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Hello all,
Having being a light user of cubase for a while now and also beginning to explore more of realband and powertracks I was just wondering how they compare to the better known sequencers such as sonar cubase etc?
I think cubase may have a more polished user interface (I suppose that is a subjective opinion) but I suppose it’s what under the hood of each sequencer that counts.
The point I'm getting to is, if a user proficient in both powertracks and one of the other better known sequencers was to make a recording of a pop band on each, would it be possible to tell which recording was in powertracks and which was in the better known daw?
I would hope that it would not be possible to tell the difference but what do you think?
Thanks
Joe
joe
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If you are using the same soundcard, it doesn't matter which sequencing software you use to get there. It all lies in the D/A to A/D conversion that is in the soundcard itself, if they are all audio tracks.
Trax
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For actual sound I pretty much agree with Trax. Digital audio is what it is, once it hits the convertors in the card and becomes digital, it is a bunch of data, the conversion back returns it to sound. While it's in the machine it is just data.
Some software comes with different plugins, that can instigate a certain 'sound' but at this point we aren't comparing recordings anymore, but the other tools involved.
PGMusic does include nice effects for a lot of stuff. And unique ones too, like ACW, a decent vocal remover and all the basic necessities. Plus they run most DXi VST plugins out there, and there are a lot of them available.
Reaper is developing a way to network the plugins (use separate machine for FX) which seems like a pretty cool concept in theory. However their interface has a bit of a learning curve even for people experienced in recording. PGMusic isn't as pretty, but it is intuitive for many. So they all have their unique features. None of the others have Realtracks though, and they keep getting better and giving more variety.
The user interface is noticable. No argument there.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Joe,
Use what works? My first real DAW was MagixAudio, which for me was a little nuts. But, then again, I didn't know anything about recording. So, I went to ProToolsFree for Windows 98....that was a while ago! Eight audio tracks, and like 24 midi tracks, more than I would ever use. But, I got a ProTools Audiomedia III soundcard for $50, ended up upgrading to ProTools LE 5.x and started learning. At the same time, I had PowerTracks Pro Audio. I found Pro Tools to be much more sophisticated, and a lot more features like piano roll editing, controller editing, etc. Most of these things PowerTracks Pro Audio has now, but I still have problems using them.
I got rid of Pro Tools because it was such a resource hog on my computer, which more than adequately met the requirements for Pro Tools. I moved to Sonar SE 7.x, which is where I'm still at. I can pull Real Tracks and such from Band In A Box into Sonar easily enough, and that makes working with it fairly easy. The manual TOTALLY SUCKS! Unless you've been using Sonar for years, you need to be a genius to figure everything out.
As to PowerTracks and Real Band, the nice thing, the super nice thing, is this forum. I've found no other forum anywhere else that is so willing to answer your questions about PG Music product, and have such a willing, knowledgeable user-base.
I still recommend PowerTracks and Real Band for individuals who are just starting out. It's kind of like (and NO disrespect, Peter and Jeff) 'Fisher-Price, My First DAW.' The GUI isn't slick, it isn't modern, but you know where everything is, and it's easy not to get lost in the sub menus, the buttons are big and well defined, and it really is simple to use. Hand someone who has not done recording before a copy of Pro Tools, or even Sonar, and they'll be lost for a very long time.
In answer to your last question, no one should be able to tell the difference if you record with the same hardware, and apply the same type of effects. Heck, in fact, I can actually use PG Music effects in Cakewalk, and vice versa. Two computers, side by side, both using something like a M-Audio 1010lt, inputs being the same from the mixer/mic pres/etc, both DAWs set the same (i.e, sample rate and bit depth) should give you identical sounds.
Depending on the person doing the mixing, the amount of automation involved, and a lot of other things, one may end up sounding more polished than the other, but I'll tell you this, I won't make book on which one it is. It all depends on how well the person knows the package.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Yup the end result, drink 10 malt liquors or 4 bottles of good french wine, you are in the same ditch or gutter.
I'd suggest given the small investment, cut your teeth on Powertracks Pro and Realtracks, and when the apple snobs get to you try and win the lottery.
Geez, is my perspective skewed?
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Not really, John. Some people have to have 'the biggest and the baddest', and then complain because they don't know how to use it.
Couple of years ago, we had some guy here, bought totally awesome gear, but didn't and wouldn't listen to any of us on how to hook it up correctly. He thought he knew what he was doing, and I even went to far as to draw diagrams and everything, and the guy just didn't listen...but his money bought him some pretty sophisticated stuff.
When you have the need to move up, you can. Until then, PTPA and RB are great places to start, and we both know this.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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See I married the wife because she was the smallest and best and had a dang good swiss army knife she got at 12 years old. She still has it. Don't take it to the US though, weapon of messed up de-struc-tion. Just like me being radioactive I'm da bomb. It's just dye in my blood but ....
The knife has saved my bacon more than once, and sliced some fine back bacon on a wood fire in the bush, bacon wrapped around some nice partridge breasts. Fiddle heads on that ta boot.
AS to your computer being a fruit I reserve comment. Man if you are that in love with a piece of hardware you otter sleep wif it. As to me my machines are just that, like the lawnmower the wife can never start. Right now I'm regarded as a necessity, she took 100 pulls at it and then called me. I sniffed the muffler, primed it about 20 times with the rubber dingy, and gave it a pull and away she went. At first she comes in mad, but then she says why are you always right. I reminded her of the time I spent an hour trying to get a horn to play b flat. Darn tuner didn't work. Kept saying A#..then after an hour it hits me..same dang note...(psst don't tell anyone).
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I use more than one DAW regularly. I use RB and BiaB and even PT a lot, and find them very solid to record and mix on. I use another software called Multitrackstudio. These three make up my studio now, I took Acid Pro, Vegas Pro, and Cakewalk MC 3,4,5 off and do not use them. i find simple to be complex.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Quote:
Not really, John. Some people have to have 'the biggest and the baddest', and then complain because they don't know how to use it.
Couple of years ago, we had some guy here, bought totally awesome gear, but didn't and wouldn't listen to any of us on how to hook it up correctly. He thought he knew what he was doing, and I even went to far as to draw diagrams and everything, and the guy just didn't listen...but his money bought him some pretty sophisticated stuff.
When you have the need to move up, you can. Until then, PTPA and RB are great places to start, and we both know this.
Gary
These are the folks that you buy their stuff off of them for pennies on the dollar.
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I was a long time user of Cakewalk products. Once Real Band came out I shifted to that. I can do everything I need. As to the GUI I have removed that piano at the top and unchecked "use large icons" and it's much better looking. I agree with Gary that on occasion when the thing crashes and the default GUI comes up I go "wow" it does look sort of childish.
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I've only used Powertracks since I started this stuff. While I upgraded to PT2010 - I'm still running PT12.
As for the GUI - I use the Classic Tracks window and seldom the Piano Roll or the Keyboard. I like it simple.
If I want to add RTs I load my SEQ into RB, do the generation and take it back to PT to edit as required.
Oh yeh - I get along fine with XP-SP3 and 512 RAM and a 2.4.
KISS is a great philosophy if you're a hobbyist. I think PT is a great DAW. Childish looking??? Never thought of it at all. What does it matter . . . it works great. The prettier something looks, the more they charge you for it - you get ripped off for a pretty face which may not have much more substance.
Cheers - Ian
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Quote:
The point I'm getting to is, if a user proficient in both powertracks and one of the other better known sequencers was to make a recording of a pop band on each, would it be possible to tell which recording was in powertracks and which was in the better known daw?
Thanks
Joe
No difference at all. Data is data, there are several working pro's on this forum who have gone over this topic many times over the years. Where the difference can lie is in mastering software. If you are advanced enough to understand and use something like Ozone, T-Racks or Sound Forge then maybe you would get some real benefit from using one of the more "sophisticated" DAW's. Those programs are $3-500 just to master your recording. If you're not there yet, then Power Tracks/Real Band is all you need. PT/RB has a complete suite of mastering plug-in's as well and many of the pro's here who know more about it than I do have said those plug-in's are world class. You've got to be a pretty good and experienced recording/mixing/mastering engineer to tell and use the differences between something like Sound Forge and PG Music's plug-ins.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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The problem with plugins is that most folks never crack the thing open and go past the presets. Those are nice as a starting point, but to really learn them you need to study and understand what they do. Then apply them carefully. The PG plugs will do what most others will do, they just require you to know what you want a little more where a plug like Ozone or T-racks will have presets that bring more than one effect into play at one time to give an end result with less fuss.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Quote:
I would hope that it would not be possible to tell the difference but what do you think?
It is generally aknowledged that its your hardware, not your software that determines what your recordings sound like. The choice of software boils down to workflow. You pick the software that you like to work with. In that regard, I'm pretty much stuck in a rut and can't tell you a lot about a variety of software. I've never used Power Tracks or Real Band and not because I look down on them, or because I have to have the biggest and best available. The fact of the matter is that I started out using Cakewalk when it was nothing more than a MIDI sequencer and kept on upgrading through the various moprhs until it became SONAR 8.5. I'm not going to tell you it the best thing on the market because it may not be. I just hate to change, and it is a program that I've been using so long that I know how everything works and I can work at speed. Having to learn new software would slow me down so I don't even look at anything else now.
Keith
2026 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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Thanks for all the great replies. The good thing about realband and powertracks is its possible to do some things more quickly and the realtracks are a great plus for realband.
Joe
joe
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To me The only thing holding PT and RB for that matter from being a top contender is the VSTi timing issue. If that were settled i would most likely use it for almost everything. The ability to start in BiaB, and then move that file to PT or Rb and there add what i want, and then make it sound real is just awesome.
Peter, and team, please find a solution to the VSTi issue as I think it would open up a world of opportunities for users that would be huge.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Quote:
To me The only thing holding PT and RB for that matter from being a top contender is the VSTi timing issue. If that were settled i would most likely use it for almost everything. The ability to start in BiaB, and then move that file to PT or Rb and there add what i want, and then make it sound real is just awesome.
Peter, and team, please find a solution to the VSTi issue as I think it would open up a world of opportunities for users that would be huge.
Yeah, no kidding. If I could use Jamstix to create drum tracks in Real Band I'd be in heaven. I've beaten that dead horse so many times on this forum I'm liable to get arrested for dead horse abuse. There must be some serious hang up in fixing this because Peter has said several times over the last 2 or 3 years that they're working on it and this is about the only thing he's said that about that hasn't been patched.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
To me The only thing holding PT and RB for that matter from being a top contender is the VSTi timing issue. If that were settled i would most likely use it for almost everything. The ability to start in BiaB, and then move that file to PT or Rb and there add what i want, and then make it sound real is just awesome.
Peter, and team, please find a solution to the VSTi issue as I think it would open up a world of opportunities for users that would be huge.
Wonder if I am understanding this correctly?. Does this mean if I try to load a vst instrument etc bass, drums etc into powertracks or realband I am likely to have timing issues with the rest of the midi or audio tracks?
Thanks
Joe
joe
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I knew you were going to ask this, it's fairly complicated. If you're using a VSTi (the i stands for instrument) to simply play back a recorded midi part, no problem. My Jamstix for example will play back any midi drum part perfectly using whatever drum kit I want. What we're referring to here is a VSTi that also is capable of creating it's own parts. Jamstix, BFD, Virtual Guitarist and also effects VST's like rhythmic delay's and others can create parts but those parts have to be linked to the tempo of the song just like the Real Tracks are. It's that tempo linking or matching with the host that does not work in RB/PT. The problem has never been explained fully but best guess is it's a problem with the VST implementation. If you don't have one of those plugin's, you would never notice it but considering the big name ones are not cheap (Virtual Guitarist is $399) it's a bit of a kick in the head to find out about this after you've bought one expecting to use it with RB or PT.
Hmm, I see I still may not be clear here. You're asking if you will have timing issues with a part and the answer is no. If you're using a VSTi as a playback module for any midi part either from a midi file or a Biab part no problem the instrument will follow any tempo changes happening. It's only one of these "special" VSTi's that can create their own parts that have the problem if your trying to use them in that mode. For example Jamstix has a separate "brain" page that's all about using it as a drum machine with tons of control over different rhythms. That function does not work in RB but on another page in the JS menu is the playback only functions. Those are fine.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 05/12/10 08:11 AM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Thank you very much Bob for the detailed explanation. I have the earliest edition of virtual guitarist but don't use it. Probably when making a recording now I take the easiest way out and use the realtracks etc. thanks again  Joe
joe
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