PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Looking for advice on remastering 30 year old songs I've written

I’ve got a bunch, (25-30), of old songs I’ve written and recorded about 30 years ago that I’d like to remaster in order to clean them up and try to make them sound a little better. They are stereo wma files, so my options are pretty limited on what I can do with them.

Mac took one of these old songs, Sweetest Personality, and remastered it for me and he definitely made it sound much better. I’m pretty sure he used Audacity to work on it. It’s posted on my SoundCloud site with before and after versions. I really appreciate him working on it for me because I know he put a lot of time into it.

The songs were recorded in the following manner:
Tascam 4 track Portastudio cassette
1st track was always a click track recorded with a mechanical metronome
2nd track was rhythm guitar, using a Martin D35 acoustic recorded using a Martin Thinline pickup. If the rhythm was electric, it was a Fender American Stratocaster played through a Roland JC-120 amp
3rd track was a Fender Precision bass

I would then start combining and bouncing tracks to make room until I ended up with 6-10 tracks on the songs.

I obviously can’t do anything to individual tracks now since I’m left with stereo wma files to work with, but I’m looking for tips on remastering them.

Which program out of the following would you use and why? (Note: These are programs I have). Audacity or RB 2009? I'm leaning toward Audacity.

For example, what frequencies should I be looking at on an EQ for the following if I want to boost or cut them:

01. Acoustic guitar
02. Electric guitar
03. Bass
04. Vocals

Any other tips would be appreciated. The styles of the songs run the gamut from folk to folk rock, country, pop, etc. No bluegrass because I hadn’t reached that “stage” in my playing as far as writing songs.

As always, thanks in advance for any ideas you may have.

I used the EQ only for general shaping of the entire soundfile, not looking to try to use it to single out separate tracks, which is next to impossible to do since there was a lot of overlap along the spectrum.

Sometimes one can make use of a Multiband Compressor plugin to bring out an instrument that may be habitating in an area of the spectrum where you can do so. A Multiband Compressor is like having two or more compressors that have an EQ section before them, such that you can apply different compression settings to different parts of the sound spectrum. I used a 3-band Multicomp on that file IIRC, but don't ask me about settings and such for I couldn't tell you because I use my ears and not any set formulas, knowing what each of the controls do.

I used both Audacity and MultiTracksStudio to get that wo where it is now. MTS only because of its fine quality multiband comp and limiter, to my ears. You could use just about any quality recording software to do this as it is more a situation of knowing both your software, knowing the tools and using them well plus a trained ear.

It also involves knowing "when to stop" as one can only do so much to files like these. Looking for the pristine audiophile quality soundfile from such would only be an excercise in frustration.

Rharv's "Mastering Matters" is a good place to get the rest your files remastered, BTW.


--Mac

I see Mac already pointed out multi-band compression. Not having heard the files yet, but listening to your description of them, that's probably the tool I would head for first as well.

I don't do much in the way of old recording 're-mastering', but I have used a 'mastering' plugin from Mackie called Acuma Final Mix, to take rather dull and lifeless 2 track files recorded off of a live sound console, and really bring them to life coupled with tasteful amounts of reverb added to the output.

Here's what the Final Mix plugin has in it's signal chain in series:

1. 6 band parametric EQ
2. 3 band compression / dynamics section with very flexible controls and x-y readouts per band
3. 6 band parametric EQ
4. Limiter with some controls on how hard the knee is

It also has about 50 application specific presets. The presets are very interesting to study because of their specialized combinations of settings of the above signal chain specific to particular applications. It's very easy to audition them quickly and study how the controls are set and learn some of the skill that Mac has acquired over the years. When I use this plugin now, I don't audition more than a few presets because I know what I'm looking for now, and then I fine tune/tweak those presets from there.

If I can get permission from the band leader of the gig I played in last weekend, I'll post some before/after snippets of what was done to liven up the rather dead sounding off-the board 2 track recording .

The reason I mention this plugin is because it can actually be had quite cheaply complete with the Tracktion DAW software, bundled in with various Mackie small format mixers. For example the Mackie ProFX8 mixer/USB interface for $229 comes bundled with Tracktion 3, which bundles in very nice channel strip plugins as well as this particular plugin. If you may be in the market for a new interface or mixer, this is a nice little throw-in that can help you do do this on your own with very capable tools.

I do think it's wise to heed Mac's advice about knowing when to stop and being realistic about what your goals are for the final product.

I'd take a crack at one of your files if you like, just for the challenge it presents. Send me a PM with a link to one of the source files if you're interested.

Scott,

The Mackie ProFX8 mixer/USB interface w/Tracktion bundle looks like a great deal, but unfortunately that will have to stay on the back burner, just like the last 3 upgrades of BIAB. There's no extra money for toys or tools since the job loss.

The application presets would be a quick way to educate myself about some mixing fundamentals.

Quote:

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I'd take a crack at one of your files if you like, just for the challenge it presents. Send me a PM with a link to one of the source files if you're interested.

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I really appreciate that. That's very nice of you to offer.

I haven't posted any of them yet on my SoundCloud page besides the one Mac cleaned up for me, but that could be done pretty easily. Since SounCloud only allows MP3's and the files are currently in wma's, which would you rather work with? If it's MP3's, I'll convert one or two and post them. If it's wma's, I can email it to you.

You have a PM.

Thanks

I'd suggest not transferring wma to mp3 to attempt to master ..
if possible use the closest to the original wav file, even if it is wma.
Scott will likely be converting it back to wav to work with.

wav converted to wma converted to mp3 converted to wav and then mastered would likely show a few artifacts.

Just a suggestion on the process.
If you two need space for upload/download I can supply a sliver of storage ..

Bob,over the past year (when I had time) I have been "re-mastering" recordings for a fellow musician. The source material consists of vinyl recordings of his earlier performances over the years (1955 through 1966). I agree with Mac about going for the overall feel (your ear) and know when to stop, as there are a lot of challenges doing what we do with semi pro equipment. I have had good success using Power Tracks (PGMusic) and Spin It Again $35.00 (www.acoustica.com). I use spinit to record the source music. This software has decrackle/declick, tape hiss/hum reduction, etc. So this gives me a reasonable clean track to work from. Challenges I've had: 1955 recordings (high school choir)were at 78 rpm so I had to record at 45 rpm and use algorithms in spinit to replay back at 78 to get the original recording sound. 1961 jazz band has a pimple on it from poor storage so had to deal with "thud", again spinit has some de-noise choices that helped with preliminary noise reduction. 1963 recordings are of symphonic band consequently the dynamics are killer, in locating "tracks", again spinit will do a preliminary track location for me.
After I have the tracks recorded I run them into PT if needed, reverb, stereo bounce, etc.. This is a VERY condensed version of what is involved, I mention it because I "am-no-masterer"! That is another whole skill set. But I can do a reasonable job with the above tools. Although I haven't used realband it has de-esser, reverb, etc utiliites, same as PT. I encourage you to give it a try. The main thing is to get a good copy of your original work, take a copy of that, then experiment by running your work copy through different preset utilities, sometimes that is all that is needed. Wishing you patience, care, and good ears! DennisD

rharv,

Quote:

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I'd suggest not transferring wma to mp3 to attempt to master ..
if possible use the closest to the original wav file, even if it is wma.
Scott will likely be converting it back to wav to work with.

wav converted to wma converted to mp3 converted to wav and then mastered would likely show a few artifacts.

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I was actually getting ready to post that question when I saw your comments, so thanks for the answer to my unasked question.

I just checked SoundCloud to see what file types are accepted and it was "AIFF, WAVE, FLAC, OGG, MP2, MP3, AAC files."

Unfortunately I no longer have the wave files. I guess it's possible, (?), to use Audacity to convert the wma's to wave, but then the question becomes will that create artifacts. You guys know more about this than I do.

Can anyone suggest a good free limited site for storage that can be password protected so only folks you choose to allow in can upload or download?

For free, some people like Google Docs for just such a purpose..

rharv,

Thanks for the suggestion. That's exactly what I was looking for. I've set up an account and uploaded 3 songs.

Scott,

I've set up an account on Google Docs and uploaded 3 songs in totally different styles. Please feel free to pick whichever one you'd like to work on. They are in a wma format.

I'll PM you with the login info. Please let me know which one you choose and I'll tinker with the others. Shucks, if you're feeling frisky you can work on all three and I'll pick another one because I've got lots to choose from! Hehe.

Once again, I want to thank you for your help. There's not many forums where you'd see this happen. It speaks well of you and the overall helpfulness of the folks on the BIAB forum.

Duh……………………

It never occurred to me about the possibility of using Sonar 4 PE to open and tweak these songs. The only thing I’ve used it for in the past was to record and import audio/midi from BIAB. I didn’t know you could import audio from a wma, and then export is as a wma or MP3, (among other options), including saving it as a Cakewalk file. They say that “ignorance is bliss”, but it usually just keeps you from doing something that you should be able to do in the first place, only you didn’t know you could.

And of course, this also opens up all of the effects and presets that Sonar and various other music programs have to offer. I just have to boot into XP 32 since Sonar 4 PE won’t run on Win 7 64. What’s weird is Cakewalk Home Studio XL 2004 will run on Win 7 64.

So I’m gonna “tinker” with one of these old songs and post it for evaluation.

Scott, you have a PM.

Goggle docs has an option where you allow email addresses to see your docs. I used that to write corporate letters and let the guys at the other end revise them.

You can give permissions for viewing, editing, saving etc. very cool. And I'm not fond of big companies and the stuff that goes on but I was really early into the gmail thing which is integrated with google docs, and once I got my webpage email, my hotmail email (no longer in use btw), my net provider email, and my gmail all integrated, my life was much easier. No more spam. Or maybe on every 10 days. Yet the spam folder is full of junk, I don't look there any more, they seem to know the size of things....or think they do..

I just wanted to say that I appreciate all of the advice given by the good folks on here.

Scott listened to 3 of these old songs and gave me some tips. I also talked to Mac for a couple of hours on the phone and he gave me some further advice.

I now know the difference between "mixing" and "mastering".

Since the songs are in stereo wma files, I can only do some "mastering" on them. The "mixing" was done by me almost 30 years ago on a 4 track Tascam cassette.

I've been working on these songs for a few days now using Sonar 4 PE and I'm pleased at the improvements.

So, once again, thanks for the help.

And by the way, "Merry Christmas"! (Notice I didn't say "happy holidays"). I'm too old to be PC at this point in my life!

Merry Christmas to you too, Bob!

Thanks Pat.

I've posted one of these songs on the Users Showcase called Village Dream. I used Sonar 4 PE for remastering.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=300935&an=0&page=0#Post300935

If you are looking for simple you might try Magix Audio Cleaning Lab. I have found it to be pretty flexible when converting my accompnient cassettes to MP3 or Wave to burn to CD. I think the thing I like the best is it is pretty straight forward and simple. Cost a little bit but they do have a trial that you can use to try it out and see if it will do what you want it to.

The link is http://www.magix.com/us/audio-cleaning-lab/detail/

I have an older version at the moment but have tried the new trial. It is $49.00 but if you sign up for their newsletter you can get a $15.00 coupon I think. It says it will import WMA files.

I think some of these plugs came from Magix professional line Samplitude.

Anyway just another way to skin the cat so to speak.....

Terry

Terry,

Thanks for the tip, but I've settled on Sonar 4 PE as my "tool".

I'm getting more familiar with it and I'm getting closer to the results I wanted.

Merry Christmas!