For anyone who hasn't see this, here is a 2020 summary of True Peak Limit (dBTP) and LUFS-I and Dynamic Range for various streaming platforms.
I came across this table while investigating how to use Reaper's limiter to reduce digital clipping of peaks while expanding the volume of the overall. Reaper's dynamic plugin "JS: Loudness Meter Peak/RMS/LUFS (Cockos)" is excellent for giving real-time feedback on clipping and various LUFS data. It is perfect for visualising output. When placed on the Master Track after a mastering plugin, this Loudness Meter plugin works well with any mastering tool (e.g. Ozone).
This is the Kenny Gioia video that I was watching (in case anyone is interested).
I've used the target of -14 LUFS for many years; it seems to work out well. I did not put my commercial music on most of these platforms; CD Baby did, so I don't know what settings they used (and it was almost 20 years ago for most of my serious recording).
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I only have a few songs on Soundcloud. I'm way behind on all this information so I'm giving myself a crash course. The resources that are available on the internet these days (Youtube expecially) are incredible. I'm learning lots as I go along.
Thank you Noel - this is the second thing I have learned today - I didn't know LUFS existed, but it makes sense. This is yet another reason I am seriously considering focusing on Reaper (I have Cakewalk Sonar as well). Andrew
I've been using Reaper for a long time now. It has become very popular. I noticed just recently that there are heaps of videos on Youtube. One of the best sites is Kenny Gioia's site called Reaper Mania. He's been very prolific and focuses on teaching people about the software. His videos are great.
My experience has been that 14 LUFS is very quiet for SoudCloud. They are apparently one of the few platforms that make no adjustments to what you upload.
I'm a big fan of loundnesspenalty.com - free and no signup required and very fast. It only takes a few seconds to see how and if your song will be altered by the platforms. I use this as a basis for all my mastering.
A LOT of the forum songs would require huge changes by the platforms as many are very loud. And the changes made my the platforms can introduce artifacts IMHO.
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My experience has been that 14 LUFS is very quiet for SoudCloud. They are apparently one of the few platforms that make no adjustments to what you upload.
I'm a big fan of loundnesspenalty.com - free and no signup required and very fast. It only takes a few seconds to see how and if your song will be altered by the platforms. I use this as a basis for all my mastering.
A LOT of the forum songs would require huge changes by the platforms as many are very loud. And the changes made my the platforms can introduce artifacts IMHO.
Thanks Bud - excuse my questions in ignorance - I've only learned of LUFS existence due to Noel's thread and still learning DAW and mixing stuff as I go. I had wondered why my songs posted had different volumes on different sites. Do you aim for a LUFS target before checking with loudnesspenalty.com, or do you go by experience and feel and then just check it with loudnesspenalty.com before posting? If it's too loud, do you use a limiter on your master track final mix? If you do target LUFS, is it the 'integrated' measure, or do you use short range measure for the peak section of the track? Andrew
My experience is that you can use these charts and tools to get it close to the way each streaming service wants it, but you do not have control; they do. If you are just a hair over their limit they will make adjustments you may not like.
Many years ago I learned you cannot predict what an individual radio station will do to squash the dynamic range out of your song, only that it will. This streaming environment still unfortunately has some of that and it has been the Wild West as far as moving standards, if my experiences over the past six years are still true.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
There’s a 10W radio network called K-LOVE that squashes your mix to an extreme not found anywhere else — yet some tracks still sound good. How?
We who know use brickwall limiters to suck all the dynamics out of our clients’ tracks in advance. Our mixes are unchanged when broadcast. Some things really are that simple.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
Since no one has yet mentioned the Youlean Loudness Meter, I will. The free version is fully functional. The Pro version adds a ton of useful features, including presets for a lot of different streaming platforms. The YLM is a plugin that you put at the end of your signal chain in BiaB or in your DAW. You can configure the free version for any streaming platforms requirements, or use the simpler Pro version preset. I upgraded to Pro many years ago to support the dev. He has continuously upgraded it (all upgrades are free for life), adding Pro version user requests. Highly recommended.
My experience has been that 14 LUFS is very quiet for SoudCloud. They are apparently one of the few platforms that make no adjustments to what you upload.
I'm a big fan of loundnesspenalty.com - free and no signup required and very fast. It only takes a few seconds to see how and if your song will be altered by the platforms. I use this as a basis for all my mastering.
A LOT of the forum songs would require huge changes by the platforms as many are very loud. And the changes made my the platforms can introduce artifacts IMHO.
Thanks Bud - excuse my questions in ignorance - I've only learned of LUFS existence due to Noel's thread and still learning DAW and mixing stuff as I go. I had wondered why my songs posted had different volumes on different sites. Do you aim for a LUFS target before checking with loudnesspenalty.com, or do you go by experience and feel and then just check it with loudnesspenalty.com before posting? If it's too loud, do you use a limiter on your master track final mix? If you do target LUFS, is it the 'integrated' measure, or do you use short range measure for the peak section of the track? Andrew
Firstly I try to adjust my limiter (final fx in my mastering chain) to leave plenty of dynamics including peaks that some folks would squash. We like open/airy mixes irrespective of the genre we are working with. Also we've learned to trust what we hear on our Kali monitors (8" woofer). I'll listen to the mix on the "big" living room system but nearly always go with what we heard on the monitors. And unlike many folks I never mix or master with headphones. I want a sound like I'm sitting in the center of the third row of a live band in a good hall.
I then use Logic Pro's Loudness Meter to look at the LUFS. Depending on the tune 10-12 integrated works for us. The 14 thing is not written in stone. And the 10-12 typically results in a file that is little altered by the platforms.
Like mixing, mastering is rarely "finished" ... just abandoned. One can parse things out until all the joy is sucked out of the process.
You will get many opinions on my process with a lot of folks saying all I typed above is dead wrong.
Oh one other thing I forgot. I frequently use a reference song. Meaning I'll listen to a similar tune that I think is well done several times during mixing and mastering. This is to keep the notion in my old brain of how I would like for the production to sound. Works for me.
A truckload of FWIWs and YMMV's.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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