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Journeyman
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My songwriting process starts with a set of lyrics to which I put a melody. I then put chords to the melody using my guitar or keyboard. The chords and melody fight for some time until something pleasing arises. Sometimes the chord choice changes the melody pretty drastically. In the case of The Wren, I liked the melody so much that I forced chords to fit. That is why the chorus contains a C#m7b5. After the dust has settled from the chordal/melodic skirmish, I work on the arrangement. This often involves BIAB. This arrangement started as the "Lotus 3/4" MIDI style. When working in BIAB I generate a bunch of tracks I think might fit then I pull the whole thing into Sonar and start editing and chopping. The Djembe was recorded directly into Sonar. I looped the phrases. The BIAB triangle was replaced and looped. The vocal, as you hear it, is a first take to see how everything sits together. Although beautifully sung by my loving wife, it's a pretty noisey recording (if you listen carefully you can hear background talking). It will be replaced with a quieter take. I also plan on replacing the MIDI guitar and mandolin with live tracks. There are no RealTracks in this mix. There are two mp3 files. The first as recorded: The Wren The second my lame attempt at EQ and mastering: The Wren (mastered)The lyrics are below. Any suggestions and comments welcome. Lyrics: the wren pulled from her visionless flight a song to profess the profane she beat one wing at the edge of the night yet none hear her solemn refrain Chorus she lifted her wings as high as the night and burnished the darkened sky as nightbird her cry set rise to the star sang, “Bestow birth to light have I” lost shadow laments and beckons the dark while eventide kindles divine soft radiant decree of mornings lone lark light quakes and waxes sublime a hymn she sings dauntless to dawn enchantingly pure and arcane an air that has been where no other has gone sits waiting like roses for rain
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Robb, I liked this a lot. It has a Johnny Cash/Rick Rubin type vibe to it. Very nice! The vocal is great as well.
Bob
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Journeyman
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Thanks for taking time to listen and the kind words, Bob! Although I have to admit, I'm not sure what the Johnny Cash/Rick Rubin vibe implies (never even heard of the latter). I've been out of the pop-culture loop for a number of years. I'm mostly a folky.
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Journeyman
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There are lots of good ears here...
Is the song so bad you're following the advice of mom, "If you don't have anything nice to say..."?
What didn't work?
What did you like (if anything)?
How is the mix?
Did the mastering improve or destroy the song?
I don't mind constructive comments. I have a lot to learn (and a decent day job).
Thanks,
Robb
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Hi Robb,
Your wife has a wonderfully ethereal quality to her voice. I really liked listening to her singing. I was reminded of Mary Hopkins and her folk songs back in the 60s and 70s.
Time only allowed me to listen to the "Mastered" version and I'm typing this now in case I forget. The mix and the balance sounded fine through my headphones. Every now and then, though, I found myself wondering about how an acoustic (or electronic), plucked bass would sound rather than the sustained bass (i.e. a single note on beat 1 of each bar that faded out as the bar progressed). Not that there's nothing wrong with that you have, it was simply a curiosity on my part and I mention it in case it's food for thought.
Musically, this song is very well assembled in all aspects. It is well written, well arranged and well produced. Kudos to you! At 5 minutes, though, it felt slightly longish. Have you thought about making the intro a little shorter? Lyrically, you've invented some terrifically rich word phrases: for example, "Beat one wing at the edge of the night", "morning's lone lark", "light quakes and waxes" etc. The lyricist side of me really envied your ability to come up with such phrases. They are wonderfully original and created good, strong images. At the end of the song, though, I wasn't sure of the journey that I'd been on. That could be me, though. I appreciate that in art we have the full spectrum from realism to abstract. With your work, while the genre is outside my understanding, I can feel the strong sense of musical "impressionism" that your lyrics conveyed.
Kind regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Hi Robb,
Maybe I can help since you asked. First, the disclaimer, if you're writing simply for your own pleasure and you like it - it's fine.
Otherwise, this is a poem being sung. Esoteric lyrics in poetry don't translate well into song lyrics. Most songs are written with everyday language so people can sing along and remember the lyrics easily.
The challenge in writing lyrics is to make it descriptive using conversational and common language. The more you can do this the more people will understand and relate to what your song is saying. Listen to the lyrics of your favorite songs.
Don't feel singled out. Most people coming into songwriting from a poetry background face this same issue. There are some excellent books by Jason Blume and Sheila Davis if you want to learn the craft of lyric writing. You'll likely do quite well at it if you choose to as you'll learn to channel your poetic creativity into lyrics.
Hope that helps. All the best.
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
Hi Robb,
Your wife has a wonderfully ethereal quality to her voice. I really liked listening to her singing.
She says thank you.
Quote:
I found myself wondering about how an acoustic (or electronic), plucked bass would sound rather than the sustained bass
Thanks for the thought.
Quote:
Musically, this song is very well assembled in all aspects. It is well written, well arranged and well produced. Kudos to you!
I happy to hear it worked. Thank you for the kind words.
Quote:
At 5 minutes, though, it felt slightly longish. Have you thought about making the intro a little shorter?
Yes... and likely will if anything more becomes of the song.
Quote:
Lyrically, you've invented some terrifically rich word phrases [snip]
They are wonderfully original and created good, strong images.
Thank you again. I love playing with words. It is doubtless the most interesting aspect of songwriting for me.
Quote:
At the end of the song, though, I wasn't sure of the journey that I'd been on. [snip] while the genre is outside my understanding, I can feel the strong sense of musical "impressionism" that your lyrics conveyed.
At the request of my wife, the lyric was written to leave an esoteric impression. Perhaps a feeling of, "Something mysterious just happened".
Thanks for the thoughtful comments!
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
...if you're writing simply for your own pleasure and you like it - it's fine.
I can't think of another reason for writing but my hope is others will enjoy it too. Else, I wouldn't share.
Quote:
Otherwise, this is a poem being sung.
Yes. That was more or less the intent of this song.
Quote:
Esoteric lyrics in poetry don't translate well into song lyrics.
No translation needed; it was meant to be esoteric. I hoped to create a feeling in the listener.
L. Rosenblatt argues that act of reading literature involves interaction between the reader and the text. Each "transaction" is unique insomuch as the reader will bring his own experience to the text. A written work (which she often refers to as a "poem") does not have the same meaning for everyone.
I think the same is true of music. Each listener brings their unique background knowledge and beliefs to the act of listening.
Quote:
Most songs are written with everyday language so people can sing along and remember the lyrics easily.
True, but I don't write (or listen to) pop music. The closest I come to that is folk and bluegrass.
Quote:
The challenge in writing lyrics is to make it descriptive using conversational...
I would agree with one change in wording. The challenge in writing ^pop^ lyrics is to...
Quote:
Listen to the lyrics of your favorite songs.
Is there For Honest Poverty
Flow Gently Sweet Afton
Highland Mary
Green Grows the Laurel
Roll on Silver Moon
Shenandoha
Quote:
Don't feel singled out.
Quite the opposite! I appreciate the feedback.
Quote:
Most people coming into songwriting from a poetry background...
I do write poetry. However, most of my lyrics are far less “poetic” then those of “The Wren”. I typically write family music with a touch of bluegrass and gospel
Quote:
Hope that helps. All the best.
Thank you again for your feedback.
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Apprentice
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Robb,
My puter was acting up the other day when I went to take a listen - ' thought I would try again today on my other machine and glad that I did.
Your wife has a beautiful voice for this type of song. The mastered version is coming along well. I am just using earbuds at the moment - not picking up the noise you mentioned. I did kinda a wonder when the vocals were going to start - so maybe a shorter intro.
I say you've got a keeper with a few tweaks.
Thanks for sharing
The Powderman
Learning something new everyday
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
Robb,
Your wife has a beautiful voice for this type of song.
My DW says Thank you!
Quote:
The mastered version is coming along well.
Quote:
I did kinda a wonder when the vocals were going to start - so maybe a shorter intro.
Yes... a shorter intro is likely... or maybe a more intriging instrumental?
Quote:
I say you've got a keeper with a few tweaks. Thanks for sharing
Thank you for the listen and the feedback.
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Hi Robb,Music is for all types of people.Yours is very folksy and there are those who love this style of music I do.For some its an acquired taste for others they will never like it that goes for all kinds of music.I love Sinatra but a good friend of mine thinks he is overrated and even argues that he cant sing.Kate Bush when she came on the scene had a lot of people scratching their heads but she proved a lot of them wrong and her music has stood the test of time.Keep writing what you feel... if it gives you pleasure then Im sure there are others who after listening to your music might enjoy it too.Cheers Frankie
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