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Is there a legend for BAIB chord symbols. I know there are some in the manual but I keep coming across stuff thats not in the manual (as far as I can see) . If it is all in the manual then it must be interspersed across chapters. |Is there some kind of quick central 'dictionary'. Maybe on the web?
I got stuck again on the symbol V/VII
thanks
Zero
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Ok so I think I figured that one, talking in C its a g with the B in the root. The VII refers to the VII of hte key rather than the chord. (I think)
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Hi ZeroZero, You are correct. When numbers are used they usually refer to the scale note number in some way. Mostly these numbers mean chords but sometimes they can mean note number. Thus V could be note number 5 (in whatever key) or the triad built on note number 5. After a slash, the number usually means the bass note unless one is using classical harmony. Sometimes people use lowercase (say, ii) to indicate minor triads and uppercase (say, V) to indicate major triads. Such notation is not a BIAB invention and hence it's probably not discussed too much in the book. This notation has been used for centuries and the best place to find information about it is in music theory books. Here's a link that might offer some insight... http://www.studybass.com/lessons/harmony/intro-to-diatonic-chords/Hope this helps  Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 08/17/10 12:52 PM.
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Another question on this thread. BIAB uses 2 in chord sybols. A2,C2 etc... This is not a traditonal symbol is it? Is this some form of a 9th chord?
Thanks
Gadi
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Yes. It is an "add 9" chord, with the ninth voiced (usually) an octave low. No seventh present. Ex. C, D, E, G
Traditional symbol? I would say it has become so.
Last edited by Matt Finley; 08/17/10 01:26 PM.
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C2 us an abbreviation for the Csus2 chord.
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Hi ZeroZero, This page has a list of all the chords that are recognized, as well as all the abbreviations. http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_chordlist.htmKent PG Music
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Also, you should look at the file, pgshortc.txt to see how BIAB interprets entry of certain chords. This is part of that file:
; Note these are already defined in BB, and you can't over-ride these shortcuts
;sus2@2 add2@2 m+@m#5 dim7@dim 7aug@7+ sus4@sus 11@9sus 9sus4@9sus
;13sus4@13sus add9@2 7sus4@7sus s@7sus h@m7b5 d@dim J@MAJ7
; f@7b9 m7+@m7#5 NC@C. no chord l@7Alt u@(Blues) 7u@7(Blues)
; Lyd@lydian Lyd@lyd Lyd@4#
You can see that BIAB interprets an add2, a sus2 and an add9 all as being a 2 chord.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Ooh, all those @ signs with words and letters on either side, the 'bots will get what they deserve from that...
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Very funny! I wonder if there actually is a Lyd@Lydian.com since www.lydian.com is real...
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INTERESTING!
Oh I thought (guessed) that a 'C2' was the second inversion of C (!) Which sounds OK over a C2. I thought the second was called a Ninth CEGD sort of thing, and such a chord would be written as C9. Being a sax player learning keyboards, I dont need to stick too close to a chord on sax and don't have to worry (too much) about spacing/voicings.
Its left me wondering about how a second inversion chord is written and how chords are voiced in general in BIAB.It would be so helpful if you could see the vocings written out. As I work with real tracks this is often not possible I think.
The PG site link above, though useful, seems to list but not explain the voicings.
Zero
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Zero, From a BIAB perspective, the inversion of a chord is determined by the note that the bass plays (unless you have a single guitar or piano accompaniment). With this in mind, by entering the following chords you get, - C = root position
- C/E = first inversion
- C/G = second inversion
For a 7th chord, - C7 = root position
- C7/E = first inversion
- C7/G = second inversion
- C7/Bb = third inversion
The same chords using Roman Numerals (and Nashville Notation) would be, if we assume that we are in the key of C major and we're talking about the C chord, - I = root position (in Nashville notation, 1)
- I/III = first inversion (1/3, Nashville)
- I/V = second inversion (1/5, Nashville)
This next bit is probably useless information but, to mind, it rounds off the story of chords When talking about the way in which inversions are notated in classical music, again if we're in the key of C major and talking about the C chord, we get, - I = root position
- I 6/3 = first inversion (the 6/3 is usually written in superscript with the 6 sitting on top of the 3 and not a slash; often only the 6 is used and 3 is understood)
- I 6/4 = second inversion (again, it's usually written with the numerals in superscript and 6 sits on 4)
I don't know if this information is useful but it might give you some insight. There are lots of different ways to notate chords Regards, Noel P.S. C9 = C dominant 9th = C E G Bb D whereas C2 = C add 9 = C E G D
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Hi Noel,
I understood the first part and am OK with roman numernals and conventional chord symbols.
The second part? Well I dont understand what you mean or its relevence here (this is not meant ot be a rude remark simply a astatement of fact)
The third part re C2 versus C9 adds clarity thanks
Zero
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Yes, Noel correctly commented that C,D, E, G is not C9 because C9 also has the dominant 7th, which in this case would be a Bb. Whole different sound.
Also Noel pointed out that you have some control in BIAB by using the slash root to force an inversion. In my experience, the Real Tracks may or may not follow that. This is not a bad thing; actual players (which the Real Tracks are) would not be limited and will play all kinds of inversions and voicings to make things interesting. You do not have full control over this. However, do you know that, for some of the Real Tracks, you can see what is being played? When you select a Real Track, look over toward the right side for info that includes whether or not notation is provided.
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An UNDERSCORE of the green trackname indicates that notation accomopanies that RealTrack, too.
--Mac
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Quote:
C2 us an abbreviation for the Csus2 chord.
In BiaB, C2 also stands in for Cadd9, which is a completely different chord.
The add9 has an E in it. A C2 does not.
And I wish BiaB would name chords the way probably 99% of the (non jazz) guitarists out there do.
A chord replacing the third with the second, is a Csus2.
A chord replacing the third with the fourth is a Csus4.
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Hi Matt,
Does a breakdown of the particular voicings used by BB for the “Tricky Chords” such as, 7alt and 7(blues) and other’s, exist? Where can I access this if it does? I'm not looking for the theory of these chords but what the actual voicing are when these are entered and sounded by BB.
Thanks,
Peter
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Welcome to the forum, Panos. The answer is No. RealTracks often give you different voicings each time they are generated. This can be good or bad, depending on your goal. Even the MIDI chords can have different voicings, although that can be controlled more tightly by the style.
Perhaps what will help you is the ability of BIAB to audition the chord, so you can learn the sound of it. In the chordsheet, if you do a Shift+Enter, you will hear the chord at the cursor position. Continue to press Shift+Enter and you usually hear a variety of voicings cycled through. The same feature is available with the Chord Builder (right-click to get this) and continue to press the Play button.
Having said all that, there are a few tricks. For example, often BIAB will play a flat nine on a seventh chord. To prevent that, I will sometimes write a ninth chord instead. The more specific you are in naming the chord, the less BIAB will guess. 7alt is the ultimate for guessing, since it means neither the fifth nor the ninth is natural, but after that, all bets are off as to which voicing it chooses. I sometimes like the nebulous 7alt sound, but other times, particularly if there is a clash with the melody note, I write 7#9 etc. to force it to play what I want.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks Matt,
I thought it would be something like that. I'm trying to match with melody. In the print preview I slected the piano read out and tried to get a fix on the voicings there but they didn't seem to be that clear. I give a try to some of your suggestions.
Panos
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