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Hi there. Took some of your thoughts onboard and doubled the vocals, moved them a hair up the timeline, and added two little bits of harmony. I also pumped the solo guitar which resulted in a more obvious abruptness I don't know how to deal with. Can anyone share their start and stop techniques...besides fading in and out which doesn't always work either? I await your wisdom! https://soundcloud.com/thetiltedhalolab/rocks-of-ideology
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Hi there. Took some of your thoughts onboard and doubled the vocals, moved them a hair up the timeline, and added two little bits of harmony. I also pumped the solo guitar which resulted in a more obvious abruptness I don't know how to deal with. Can anyone share their start and stop techniques...besides fading in and out which doesn't always work either? I await your wisdom! https://soundcloud.com/thetiltedhalolab/rocks-of-ideologyI'm not sure I can add any wisdom but I'll try. I really like the vocal and mix except for the lead guitar. You could try EQing and/or compression it but I don't think that would work. If the RT has a DI option I would use that and add my own effects so it would blend better with the rest of the song. If no DI then I would try other guitar RT. But that is only my opinion and others with a lot more RT experience would be a better choice for answers.
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Beth, love this song (still) and your vocals are fantastic. That lead guitar is a distraction though. I don't use soloists much, but if you really want to use these soloist sections, I'd suggest turning them down in the mix and panning the corresponding reverb/delay chain opposite the soloist. Then use volume envelopes and fades on the starts/stops. This should provide some of the color and ambience without the...glare. Using volume envelopes and/or regeneration to tame these type of solos can be hit and miss for me. To be honest, Chay does the best job on this forum in getting these wild-ish solos to sound musical and fit in the narrative. Think he uses a lot of regenerations to find the "perfect" solo though...
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Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Hi Beth!
I like the addition of the BVs. I agree the lead guitar is a bit too up front, so dropping the volume a tad could help. I like the style of the lead, so not suggesting ditching that. Regarding the ending of each guitar passage, once or twice I have allowed the lead guitar to play into (overlap) the bars the vocals start, find an appropriate place to cut that isn’t mid lick, then faded this section that overlaps the vocals so that the transition is smoother. I experiment with the length of fade, and if RealBand supports different fade types (straight, concave, convex etc.) experiment with these also. This might make it less abrupt.
A very cool song, so I hope you continue with it!
Andrew
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I agree with my forum friends re the lead guitar—too sharp-edged and kind of a distraction. If it were my project, I’d cut the solo, have about 8 bars of backing with gentle vocal ooo’s in harmony—creates kind of a reflective interlude where the listener can take in your message. Also, I don’t like the word “sh*t” in the lyric—comes off as too much “in your face” and isn’t natural compared to the rest of the lyric. However, I really like the other aspects of your project, and I’m glad I stopped in to listen.
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Thanks, Ron, I don't know anything about most of what you wrote. Never-ending learning curves!!! So I guess I'll be experimenting with envelopes. Can you clarify this bit: "panning the corresponding reverb/delay chain opposite the soloist"? I'm guessing you mean turning down the soloist, but after that you lose me. It sounds like you're saying the reverb can be panned separately?
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Glad you like the style. I tried every other possible guitar and nothing else quite worked the way I wanted it to. I have used your trick once or twice too of extending the section. With this particular guitar, it didn't seem to work but maybe if I also apply your fade idea. Thanks for the help!
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Thank you, Tom. Glad you gave it a listen. Not sure it would be the same song if I went the direction you'd take, though.
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I think this is a great improvement on the original. Re those short guitar breaks, I'd have gone for a different style - when I don't know beforehand what I want I nearly always try 20+ different ones before finding which suits best - and I'd have gone for something a little less attacking, plus with lyrics I wouldn't have had them so loud. When I'm using solos in my instrumentals, but also in 2 of my vocal songs, I try to find samples or sample segments where the solo instrument can be introduced slightly before the bar it's predominant in, and then ditto the outro of the solo. I often collect numbers of generations of a sample so I can 'cut & paste' the best start and ends. Also where solos start abruptly I often fade in the first second or fraction of a second, then also ditto re outros.
PS: I just saw DC Ron's comment - thanks Ron! - and it really does pay off to try out as many samples as one can. I probably have over 300 Styles in my 'Favorite Styles' box, and more than 50 of them are primarily for guitar solos Many I'll probably never use, but even those I don't use inspire ideas. About a week ago I finished a new instrumental - a very positive-vibed one called "A New Day" (same good feeling vibe as in my "Flying Free" & "Spring Forward" tracks) which has in order piano, tenor sax, organ and guitar solos, all depicting a continuing improvement in the Day, but the guitar solo was frustrating me as the first few samples I tried had the most interesting phrases in the bars before the solo starts. So I kept on regenerating the sample over and over again - probably the most generations I've ever done for a single solo - until I had 4 with most exciting phrases in different parts of the relevant bars. I then cut and pasted the 4 together so that the track ends with a real 'UP'! It took ages to do - probably about 4 hours for a 1 minute solo - but I really had fun doing it and what I got in the end was 100% what I wanted.
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리듬감이 좋습니다, 목소리도 좋았어요
기타소리는 조금 놀랐지만 전체적으로 듣기 좋았습니다
--------------------
The rhythm is good, and the vocals are nice.
The guitar sound was a bit surprising, but overall, it was enjoyable to listen to.
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Yep, I like the vocals the way they are now, they sound really good ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/images/icons/default/thumbs_up.gif) I agree with others that the guitar is a bit intrusive. Reducing the volume would help somewhat, but I think the main reason is that it has too sharp an attack for your arrangement. Instead of doctoring around with EQ and compressors, I would simply use a different real track, on that comes in a little softer and plays fewer notes.
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One of the reasons I use Reaper as my DAW is because it allows me to perform pitch shifting and time stretching. That's not just for vocals, but also for solo instruments that are almost, but not quite right. If there's a note that cuts too soon, I can stretch the note, or steal one from another phrase and pitch shift it into place. Very often, I'll frankenstein a solo together from all sorts of parts. Being able to repeat a phrase that I like, but adjust it so it works under a different chord, is really helpful in creating a part that sounds good. What I'll often do is generate several tracks of the solo instrument, and then go through each track looking for bits that I like, without worrying much about whether the notes match the chords because I can fix that later. It's the feel of the phrase that's most important. Then I'll try assembling the pieces together so they make sense as a solo, phrasing the notes the way that I want. I'll crossfade the bits so they work. Depending on the source material, I might work with bits as short as single notes. This is where being able to stretch notes is really helpful. You can probably do this in BiaB. Reaper just happens to be the tool I'm most familiar for this, and years ago when I tried doing this in RealBand, I just threw up my hands because I couldn't find the tools I wanted. Something like Melodyne can also be used to "fix" the pitches. Once I've got that mostly in place, I'll start finessing the actual pitches. If I'm lucky, BiaB will have produced something that's really close to what I wanted. If not, I'll have a lot of work to do. Sometimes, it just makes sense to switch over to a different instrument, as the feel of the solo just doesn't match the vibe of the song. When all else fails, I can fall back on MIDI tracks. For example, Indiginus has some great instruments with lots of articulations (hammer ons, slides, etc) that you can use to embellish solos and make them sound more convincing. But that requires a very specific ability - to hear exactly what you want the guitar solo to do. And I've rarely been able to create a MIDI solo that's half as convincing as what can be done with BiaB. Anyway, being able to extend a note means that I can fade the solo out as the vocal is coming in, if that's needed. Or I can give the phrase a proper ending.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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We only listened to this updated version but we like the doubled vocals and bit of harmony. The optimism mixed in throughout the lyric of protest was very engaging. Regarding the solo RT. We've worked with them for years. Firstly they are remarkable when tweaked to your song as others have mentioned. We would do repeated regens of a solo and then comp up from them a single track that we felt met "our" vibe. And as others mentioned some times a bit of note stretching and/or pitch changing will make a huge difference. And particularly where the notes don't resolve or segue well into the first note of the vocal. FWIW! Try not to get discouraged! Mixing is fun, tedious, rewarding and exasperating ... often within the same tune.  J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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Your vocal sounds great. I will echo what the others said about the lead guitar. It doesn't fit with the style. In fact, the rhythm instruments are compelling to listen to that you don't need that lead guitar (or at least try an acoustic lead). Good song!
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Here goes...some catching up responding to folks kind enough to share their knowledge: Chay - I admire your tenacity for the perfect fit. Not sure I can summon that same level, but I do hear and have taken in that the soloist just doesn't work. Shame. I wanted something more edgy...Alanis Morrisette sounding. Will keep looking. Asom - thank you! BD - loved your suggestion for the harmonies; thanks! Have yet to find the perfect soloist. David - Time stretching is a new one for me. Interesting. "I'll frankenstein them" Is that the technical term?  I don't know if I have your grit and interest in working so intensely with the mix. I don't find that part nearly as enjoyable as the rest, but I do like learning in digestible bites. Thanks. Janice & Bud - I get the tedious and exasperating...maybe the fun and rewarding will come?  Scott - Yeah, I'm convinced. I need a different soloist. Thanks!
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Beth,
I liked it and believe it or not, I thought the guitars were very effective. Maybe the opening guitar part could use some work, but the rest of it sounded fine to me. I'm just one person's opinion, but I thought you ought to know. Vocals superb as always.
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Thanks for that! To be fair to the others, I uploaded a toned-down version, so you heard that. It was really obnoxious in the original updated version. I'm really struggling to get the right sound on this one.
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BYOBand,
Nice production and performance! The distorted guitar was not a problem for me like it seems to be for others....maybe it could stand to be a little less prominent in the mix but hey, what do I know! None of us here are experts in the mixing game! The only thing I found myself waiting for was some harmony on some of the parts! But all in all, you need to not worry what anybody else thinks and produce it the way you hear it!
Thanks, TB
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Hey, I think I nailed it...or ya know, got as close as I'm going to. I found a couple of good funky guitars that went well together, took out one of the loops and added another brief moment of harmony. I'm happy enough with it now. Thanks so much for all your inputs and suggestions.
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Beth - I sent you a PM!!
Carl
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