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Hi all,
I've not previously tried the "Key signature change" option on the F5 dialog.
For me at present the option is greyed out.
Anyone know why and how to enable it?
What I'm trying to do is play the first two choruses in one key, play the middle choruses in another key and the final two choruses in a third key, or I could make the choruses twice the length so it becomes one - middle - final. Any tips to best do that whilst allowing the number of choruses to be changed?
Thanks,
Gordon.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Gordon, key change under F5 is working for me. Think you may need to unfold the file to change the key of the choruses after the first one. In other words, think all the choruses have to be in the same key. (The term "chorus" is not intuitive to many, as "chorus" is the term BiaB uses for each loop of the entire song)
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Hi Gordon. Check the Chorus # dropdown menu. For example... If I set this to Chorus #2 when my song is just a single chorus, the key signature option is grayed out (see the image below). When I set this option to "all choruses", the key signature change works fine. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=32465&filename=key signature in bar settings greyed out.jpg) --Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 04/06/26 03:04 PM.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Hi Noel,
I can confirm part of that ... the option is greyed out when I select chorus #2 and not greyed out for All Choruses, however my song does have multiple choruses (5). I just tried an RTFS Most, but that didn't help.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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Hi Gordon.
It sounds like using key changes might not be working properly.
If you have a 5-chorus song, it's reasonable to expect the key change to be to be implemented on chorus #2. That said, I have never used multiple choruses and it is possible that the key signature change in Bar Settings is limited and is only available on all choruses. It's worth mentioning to the development team, though, in case there is an issue.
For what it's worth the Key Signature setting in "Edit | Transpose | Transpose from... to..." only works on a single chorus. Unfortunately, this transpose does not add the new key signature like the setting in Bar Settings does.
--Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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I am a bit confused about the function of changing a key in a BIAB Chorus? I don't believe a key change will effect any chord which you have written in the grid chart. So since you are cycling the chord chart, which is not changing, I am not sure you should expect to hear any thing different. Perhaps, you may be assuming that the generation of the tracks will be different based on the key. That I can not confirm or refute. But I have never seen that happen in BIAB.
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Dan,
The key change function in Bar Settings adds a new key signature at the location specified. As you correctly point out, it doesn't change the chord sheet. This is valuable in two ways...
1) If the lead sheet is printed, it shows those who use the lead sheet useful information.
2) To some extent, the key directs BIAB's choice of clips. For example, if you generate a solo on a C chord and you are temporarily in the key of G minor, you don't necessarily want to have a Bb or Eb notes in the solo or background tracks. So, if a song's main key is C major and there is a section that is temporarily in the key of G minor, it's usually better to set the key for that temporary section. Not doing this is like leaving the main key in BIAB set to C while you use create a song in G minor.
In relation to point 2), I've found over the years that if I use a temporary key change in the harmony, I get better generation results if I set the correct key for those few bars that are in a different key from the main key.
--Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Ya that makes sense from a music theory perspective, however, for point 2 -I just have never seen that behavior BIAB - don't mean you aren't correct, just that I never seen that happen in BIAB - Maybe I will try a few experiments to test it out. thanks Dan
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Having read a few posts on this topic, one THEORY is that only the BiaB-generated soloist and/or melody tracks use this info. I agree with DrDan: I've never heard a key change that made a difference. Then again, I generally don't have BiaB generate solos or melodies.
Just a thought. As I hinted, this could be wrong.
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Hi Gordon.
It sounds like using key changes might not be working properly. I agree. It seems that it offers only to change key "to" a key and it offers in only on "All choruses", which means all it can really do is change the key during the intro, or at some time during the first chorus, because any other such "change" will always be to the same key, so will have no effect. In practice it doesn't actually seem to do anything anyway. The key signature doesn't change, there's no transposition of any kind (maybe that's reasonable, but it's what I wanted). The song in question has two "Intro" choruses in Cm, solos in Dm and two "coda" choruses in Fm, which seems probably impossible using options like the F5 or the practice modes (IIRC there's an option to change each chorus by n semitones). The conclusion has to be that I set the total number of choruses I want, unfold the song, then transpose areas to suit; the key signature will just have to stay as it is. I'll try that and see how it works out.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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In practice it doesn't actually seem to do anything anyway. This is correct. This setting is not a transposing tool (those are found under the main key setting or the Edit menu). The change only appears on the chordsheet as a red line beneath the bar number that it was applied to. Also, the main key signature remains unchanged and only shows the starting key. In Notation View and Lead Sheet View, though, the key sigs show up. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=32472&filename=key signature F5.jpg)
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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I'd been looking for a transpose option on the F5 options, where I thought it existed, but found the key change instead and, though it's probably correct that it shouldn't transpose ... that's really, I think, a different function. It's still something of a puzzle to me that it's disallowed on the numbered choruses.  I think I shall largely ignore the key signature, do an 'unfolded' intro, an unfolded coda, and then at least I can vary the number of inner 'solos' choruses. A bit clumsy perhaps, but it should be workable. I hadn't thought to look at the notation and lead-sheet views. OK, then it does do something.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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Gordon,
If you want to change the key of a range of bars, the way that I do that is to use "Edit | Transpose | Transpose From... To...". When this is used, it does not set the key signature to the new key. That's where the Bar Settings key change is needed.
--Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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I’m following this of course for all the reasons listed, and I have one more reason.
In the Tips and Tricks Forum, I wrote a sticky article about BIAB not always playing the chords that you wrote. When you do not change from the default key of C and proceed to enter chords in a key that should have a different key signature, particularly one with several flats or sharps, you can get odd and sometimes ‘wrong’ notes, and odd enharmonic choices. I'm puzzled by this mention of seeing - not seeing - the key signature, and whether the point is for printing or whether it actually affects the algorithm for choosing what we hear.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks Noel. I guessed there should be something like that, though was resigned, if there wasn't, to do it the hard way. Matt, Yes, that issue is one that's been in my mind throughout this. As a jazz guy, 'adventurous'  chords are mostly OK anyway, but I was also thinking how others would see it.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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OK, here's what I did. Fairly straight-forward once one knows.
I set the song to two choruses and unfolded to get a one-chorus song of a double-chorus length.
I did copy-special from...to create two new double choruses, inserting the bars and transposing up each new chorus by two semitones.
I then did a Transpose from...to to transpose the third chorus up a further semitone.
I set the chorus start in the main control to the second chorus, and I set the length as that of the second chorus, which greys out the third chorus.
I set the chorus repeats to a multiple.
I used Edit->Song form to set the third chorus as a tag.
I removed the turnaround from the end of the tag and tidied the song ending.
That seems to have worked out pretty well.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 04/11/26 04:11 AM. Reason: typos
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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Transposing up a minor third can be a powerful and effective modulation. It changes by three accidentals, enough to trigger different reactions from BIAB.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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