It's hard for me to give production advice on someone else's vision. I can tell you that I like this one very much. Your vocal sounds good with a lo-fi feel. I think it fits this piece well. I also really like the way the mix feels. It certainly has a Pink Floyd / early Bowie feel.
Love the piano. Love the Drums!!! Good bass. I'd bump it slightly (1 dB or less) The overall sound is cool. Vocals (0507) a bit heavy on the reverb, making the lyrics difficult to "hear". (a suggestion - sometimes works, sometimes not...mix in a completely dry vocal at a VERY low level with all the lows dropped out. It can add some clarity without having to change anything else.)
How can you be reluctant to lay down such a fine bass track, Ray?
b-version comments, but I heard little difference between the two, so it's not my ears you'll want. Oh, yes, on the Pink Floyd. Love this, Ray. I agree with Bob that it's tough to give advice to someone who is as accompplished at this stuff as you are. My only advice would be to keep spitting your creativity at it. This may be the first time I've said I like your vocal toward the back. The harmony is so cool.
If I had your sliders in front of me, I'd make some changes but I'm not sure what they'd be, or that you or anyone else would deem them improvements. A song this good cannot be ruined by opinions. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your spit on this one as well as the changes you'll incorporate from the more capable commentors.
Enjoy whatever happens! marty
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Ray, It's hard for me to give production advice on someone else's vision. I can tell you that I like this one very much. Your vocal sounds good with a lo-fi feel. I think it fits this piece well. I also really like the way the mix feels. It certainly has a Pink Floyd / early Bowie feel. Bob
Thanks Bob, Yes the vocal isn't flash & polished. terry recorded it a 6am in the cold hills of Lithgow. He sang quietly so as not to wake the family & he'd not sucked in much liquid let alone caffeine.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Love the piano. Love the Drums!!! Good bass. I'd bump it slightly (1 dB or less) The overall sound is cool. Vocals (0507) a bit heavy on the reverb, making the lyrics difficult to "hear". (a suggestion - sometimes works, sometimes not...mix in a completely dry vocal at a VERY low level with all the lows dropped out. It can add some clarity without having to change anything else.) Looking forward to the video! This is cool. fj
Thanks Floyd, Yes, I agree, the drums are tres Bon. Bass bumped, - I also applied your suggestion which is, more or less, the Motown Exciter, and it worked a treat. Video is waiting on the music to be completed...coming soon.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
How can you be reluctant to lay down such a fine bass track, Ray? b-version comments, but I heard little difference between the two, so it's not my ears you'll want. Oh, yes, on the Pink Floyd. Love this, Ray. I agree with Bob that it's tough to give advice to someone who is as accompplished at this stuff as you are. My only advice would be to keep spitting your creativity at it. This may be the first time I've said I like your vocal toward the back. The harmony is so cool. If I had your sliders in front of me, I'd make some changes but I'm not sure what they'd be, or that you or anyone else would deem them improvements. A song this good cannot be ruined by opinions. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your spit on this one as well as the changes you'll incorporate from the more capable commentors.
Thanks Marty, The BIAB track had great tone and a good feel. I tried tuning it but the tone changed too much. I copied it as best I could and, because I'm lazy, did my own thing often enough. Yeah, terry's vocals sound best sat back but, I suppose, unless I make a lyric vid, the words, and they are important in this one, may be missed. I quite enjoy letting someone mix - both the release from responsibility and the opportunity to learn are unbeatable.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
The lyrics are a little difficult for me to understand, and although I can roughly understand the theme, I didn't quite get what you were trying to convey. As for the sound, it seems to be a very experimental piece. I can see that by turning the piano and Meltron flute into MIDI, you were probably able to get closer to the sound you intended. I'm very impressed with how you've experimented with all sorts of things. Enjoyed my listen a lot.
Ray, loved the concept. Super backing tracks. Your bass playing is excellent. Like others I did have difficultly with the vocal. I really liked the Mellotron sounds.
I think with a little polish, mostly on the vocal, you will have a dynamite song.
PS - I have used Melodyne exactly the same way.
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reyc, The lyrics are a little difficult for me to understand, and although I can roughly understand the theme, I didn't quite get what you were trying to convey. As for the sound, it seems to be a very experimental piece. I can see that by turning the piano and Meltron flute into MIDI, you were probably able to get closer to the sound you intended. I'm very impressed with how you've experimented with all sorts of things. Enjoyed my listen a lot Best regards. Shigeki Adachi
Thanks Shigeki, If the message doesn't come through that's my fault. It's a broad one though with some specifics to fix it in time & space & relativity. "Experimental"? Probably more of the last two syllables that the 1st three. I'm not a huge fan of midi but it certainly fills a hole in this piece. The Mellotron stuff, (flute & cello), is a VSTi source for MIDI ...if it's simply I'll play it in with a keyboard but if I'm working out countermelodies it's far easier for my limited capacity, to write it in with piano roll.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Ray, loved the concept. Super backing tracks. Your bass playing is excellent. Like others I did have difficultly with the vocal. I really liked the Mellotron sounds.
I think with a little polish, mostly on the vocal, you will have a dynamite song.
PS - I have used Melodyne exactly the same way.
Thanks Mr MIDI! I can polish the vocals a little more but I don't want them any louder than the already are...they're become, to me, obtrusive - particularly for the template in my scone.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
I liked the moody feeling and clever melodyline. The mix reminds of the so called progressive bands of the 1970-80s. How about to add in the end classical music instruments like strings and organ to build it more and to have changes? Like in one of my favourites The Salty Dog by the Procol Harum.
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