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You should really check out the IK Multimedia group buy at Esoundz. For $49, you could get Omnisynth 2 (a GM module that works well in BIAB) and the acoustic guitar Xpansiontank. Since it's a group buy, you can also choose 2 other Xpansiontank title (such as the pianos or basses). If the group buy hits 2500, you can choose another title. The sounds play through the included Sampletank XT, which is a full version, minus the L or XL sounds.
I have Omnisynth 2 and it alone is much better than TTS-1/Hypercanvas. The acoustic guitar set is pretty good too, IMO.
Of course, RTs are still my preferred sound...
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Quote:
You should really check out the IK Multimedia group buy at Esoundz. For $49, you could get Omnisynth 2 (a GM module that works well in BIAB) and the acoustic guitar Xpansiontank. Since it's a group buy, you can also choose 2 other Xpansiontank title (such as the pianos or basses). If the group buy hits 2500, you can choose another title. The sounds play through the included Sampletank XT, which is a full version, minus the L or XL sounds.
I have Omnisynth 2 and it alone is much better than TTS-1/Hypercanvas. The acoustic guitar set is pretty good too, IMO.
Of course, RTs are still my preferred sound...
I'll have to disagree a bit here but it depends on how you work. I have the full Sampletank with Omnisynth and Sonicsynth with something like 4,000 instruments. Yes, Omnisynth is a pretty good sounding GM bank but it does not just load up and play seamlessly like the other synths we're talking about here. As you know you have to manually set up each instrument for each song. That may or may not be a big deal though. For me it is because I do all kinds of different stuff but Bob sounds like he's only doing bluegrass and that's it. He may be satisfied with creating one custom soundbank in Sampletank for all his stuff and be happy as a clam. If he's ok with that, then realize that GM is irrelevant. He can set up a custom soundbank using killer non GM sounds in any synth and do the same thing especially if all he's using is 3 or 4 basic instruments. You don't need or care about a GM bank for that, find a synth that has the sounds you like.
The really cool thing about using a good GM synth that loads up and just plays with Biab is when you go through a bunch of different songs with different instrumentation. If one song has acoustic bass, electric piano and vibes and the next has electric bass, acoustic piano, a guitar and sax, it's cool that Biab can just grab those instruments from the synth without any input from you. Using Omnisynth, you're stopping, going into the Sampletank control panel and changing the instruments on whatever midi channel Biab put them on.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Omnisynth 2 has a program change script that loads patches automatically, based on what instruments BIAB sends to Sampletank. It's not perfect - drums won't load properly - but it does work for the other instruments. The script is just a text file and it's very easy to modify.
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I appreciate all the tips and suggestions. I’ve been out of town for a couple of days and haven’t been able to respond. I think Bob, aka jazzmammal, made some points I should address in order to clarify what I’m looking for: Quote:
I have the full Sampletank with Omnisynth and Sonicsynth with something like 4,000 instruments. Yes, Omnisynth is a pretty good sounding GM bank but it does not just load up and play seamlessly like the other synths we're talking about here. As you know you have to manually set up each instrument for each song. That may or may not be a big deal though. For me it is because I do all kinds of different stuff but Bob sounds like he's only doing bluegrass and that's it. He may be satisfied with creating one custom soundbank in Sampletank for all his stuff and be happy as a clam. If he's ok with that, then realize that GM is irrelevant. He can set up a custom soundbank using killer non GM sounds in any synth and do the same thing especially if all he's using is 3 or 4 basic instruments. You don't need or care about a GM bank for that, find a synth that has the sounds you like.
The really cool thing about using a good GM synth that loads up and just plays with Biab is when you go through a bunch of different songs with different instrumentation. If one song has acoustic bass, electric piano and vibes and the next has electric bass, acoustic piano, a guitar and sax, it's cool that Biab can just grab those instruments from the synth without any input from you. Using Omnisynth, you're stopping, going into the Sampletank control panel and changing the instruments on whatever midi channel Biab put them on.
Actually I play several different styles of music, not just bluegrass. But these other styles have been addressed with some good versions of Real Styles and Real Tracks, therefore I can get good sounds for these styles. Most all of the Real Styles, Real Tracks and midi styles for bluegrass, newgrass and dawg music are written with the wrong note value. They are programmed in 16th’s instead of 8th’s. They are written in 8th’s.
We actually had a pretty lengthy discussion here on the forum about this a few months ago. Peter Green joined the discussion with several posts, as did several other members, so I won’t try to restart that debate. Peter said the problem would be addressed in the future. But changes in the program sometimes take quite a while.
In the meantime, I wish I could find a “good GM synth that loads up and just plays with Biab”, as Bob stated. I don’t want to have to tweak the synth for each song I load.
But as Mac pointed out:
Quote:
Be advised that one can sample an acousic guitar out the wazoo, get perfect loops, etc. -- yet when played back in a MIDI file, they can still sound quite unrealistic.
We all tend to be more critical about the MIDI instrument(s) that we actually play and love than the other sounds. That's typical. A pianist hates the MIDI piano, most guitar players find the piano to be authentic to their ears, etc.
So I may be out of luck until PG addresses the note value problem for bluegrass and newgrass in Real Tracks and Real Styles. I’ve used BIAB for 10 years or more and this has always been my one gripe about the program.
Thanks all.
Bob
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I honestly don't get it. Didn't you read my post? Sampletank's Omnisynth 2 now has a script that takes care of program changes for GM. You only have to "tweak" it once when BIAB first loads up by loading the script. After that, it adjusts to each song that you play, loading the correct instrument as defined by BIAB. Jazzmammal's info is wrong and dated. What he said used to be true, but no longer is.
But I don't care. If you don't believe me and $49 for Sampletank XT and 4 (soon to be 5) soundsets is too much for you, then there's nothing more that I can say.
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Dan, Please don't take offense where none was intended. I did read your post. Quote:
Omnisynth 2 has a program change script that loads patches automatically, based on what instruments BIAB sends to Sampletank. It's not perfect - drums won't load properly - but it does work for the other instruments. The script is just a text file and it's very easy to modify.
I also read your other posts and I appreciate the tips. I also went to the website and read up on it and bookmarked the site.
The Omnisynth 2 may be the route I choose based on your recomendation.
I'm just hesitant to purchase another synth that I have never used before, only to discover that I'm not satisfied with the sounds. I wish I knew someone locally who had the synth so I could try it out before I buy, but I don't.
Bob
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Bob, don't mind my minor rants...
Anyway, I guess I can't really blame your hesitation, really. Each person has their own expectations about certain products and it may not be what you want. Personally, I really think the Sampletank group buy is well worth it. The sounds are decent and they are very easy to work with. Is it perfect for BIAB? Well, even with the program change script, it's not that slam dunk software product that we're all looking for. But it's a lot better than the TTS-1 or those ancient soundfonts. When you figure in the group buy, which will probably be 5 for the price of 1 by the weekend, that's $10 a sound module - not bad. And having the "real" version of Sampletank is huge after using the LE version with Expansiontanks.
While some of the sounds are fairly new, Sampletank itself is not a new product at all and they are probably getting ready for a ST3 release soon. But, I think you could blow your money in far worse ways (like the $99 Vi.One synth which is not that great and almost completely useless in BIAB.)
Dan
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Imagine my surprise!  When researching the Roland TTS-1 on Google, I came across this forum from PG Music. http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=228766So the question remains, does the Roland TTS-1 work, (without tweaking), in Windows 7 64 bit? Bob Again, I have Coyote Forte DXi, but the acoustic instruments suck! Roland VSC doesn't work on Win 7 64 bit, but someone made the comment that TTS-1 essentially sounds the same as Roland VSC. If it sounds like the Roland VSC, it would definitely beat the hell out of Coyote Forte DXi if it does work on Win 7 64 bit! Honestly, I'm surprised that PG sells the Coyote Forte DXi! It should be a freebie, offered as a last resort if you can't find anything else that will work.
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 05/01/10 01:17 PM.
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The TTS-1 has the same interface as the Edirol Hyper Canvass and I just install them both on Win 7 / 64 laptop. I am currently
using the Edirol with BIAB and in my opinion it sounds similar to the Roland VSC. I have used TTS-1 with Sonar and it is similar.
Dave
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Dave, Thanks for the info. By the way, I've gotta love the m7b5 in your screen name! Bob
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The free packs has hit 5 now on the IK Multimedia group buy at Esoundz. I finally broke down and jumped in on this. I decided I wanted the acoustic and electric guitars. I've downloaded them and I'm really enjoying what I've tried so far.
I'm off now to download some more. :>)
Later
Jim
I'd be completely happy if I had just one more guitar.
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Bob,
I've sometimes had some success with a slight work around. I usually use this procedure on folk instruments like mando, banjo, harmonica, accoustic guitar etc. Once the midi track is recorded,
I right click on it in power tracks and do a convert to audio. Then I use the pg effects, as well as some third party plugins for tone control, compression, reverb, eq etc until I get something closer to what I wanted. It doesn't always work perfectly, but I have been able to improve the sound and tonal quality of some instruments this way. Costs nothing to try, and it just might be enough for you.
Rob
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Quote:
Omnisynth 2 has a program change script that loads patches automatically, based on what instruments BIAB sends to Sampletank. It's not perfect - drums won't load properly - but it does work for the other instruments. The script is just a text file and it's very easy to modify.
Cool, I definitely stand corrected. I had forgotten to check this thread and missed your reply. Since I got a great deal on a used Roland Sonic Cell, I haven't kept up with what's happening with Sample Tank my bad.
What about the problem of a program change in the middle of a song like a style that changes instruments in the "B" substyle or something? Since Omnisynth samples still take some time to load, that usually locks up Biab because the song is playing at that point. The Forte DXi or the Roland VSC load their entire sampleset into ram when you select them so the change is instant but isn't the Omnisynth GM sampleset too large for that?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I really appreciate the feedback on the DXi’s. I’ve learned a lot from your suggestions.
No doubt that I’m going to have to change DXi’s in order to get “a good GM synth that loads up and just plays with Biab is when you go through a bunch of different songs with different instrumentation”, since “bluegrass” is only one of the styles I play.
One thing I have also concluded is that even when I do upgrade the DXi, whether by software or hardware, is that I’ll still be facing the problem of not having styles programmed in 8th notes for acoustic, (aka bluegrass), music.
I hesitate to use the term “bluegrass” because people who don’t play acoustic music with “traditional” instruments get a mindset that you are talking about “Flatt & Scruggs” style music when you say bluegrass, when nothing could be further from the truth.
The acoustic styles of music that I, (and most of my friends over the years), play would fall into numerous categories ranging from fiddle tunes, traditional, Irish, New Acoustic, newgrass, jazzgrass, Dawg, bluegrass, progressive bluegrass, acoustic country, old time country, alternative country, etc.
Most people who don’t play these styles and then hear it, would throw it all into one lump and call it “bluegrass” because of the acoustic instruments.
There really aren’t any styles in BIAB to address most of these categories because they are all programmed in 16th notes instead of 8th’s. Even the ones that are labeled as 8th’s are actually 16th's, unless I’ve missed one somewhere.
Bob
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