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Journeyman
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I'm currently using FL Studio 9 as my main DAW. I was browsing their forums and came across this post that some of you might find interesting. Seems fairly objective and the article was posted by the FL Studio site admin. http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=45272
"The desire for fame is the last infirmity cast off even by the wise."
Cornelius Tacitus
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Awesome Charlie, That sort of information is floating around out there and has been discussed a few time here and over at other forums. Just goes to show you you can either get involved in a never ending race to perfection, or just record.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Great article, thanks for posting this!
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Quote:
... Just goes to show you you can either get involved in a never ending race to perfection, or just record...
Outstanding article!
While sorting through the information regarding digital audio, recording, and production, it is becoming clear that much of what is presented as "audiophile" or "professional" level software is nothing more than hype.
I've listened to the results of high bit-depth/sampling rate audio tools, and cannot hear the improvement over basic 16/44.1 files. Even the higher bit-depth variable-bit-rate MP3s and Ogg Vorbis compressed files sound as good (to me) as those big 24/96 and 24/192 files produced on expensive DAWs.
It is interesting how, when I mention this to the folks who promote the NEWEST and BIGGEST audio software tools, they tactfully suggest I may need to improve my listening skills, or have my hearing tested... 
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Charlie, something else you've proved - I've heard people bad-mouth FL Studio as simply for 'beats' makers and electronic music makers, but I'm guessing you've made some hot cookin' country on FL Studio.
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Quote:
I've listened to the results of high bit-depth/sampling rate audio tools, and cannot hear the improvement over basic 16/44.1 files. Even the higher bit-depth variable-bit-rate MP3s and Ogg Vorbis compressed files sound as good (to me) as those big 24/96 and 24/192 files produced on expensive DAWs.
It is interesting how, when I mention this to the folks who promote the NEWEST and BIGGEST audio software tools, they tactfully suggest I may need to improve my listening skills, or have my hearing tested...
Been there!
Even though I’m 64 my hearing is still pretty good.
I got into a “friendly” discussion about this with a fellow musician. He insisted that his recordings at 24/96 were superior to my 16/44.1 and I just couldn’t hear it because of my age. He proved it by playing his CD. I just opened another Bud and grinned 
You know you're getting old when a recliner and a heating pad is your idea of a hot date!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I'm glad that I'm not the only one who couldn't tell the difference.  Don S.
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Now, having read the article, there is one item about DAW recording not addressed; on the 'input' side - as this article deals with mainly audio in the DAW and the output quality (which I wholly agree with).
If you have the ability to choose 24 bit depth with your audio card while you record audio, instead of 16 bit depth, there are some distinct advantages to this.
It allows what some might call 'laziness' in paying particular attention to the gain of your input signal relative to the full dynamic range of the A/D conversion. The reason:
For every bit of A/D converter used, there is something called quantization noise. First a little background. When you record audio into your computer, the A/D converter in your interface converts the continuous signal, into a stair-stepped signal, where the height of the steps relate to the bit depth of the converter, and the width of the steps which is related to the sample rate. Quantization noise is the noise that results from the A/D converter deciding which 'stair' to put an instantaneous piece of audio on. Down near zero level, the A/D has to decide - does this audio go on the lowest stair or the next one up? For 16 bit depth, there are 2^16=65536 discreet levels to represent the full analog dynamic range of the input signal. For 24 bit depth, there are 2^24=16777216 discreet levels to represent the full analog dynamic range of the input signal. The steps for 24 bit are much much much smaller.
Imagine a signal down near zero level, and the A/D is flipping back and forth between the lowest stair and the next one up. This results in some actual noise in the reconverted D/A signal.
With 24 bit audio, this noise that results is 48 dB below the noise for 16 bit audio. (There's a 6 dB reduction in quantization noise for every additional bit available in an A/D converter).
One strategy to minimize the effect of this noise for 16 bit audio is to try to maximize the amount of A/D converter dynamic range available for each track. This does take some work, and it does pay off in the end. If you don't follow this strategy, you can experience some 'stack up' of quantization noise across lots of tracks that sounds like hiss in your final mixed signal.
With 24 bit audio, you can actually not worry so much about this - each track has a quantization noise floor 48 dB below what they would be with 16 bit audio - and you can easily live with audio that peaks perhaps 10-15 dB below full-scale and not experience any noticeable 'stack up' of quantization noise.
Run an experiment for yourself to check on file sizes and you'll see that for the same sample rate, 24 bit audio really doesn't eat up all that much more space than 16 bit audio.
Several people here recommend 24 bit audio at 44.1kHz sample rate for recordings of source tracks. I wholly agree and have experienced the benefits of working this way (mainly in the fact that I can set levels more quickly and get on with the task of recording inspiration).
-Scott
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Since there are more and smaller 'steps' (as you described it) each step is also going to be more accurate. Another point about 24 bit is the FX processing. *Most* digital effects will produce better results at 24 bit also. It helps reverbs, etc be more accurate also, and everything else down the line. The caveat with this (in PGMusic products) is some of the effects in the Edit pulldown will not work on 24 bit. The workaround is to use the Edit-Audio effects- Realtime DX FX path. The FX that load thru this route will usually work with 24-bit. Using this path envokes a different set of effects and allows hard-writing 24 bit if desired. Then, of course, comes the dithering.. but that is a whole different subject. 24 bit has to be made to 16 bit for common CD format. Here's a good article to help understand that process if anyone is interested - http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/OzoneDitheringGuide.pdf
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Productor Musical
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Cita:
'...Several people here recommend 24 bit audio at 44.1kHz sample rate for recordings of source tracks. I wholly agree and have experienced the benefits of working this way (mainly in the fact that I can set levels more quickly and get on with the task of recording inspiration)....'
-Scott
I totallyt agree with you on this and everything you stat in your reply. I use to go on 24/44.1 for most audio daily task, like backing tracks, demo songs, clients advertisement stuff for radio, tv and 22/48 for somewhat important projects. Btw, really interesting article.
Carlos
Gabriel Arellano,
Nucleox Music
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Quote:
Charlie, something else you've proved - I've heard people bad-mouth FL Studio as simply for 'beats' makers and electronic music makers, but I'm guessing you've made some hot cookin' country on FL Studio.
rockstar_not, I haven't done any country with it yet. I'm currently trying to get the rock/pop/dance out of my personal system (me). You can record anything that you like with it but you're right about its reputation (used to be called Fruity Loops if you recall). The guys that post songs on the forum are definitely in a different world than me but I learn things from them about FLS9 and recording techniques (ducking and sidechaining). They remix a lot of songs. Check this one out. I love what this guy did with the song (although I had never heard the original). Very creative
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op7ljmEpWKM&feature=player_embedded
Before I read the article I had been thinking of buying a new soundcard. I reviewed a lot of them and came to the conclusion that what I had, M-Audio Audiophile 192, had as good specs as anything on the market so why do I want to waste money (it's an addiction, I want to buy something). After reading that article it simply confirmed what I was thinking.
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Quote:
...Even though I’m 64 my hearing is still pretty good.
I got into a “friendly” discussion about this with a fellow musician. He insisted that his recordings at 24/96 were superior to my 16/44.1 and I just couldn’t hear it because of my age. He proved it by playing his CD...
Sixty-four! You just look like another friggin' teenager to me, fella!
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Assembling this information in such a way that it forms some sort of a cohesive strategy for creating outstanding sound seems like the logical goal.
Too often, folks are inclined to muddy the waters with technical issues which confuse rather than edify. Those who would like us to buy their latest product (which blows last year's out of the water...  ) dispense these misleading bits of audio trivia, and consumers read all about it, feel apprised of new and wonderful possibilities, and shell out the cash for the opportunity to have the latest and greatest. Meanwhile, common sense appears to be in alarmingly short supply...
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Well, with all the great new audio technology we have today, it's amazing how much stuff just sounds like cRAP.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Quote:
Sixty-four! You just look like another friggin' teenager to me, fella!
You had better get your eyes checked ASAP 
You know you're getting old when a recliner and a heating pad is your idea of a hot date!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Quote:
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who couldn't tell the difference.
Don S.
Don,
It takes a bit of courage to admit that one can't hear the dramatic improvement that is supposed to occur when one uses some high-priced gizmo or other 
...and vaguely troubling - when some industry authority says, in fact, the difference is there...
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Quote:
Well, with all the great new audio technology we have today, it's amazing how much stuff just sounds like cRAP.
Agreed
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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Quote:
Well, with all the great new audio technology we have today, it's amazing how much stuff just sounds like cRAP.
Likewise, John, I've heard some spectacular audio from folks using the most primitive software tools.
Sometime, have a listen to "Pink Jimi Photon Pocius". His primary recording/mixing/mastering tool - Audacity - usually on a laptop computer. Some of his stuff is very rough, but that's his style. When he applies himself, however, the listening can get pretty sweet...
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Well you would think some sort of reverse engineering should be involved. After all, take what we can hear, produce the sound through the best gear, and cut off the stuff we can't hear, and then talk to us.
So in reality if a pair of $50 speakers or a file at X size works, and it's good enough tell us for pete's sake.
When it comes to digital, if it's clean it's clean. Much like a song played in a banquet hall, at the end of the night someone might comment on some song I played on a badly tuned piano, but most leave with fond memories of friends, laughs, food, and fellowship, and that riff I threw into Satin Doll, well I was the only one who noticed.
So genius friends, take the average hearing of a 40 year old, and back the thing the other way, and let us know.
Or not. Myths are good as long as you really really buy into them.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who couldn't tell the difference.
Don S.
Don,
It takes a bit of courage to admit that one can't hear the dramatic improvement that is supposed to occur when one uses some high-priced gizmo or other
...and vaguely troubling - when some industry authority says, in fact, the difference is there...
Oren,
It might also mean that my wife is right when she says I'm half deaf.
Don S.
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Quote:
Oren,
It might also mean that my wife is right when she says I'm half deaf.
Don S.
Well, Don,
It seems that we both have the same wife. Ain't she a beauty, though?
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Band-in-a-Box® + ChatGPT = Impressed the BOSS!
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