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16+ 2 organ #95277 12/05/10 01:33 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk T tributeman OP Journeyman
OP tributeman Journeyman T Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk	on my yamaha PSR-620 keyboard there is a church type organ called 16 + 2.Ive tried to find out (even from yamaha)what kind of organ this is but no luck.So can anyone here help me on this Cheers Frankie AMD Athlon 7550 dual core processor 2.51 ghz 1 87 gb ram windows 7 Ultimate yamaha rev 500 effects tacam DP-24 DAW Samson Resolv NF monitors Yamaha PSR-620 Keyboard Fender semi accoustic guitar

Re: 16+ 2 organ tributeman #95278 12/05/10 02:21 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	I assume that the 16 is referring to a 16 foot stop, or contabass probably flute. The 2 is a 2 foot long pipe, for a flute sound. If you listen to the patch you should be hearing a high pitch sound and a low bass sound. I'd assume with the 2 it's a set of flute stops, sometimes called flute celeste on some ograns, stopped diapason, or flute bordon. It's possible it's a string stop but I don't think that's likely. Playing any organ properly without a large room is impossible without a pedal and some big time sustain. The notes should go out and die in a taper, like a good horn player playing whole notes, like long carrots, not bricks, or as one of my teachers says bullets not bricks on 1/4 notes. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: 16+ 2 organ John Conley #95279 12/05/10 02:23 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	Unless you are doing jazz b3 or some other thing. I was talking above about church organs. I was once organist for 8 different organizations. I'm down to 2 now, and show up when I can. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: 16+ 2 organ John Conley #95280 12/05/10 02:55 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk T tributeman OP Journeyman
OP tributeman Journeyman T Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk	thanks for the reply John Christmas card on the way.Its a church/chapel sound and is perfect for a song Im writing.I looked at the organs on biab but there was nothing like it and not being a very good keyboard player it now looks as if I might have to get someone in.Cheers Frankie AMD Athlon 7550 dual core processor 2.51 ghz 1 87 gb ram windows 7 Ultimate yamaha rev 500 effects tacam DP-24 DAW Samson Resolv NF monitors Yamaha PSR-620 Keyboard Fender semi accoustic guitar

Re: 16+ 2 organ tributeman #95281 12/05/10 02:57 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk T tributeman OP Journeyman
OP tributeman Journeyman T Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk	just played it and it does have that high pitched and low bass sound.Frankie AMD Athlon 7550 dual core processor 2.51 ghz 1 87 gb ram windows 7 Ultimate yamaha rev 500 effects tacam DP-24 DAW Samson Resolv NF monitors Yamaha PSR-620 Keyboard Fender semi accoustic guitar

Re: 16+ 2 organ tributeman #95282 12/05/10 03:42 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 38,502 Chesapeake, Virginia USA M Mac Veteran
Mac Veteran M Joined: May 2000 Posts: 38,502 Chesapeake, Virginia USA	"16 + 2" is likely the term used for a common jazz b3 tonewheel organ setting. 800000008 Which is the 16' rank at full along with the 2' rank at full, ala Jimmy Smith's opening registration in his famous "Mack the Knife" rendition. In this youtube, taken from a tv show back in the day, Jimmy is "kind of" using the 16+2 on the noodling, adding more of the upper harmonic drawbars to the mix to get that "chewing" kind of needly sound. 800008888 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yfkX8AIU5A Great for the octaves-with-notes-in-between onehand "noodling" as we call it. It is sometimes used along with a bit of the 4' as well, to taste. Of course, the famous Hammond Chorus provided by the scanner circuit, makes for a dramatic and animated sound. Leslie on full stop when doing this. I doubt it has anything to do with pipe organ registrations at all. --Mac PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here You must be Audiominds. www.audiominds.com

Re: 16+ 2 organ Mac #95283 12/05/10 03:51 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	Well my organ downtown in the 'loft' has a 16/2 setting says Flute Celeste, and all the numbers correspond to pipe organ settings, but I have a cousin with a Phd organ major might clarify for me, if I can find her, she travels... John Conley Musica est vita

Re: 16+ 2 organ John Conley #95284 12/05/10 04:04 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	From a list of stops of one famous organ: # 4 Flute ranks, 16'-2', 16'-2', 8', 8' Reuter Opus #822 Now if you can't tell a B3 and a Pipe Organ apart, yer deafer than John. Anyway, he says it sounds like a church organ, in these parts there were Hammond organs in churches, but I never saw a B3. The loft Organ I used to play every Christmas before they cancelled the thing had a full set of pedals and an octave and a half keyboard at the bottom to a set of chimes with the longest being 8 feet. They sat beside the organ, and I played them a few times and everyone got very excited. The organ broke and I took in a keyboard and the wife had the flute and we played for a memorial service for the Head Masonic Canuck and I played the chimes on the keyboard and everyone was sure I had played that big organ. Hilarious. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: 16+ 2 organ Mac #95285 12/05/10 04:11 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk T tributeman OP Journeyman
OP tributeman Journeyman T Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk	Mac,Its definately a church/chapel organ sound eg "Precious Lord" by Elvis Presley take a listen.Cheers Frankie AMD Athlon 7550 dual core processor 2.51 ghz 1 87 gb ram windows 7 Ultimate yamaha rev 500 effects tacam DP-24 DAW Samson Resolv NF monitors Yamaha PSR-620 Keyboard Fender semi accoustic guitar

Re: 16+ 2 organ John Conley #95286 12/05/10 05:10 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 38,502 Chesapeake, Virginia USA M Mac Veteran
Mac Veteran M Joined: May 2000 Posts: 38,502 Chesapeake, Virginia USA	Quote: Now if you can't tell a B3 and a Pipe Organ apart, yer deafer than John. In 1937, Laurens Hammond was taken to court by the US Federal Trade Commission. brought about by various members of the pipe organ mfrs and community, and an investigation, complete with federal judge, was launched into whether or not he would be allowed to continue to call his invention an "organ." This investigation went on for about a year before Laurens Hammond proposed that a blind test between his instrument and a real pipe organ be used to solve the problem. A live comparison with the E.M. Skinner pipe organ at Chicago's Rockefeller Memorial Chapel was allowed, with a panel of judges that included leading well known pipe organists. conductors and music authorities, some PhDs were in that bunch, John. Hammond put one of his electric organs inside the same chapel, powered by several of his own Tone Cabinets - no Leslie speaker, Laurens did not like the Leslie speaker, believe it or not. Long story short, the distinguished panel of musicologists were unable to identify the Hammond organ over the Skinner pipe organ. Matter of fact, the results were all over the place. The "experts" could not tell the Hammond from the Pipe Organ. Hammond won the right to call the instrument an organ, However, it was also stipulated at the same time tht he could not claim "an infinite number of tones" in advertising, as only 253 million combinations are actually possible. 1937 The model E, designed to be used in churches, is introduced. It is the first Hammond with a full 32-note pedalboard, built according to American Guild of Organists. Of course, pride and prejudice still live in the hearts of many, facts have nothing to do with it... --Mac sources: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HISTORY+OF+THE+HAMMOND.-a0200786721 http://chsmedia.org/media/fa/fa/M-H/HamOrg-inv.htm PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here You must be Audiominds. www.audiominds.com

Re: 16+ 2 organ tributeman #95287 12/05/10 05:13 PM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 38,502 Chesapeake, Virginia USA M Mac Veteran
Mac Veteran M Joined: May 2000 Posts: 38,502 Chesapeake, Virginia USA	Quote: Mac,Its definately a church/chapel organ sound eg "Precious Lord" by Elvis Presley take a listen.Cheers Frankie Cool. As John has pointed out, there is also a pipe registration of that name. It is quite likely that the B3 world adopted the same terminology for those two drawbars pulled. The brown 16' and the White 2' drawbars are both sinewaves and thus Flutes in pipe organese. --Mac PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here You must be Audiominds. www.audiominds.com

Re: 16+ 2 organ Mac #95288 12/05/10 05:47 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	The manual for the PSR in question states Church ORGAN 16' 2' Every Pipe Organ, going back centuries, uses this as a description for the pipes of those lengths. The midi numbers say 33 If I remember, (I just glanced at it). I need not look at the stops on the Grand organs of the world. E. Power Biggs, the Englishman responsible for the revival of classical organ building in the USA, championed organs of the type in use when the pieces were written, but no doubt in some minds Bach's Four Great Toccatas & Fugues were composed first by a resident of some colony and played best on a 'Hammond' Organ, for it sounds the same as the organ in the Basillica Notre Dame, or the one in Notre Dame de Paris, that grand organ with some 7000 pipes is a mere facade of the one's build by Hammond Organ. Zut Alors. I do have some great Bach done on period organs, but it's odd, there's not an American organ amongst them. I'm sure when Yamaha says "DrawBar Organ" in the earlier positions, it is due to the fact that they cannot call it a B3. I guess some enterprising soul should buy up Hammonds and install them throughout France and Germany, for if they sound the same, those folks could pretend those pipes work and save a bundle in refurbishment costs. Now to dig out Mr. E Power Biggs and get the wife off the opera CD's for a few hours. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: 16+ 2 organ John Conley #95289 12/05/10 06:09 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,199 Lakewood, WA 98498 Gary Curran Veteran
Gary Curran Veteran Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,199 Lakewood, WA 98498	Frankie, I thought I posted something here, but it doesn't seem to have shown up. I thought the PSR-620 was equipped with Digital Drawbars, but it doesn't have them. I also was looking on ebay for the UK, and I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-i3-/150526764445?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item230c18259d This is the original Korg i3, or Interactive Arranger, the granddaddy of my PA80 and PA800 arranger keyboards. If you can get this, this will be leaps and bounds above your PSR-620. The sounds and backing tracks were really, really good for it's day. In fact, this keyboard really took the concept of 'Arranger' keyboards upscale, to the level of almost pro, and a lot of pros did do composing on them. If you can afford it, or are near the area, I would take a considerable look at getting this. If you have some funds laying around and want to invest in a better keyboard, you might look at the Korg PA50. This is the slightly smaller brother to the Korg PA80, and does not have digital drawbars, but is a great keyboard. http://cgi.ebay.com/Korg-PA50SD-Professi...=item3f05730f8a All the songs on this page, down to where it says PA800, were created on the PA80, which has the exact same sound set as the PA50, except the drawbars. http://www.catsmeowcafe.com/musicwork.html Personally, I would just about kill to get this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-PA2XPRO-KEYBOAR...=item3cb31b688a Oh, by the way, can you tell I like Korg? http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-PA1X-Workstatio...=item255f64a0a8 The forerunner to the PA800, and smaller version of the PA1X-Pro. A great keyboard, and a good price, since it was over $2,000US. I had this as my first keyboard http://cgi.ebay.com/Korg-ix300-Interacti...=item3f0583c68e The iX300 was the step up from the i3, used the same sounds as the M1 keyboard and was a great sounding keyboard. Anyway, I'll stop bombarding you with new keyboards. However, I do want to say that any of those keyboards will be a step up from your PSR-620 as far as sound goes, and they're all good keyboards. The PSR-620 was a top keyboard in it's day, but as you can see, for not a whole lot of money, you can move upstream some. Gary I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!

Re: 16+ 2 organ Gary Curran #95290 12/05/10 06:41 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	Does it use 720k diskettes? Mine is state of the ark an has that function. Works well, but it's such a pain to do. Mp3 player replaced it. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: 16+ 2 organ John Conley #95291 12/06/10 04:47 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk T tributeman OP Journeyman
OP tributeman Journeyman T Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk	gary Im not a keyboard player and only bought the keyboard about 10 years ago for its accompianment.i have held a few chords to give background to my songs but I was hoping this organ would have been in biab but it wasnt. hehehe! Its great to see 2 "monsters of rock" Mac & John locking horns on this I never thought a small organ would bring about such a debate.Frankie AMD Athlon 7550 dual core processor 2.51 ghz 1 87 gb ram windows 7 Ultimate yamaha rev 500 effects tacam DP-24 DAW Samson Resolv NF monitors Yamaha PSR-620 Keyboard Fender semi accoustic guitar

Re: 16+ 2 organ tributeman #95292 12/06/10 05:27 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	I'm no rocker. I've played organs for a long time, but prefer keyboards. I did once make a bit of a trip to Montreal to hear my cousin play a huge pipe organ, and spent the weekend there and during Saturday sat beside her while she finished her preparations. She had a priest who played Bach do some pieces and we stood in the nave and listened. It was amazing to see 2 coffins in the place, the bodies in coffins hoisted about 30 feet in the air and a big mirror was over the face, flowers cascading upwards towards the corpses. Someone played that organ almost all day, the families of the deceased came and went, and there were masses at 9 12 3 6 and 9 Every Day. Heck I lived in many small parishes in Quebec and the catholic churches had Mass at 9 and 12 every day in the late '60's and early '70's and . Like a lot of subjects I didn't take, it's the books. For example I never took philosophy, but I have all the major texts, and a bookshelf full of what I thought mattered, and am prepared to discuss existentialism in literature from the perspective of Albert Camus, in French if you wish. I'm sure I can hold my own with most 3 year Philosophy majors. I cannot however hold my own with my 36 year old son who should have his Phd in a few months, I learned that he had honed his skills to a fine edge, and he can read and understand a 300 page textbook in a few hours. The key is understand, they he start pulling out quotes. The best I can do is read the book in a day and I need to fish for things, I remember them but not verbatim. Oh well. I have some books here on the major organs of the world, one with a description of stops, and they are now useless because you can get as good or better on the net. My wife and I are going to London and Paris in the spring, and there are 3 organs I'd like to hear. I have but 3 weeks. Although 3 members of my family were wounded in the 2 World Wars, I've never been to the battlefields, and that's on the agenda. And the Musee D'Orsay, for the impressionists. I insist on Aix-en Provence, (its an art thing). You won't get much rock from John. Bach, Mozart, Strauss, Verdi, Elgar.....and many others fill my day John Conley Musica est vita

Re: 16+ 2 organ John Conley #95293 12/06/10 05:40 AM Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 38,502 Chesapeake, Virginia USA M Mac Veteran
Mac Veteran M Joined: May 2000 Posts: 38,502 Chesapeake, Virginia USA	I'm more of a Jazzer who was raised and educated with the Classical background. The Rock & R&B experience more or less just happened. There were these paying gigs... Then came an era of studio work in which I got to excercise every genre and had to quickly learn to cover a few others as well. Oh, the sheer larceny of it all. --Mac PGmusic FAQs, Tutorials and Updates! click here You must be Audiominds. www.audiominds.com

Re: 16+ 2 organ John Conley #95294 12/06/10 06:34 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk T tributeman OP Journeyman
OP tributeman Journeyman T Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 589 uk	"'m no rocker" Yeah I knew that John it was tongue in cheek.. also it sounded better than Monsters of pipe/jazz organ playing.Frankie AMD Athlon 7550 dual core processor 2.51 ghz 1 87 gb ram windows 7 Ultimate yamaha rev 500 effects tacam DP-24 DAW Samson Resolv NF monitors Yamaha PSR-620 Keyboard Fender semi accoustic guitar

Re: 16+ 2 organ Mac #95295 12/06/10 07:09 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	Frankie, I'm in London (the other one across the pond) for Easter. Westminster Abby for Easter Sunday? On the Monday we are taking the train to Glasgow and then the adventure of renting a car and driving to Islay. This music has a permanent place on my piano, if I start to play it the wife unpacks the flute and I have to try and figure out someway to stay off the melody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-_DA1c1EhQ&feature=related Note in the open position you can see the 2' pipes.....LOL. John Conley Musica est vita

Re: 16+ 2 organ John Conley #95296 12/06/10 07:10 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada John Conley Veteran
John Conley Veteran Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 8,333 London, Ontario, Canada	and did those feet, in ancient times, .....G O A L..... LOL John Conley Musica est vita

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