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One thing we have to deal with is, that when we mix our production in a hifi environment, most of the people listen them in poor listening environment: even with mobile phones in noisy background. One famous Finnish producer told me, that he makes a copy of his song, he is working on, on a C-cassette and listens it in his car with C-cassette player. That was in the late 1980s. This check to make sure, that the most important elements of his song were heard even poor acoustic environments. The vocals should be heard nowadays even in mono with the loudspeakers of a cheap mobile phone, because mostly people listen to the vocals, not the instruments, which is a pity for us instrumentalist. I'm using SoundID Reference from Sonar, both to calibrate my headphones I'm mixing with (not to disturb others at home) and to check, how my master mix sounds in cars, TV-sets, mobile phones and lap tops using their loudspeakers. It works quite well. https://www.sonarworks.com/soundid-reference/integrations/audient-oria-miniHow you cope with this issue? PS. I opened up a new thread for this topic, because the discussion in my last thread went to Apple production failures and didn't get comments on this issue.
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I always check studio mixes, which are based on neutral headphones and studio monitors, on pedestrian sound sources, most notably cheap bluetooth earbuds (from my iPhone) and a car stereo (also from my iPhone, with both bluetooth and wired connections). In addition to normal volumes, I'll listen at extremely low volumes. My 26-year old son only listens to music on his iPhone and in his car, and he listens a LOT. Figured I'd better get wise... You won't have to convince me that a quality stereo or headphones are better. I believe it. Used to use an older version SonarWorks Reference series by I didn't like the effect on my mixes. Just me. There will be lots of opinions on this, of course. 
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
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Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Yes, a car is a critical place to check mixes. The bass response is often exaggerated and the noise floor from road noise is high, giving you less dynamic range within which to mix.
I just bought the Steven Slate VSX headphones, which have software to emulate many mixing environments including bad places like a car. So far I’m finding this helpful to not only check mixes, but for the first time ever, actually do a mix using headphones.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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We check our mixes on our monitors (in mono and stereo), on the big living room system, in the Subaru and on AirPods (earbuds).
Our goal is for a mix to sound good in all environments.
Folks that listen to our Americana and Blues and not the type who would listen through a cell phone’s speakers.
Also during our mastering process we often use a reference song that represents how we want the end product to sound.
We have been placed on a lot of Spotify playlists and I know the curators listen very closely before accepting a tune as they nearly always comment on both vocals and solos.
I am curious as to what lead you to the conclusion that folks mostly listen to only the vocals???
OK I'm an old guy but we have a lot of friends who do listen on their phones BUT via high end earbuds.
FWIW, boatloads of salt, etc.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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I recall reading an article about Quincy Jones mixing Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' album. He also wanted to hear it on a 6-transistor radio. He stated that if it sounded good on that device, the mix was pretty well right. I guess that's thinking outside the box.
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I recall reading an article about Quincy Jones mixing Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' album. He also wanted to hear it on a 6-transistor radio. He stated that if it sounded good on that device, the mix was pretty well right. I guess that's thinking outside the box. No... That was a specific reference. Takes me waaaaay back. One probably has to be my age or older to remember how ubiquitous the ads were for a "6 Transistor Radio" in the mid 1960s. For some reason, six was the magic number. I remember winning one in a contest when I was 9 or 10 — it was a big deal. Yeah, that was the ticket. Google "6 Transistor Radio" and see how many vintage ads show up.
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Hi. I have a Subaru Outback. It's the seventh Subaru, starting from Leone and thru Forester to Outback. It's noise level indoors is quite low, so that's one reason I'm so fond of Subarus.
My statement, that people listen mostly vocals is based on is empirical: what I have had comments. In the genres I produce music, people are often interested in stories the song is telling, so it's important to hear the vocals.
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I don't know about others, but I prefer to be able to clearly hear vocals. When I saw the title of this, I thought it might be discussing the difference between how a songwriter and a "normal" person hears songs. They are worlds apart!  I've got some nice speakers, as well as tools to emulate various environments using headphones. Those are really useful, but the most useful tool is listening in my car. It's soul crushing to hear something that sparkles on my monitor turn to flat sludge in the car. 
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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David, I read it as you did, which is the way I wanted to think it was.
I think the only example I can give that is more depressing than listening in a car, is hearing my carefully mixed and mastered music squashed to death by a local radio station while I’m being interviewed.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks. It's nice to have this forum, so it's one place at least, where people listen my productions in decent acoustic environment and can study the components and comment them. Mostly finalizing and mastering the mix feels like throwing pearls before swine, when people listen my productions in noisy environment with lo-fi equipment.
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Hi Arri!
I agree with your subject title, but maybe for different reasons. You and others have talked about the quality of the listening environment/technology of the listener, and you have also discussed the importance of hearing vocals, hearing the words, and the timbre of the voice. You have also mentioned how you prefer the vocals and band/instruments to be heard within the soundscape, and how that has informed how you pan them, dynamics, effects etc. of course, this might vary from one song to the next.
It reminds me a little of an explanation of the perils of communication I learned when I studied communication at college …
The message you wanted to convey …
The message the receiver actually understood …
The feedback message the receiver wanted to give back to you …
The feedback you actually understood.
For me, even though I am learning mixing and arranging with each new song I write and record, and because I write songs there needs to be singing of words involved, my primary interest (what I really want my listeners to hear) is the melody sung over my chord choices and be turned on by how that all sounds harmonically and supported by the instruments. Mixing, arranging and production are for me about putting that harmonic picture in the best possible light so that bad production doesn’t detract or distract from the song I want them to hear and enjoy. For some of my songs - a lot of them but not all - the lyrics I use are just the vehicle to carry the song. I realise I am a bit odd in this way because many listeners are first attracted to the lyrics and the message or the emotion, but for me, it is mostly the harmonic idea, followed by rhythm. When I listen to others’ songs, my ear is first turned to things like melody, chord progression, instrumentation (the voice as an instrument) and only then will I go back and look at the lyrics.
This is a long way of me saying each of us should do it as we want it, BUT appreciate that listeners might hear it differently or prefer to hear it a different way or get turned off by the quality of what they’re hearing or overlook what the songwriter was striving to get them to hear. I want my listeners to say “I like that melody in the chorus over that interesting chord progression”, whereas what I often hear is a comment about rhyme style, a cool phrase, or something that needs attending to in the mix. We all aim for slightly different preferences and we hear different things in songs. That’s why this forum is so useful. Affirmation, blind spots, learning.
Andrew
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Going to concerts and live shows isn't a lot of fun for musicians and especially ones like us who are into recording. I find myself focused on the mix and the overall quality of the sound. If it's too loud and or has poor separation of the instruments with the vocals buried ... It's just a miserable experience for me. We went to see Diamond Rio last year. Great seats. Nice theater style venue. Horrifying mix. They are a band whose vocal work shines with great harmony. The vox were buried the the cacophony of noise emminating from the speakers. I went back to the FOH location and it was not any better there. Compare that to a Bellamy Brothers show a few years ago that sounded like a nice home stereo system in a not so ideal looking old theater venue.
So when I mix i like to check the mix on my phone and earbuds. In the relaxed environment of my living room, I can hear things in the mix that I don't hear in my studio. Things like levels of certain instruments being a few dB low or high, tone of the guitar, and little glitches. My truck seems to accentuate the low end and helps me dial that in better. I don't always listen in the truck. I've turned my sub up in the studio so I can hopefully get a better idea of what the low end will do in the automotive environment.
A lot of the problem we have as amateur recording enthusiasts is the room we work in isn't acoustically tuned or treated and is a major contributor to the muddied mixes and the frustration we experience in trying to get a good mix.
I really need to see if I can get my ARC software tuned up and running. I used it at my old studio and it seemed to work well. Maybe I'll get to that this week.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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An important point again: our listening environment while monitoring our mixing may color the sound. I produce music in a normal spare bedroom, without any insulation or acoustical treatment. So I mix with hi quality headphones calibrated with SoundID Reference from Sonar. The other reasons is, that then I'm not disturbing others in our house.
An other good point: I'm also very often frustrated in live gigs to bad live sound. There should be nowadays tools for decent sound. Of cource the poor mixing engineer can't help, if the band doesn't have a balance at the stage. Very often the solo guitarist and sometimes even the bass player turns the instrument amplifier at the stage so loud, that that is all you can hear.
I would write songs, but I don't have much to say and maybe not talented enough to write melodies within harmony. So instead of filling the lyrics with meaningless words just for the sake of the melody, I search for lost treasures of music history and produce new versions of them.
I agree, that specially when listening songs written in languages I don't understand, I don't listen to lyrics, but melody, rhythm, arrangement, instrumen solos etc. Even in the case of many songs in English, I don't bother try to pick up the lyrics, because they are not worth it.
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I don't know about others, but I prefer to be able to clearly hear vocals. For me, it's understanding the words. As a choir director, I am the same way. Once upon a time, I thought that my KRK monitors were great. I had them dialed in as flat as I could with a 1/3 octave EQ, mixes sounded as I expected etc. About 13 years ago, I put in a CD that I had mastered but not delivered into my 2004 Prius. To my surprise, I heard different words on one of the tracks. Huh??? I listened again on the KRKs and realised that the mids were crap. I called Ted Keffalo and he told me about his new company and speakers, the Equator Audio D5 so I had him send me a pair. On installation, no external eq, I put on a popular record from the mid '70s and hear the orchestra balance was off and the French Horn out of tune — what the…??? Then I listened again and heard that the orchestra balance was off and the French Horn was out of tune. How many times had I spun this record at raqdio stations in the '70s and why had I never heard this before? Ok, that was a wakeup call. A couple years later, I ran into Ted at NAMM 2016, heard his new Equator D8 MK II and snagged a pair — right before his company went out of business in 2017. I still have them and love 'em paired with a JBL subwoofer. Can't say I would recommend a company that is long out of business, though. Anyway, I have them calibrated with an IK ARC Studio though I prefer their older ARC 4 app to the current ARC X. In addition, I have the Slate VSX headphone system. That project that let me know my KRK monitors suck is still one of my reference recordings.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
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I do have excellent Genelec active monitors made in Finlan and standard in many studios around the world. Even tho I haven't done any insulation or acoustical treatment, those Genelec give quite neutral feedback of what I've produced specially, when I have to listen in the mid field, because of so small room. But, as mentioned before, for the sake of the rest living in the same house, I'm usually using high qulity calibrated headphones for recording and mixing. I'm happy with this set up, as it's just home studio for pass time of a retired old man and not a commercial recording studio I'm not competing with.
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...and there's no way to know how they perceive it until it's out there.
I retired a few months ago and have been trying to spend time in the studio, mainly on refreshing old stuff I have on SoundCloud. Haven't done anything new in a long time. Haven't been here in a long time either. Anyway....
First, I go through my music CD's to find a good reference song and then I rip it to a Reference Music folder on the DAW and import it to the mix and eventual master projects.
Once I have a mix/master I'm happy with, I export a 16 bit wav file and burn it to a CD (cd-r are fairly cheap). Then I take both the reference and my song CD's to the Kia and the Ford for listens. I repeat the mix/master/car tests as many times as it takes.
Then I upload the wav file to SoundCloud (Private) and listen on my phone/earbuds and on an Anker SoundCore. I stream the reference song also on those same devices matching levels as best I can.
I'm getting tired of the car tests though. But I still have a CD player and an old Peavey powered mixer and PA speakers which I hope will replace the car tests. Again, I'll listen to the reference and my song on that same system.
I've stopped using SonarWorks. I have a partially treated room, and I bought a pair of powered Auratone's not too long ago to go with a pair of Kali IN 5 monitors. I know about the EQ trick to highlight the mid-range, but I got the Auratone's anyway $$. I find they do help me get closer to a good mix sooner.
Scott
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...and there's no way to know how they perceive it until it's out there.
I retired a few months ago and have been trying to spend time in the studio, mainly on refreshing old stuff I have on SoundCloud. Haven't done anything new in a long time. Haven't been here in a long time either. Anyway....
First, I go through my music CD's to find a good reference song and then I rip it to a Reference Music folder on the DAW and import it to the mix and eventual master projects.
Once I have a mix/master I'm happy with, I export a 16 bit wav file and burn it to a CD (cd-r are fairly cheap). Then I take both the reference and my song CD's to the Kia and the Ford for listens. I repeat the mix/master/car tests as many times as it takes.
Then I upload the wav file to SoundCloud (Private) and listen on my phone/earbuds and on an Anker SoundCore. I stream the reference song also on those same devices matching levels as best I can.
I'm getting tired of the car tests though. But I still have a CD player and an old Peavey powered mixer and PA speakers which I hope will replace the car tests. Again, I'll listen to the reference and my song on that same system.
I've stopped using SonarWorks. I have a partially treated room, and I bought a pair of powered Auratone's not too long ago to go with a pair of Kali IN 5 monitors. I know about the EQ trick to highlight the mid-range, but I got the Auratone's anyway $$. I find they do help me get closer to a good mix sooner.
Scott Hi, Scott! Thanks for sharing your process, very informative. FWIW, I used CDs and then USB drives to audition music in my car for many years. Now I use my phone to access my Dropbox account via the Soundcloud app. All my masters are on Dropbox for sharing anyway, so it's really cut down on the time to get a song set up for the car. I'll usually listen in the car from my phone on both a Bluetooth and a wired USB connection, since they sound very different. YMMV.
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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